Osbourne says no to currency union.

JY on sources I said it was almost certainly from a copyrighted / private subscription source. The key point here is this hasn’t been agreed like all the other massive issues. It really is a leap into the dark and potentially off a precipice like the Quebec piece I linked to suggests.

If they vote yes we will still call it Britain, the United Kingdom and the flag will still have blue bits in it.

Scotland isn’t a country and neither is England, Wales or Northern Ireland

Have you been to the commonwealth games or watched any International sports?

Its a United Kingdom – there is a clue in the name

A country is a country if the people living there think it is.

Not true I’m afraid. There are lots of definitions, yours is only one. And not the one that matters, really.

Scotland is no less of a place for not being a country though, don’t get me wrong. Wales isn’t a country either.

jambalaya – Member
If they vote yes we will still call it Britain, the United Kingdom and the flag will still have blue bits in it.

I’ve started washing my flag. The job should be finished by Thursday night… 🙂

molgrips – Member
‘A country is a country if the people living there think it is.”
Not true I’m afraid. There are lots of definitions, yours is only one. And not the one that matters, really.

It is the one that matters. Anything else is oppression and often met with resistance.

I don’t think you have any idea what oppression is

I see ‘Britain’ as a geographical term. Scotland is in Britain, just as France is in Europe

All you have done is define yourself as a Nationalist. It is not an argument that does anything to convince people who are not Nationalists in any way.

Wow, got a little darker in here. Feeling distinctly unwelcome.

do you need a cuddle what about a song

Epicyclo – I wouldn’t bother washing it any more, I think you’ve got it just about right, a flag that represents the absolute mess the independent voters are going to get us in!

Scotland or whatever it is is very dark at the moment. I hate to say it but everyone is getting a bit too emotional and I think this will lead to people getting hurt on Friday. I have heard of people reporting both sides to the police for aggressive behaviour….

it isn’t important where you come from, what matters is where we are going together as a nation” Bashir Ahmed – born Amiritsar India, SNP msp until he died

It will be fine either way

imnotverygood – Member
‘I see ‘Britain’ as a geographical term. Scotland is in Britain, just as France is in Europe’
All you have done is define yourself as a Nationalist….

Well I’m not French or Greek or anything else, I’m Scottish. Do tell me that it’s not England this and England that in England.

I’m amazed how quickly Nationalist has become a dirty word when a country wishes to exercise its democratic right to remove itself from an increasingly toxic union. Nothing to do with English Nationalists seeing their milch cow disappearing is it?

molgrips – Member
Wow, got a little darker in here. Feeling distinctly unwelcome.

It’s starting to look much brighter here.

People are starting to entertain hopes that we are not going to suffer the wholesale loss of another generation of our young because of the lack of opportunity here.

But you’re still welcome.

Well I’m not French or Greek or anything else, I’m Scottish. Do tell me that it’s not England this and England that in England.

Have a look in your passport. If in doubt, that’s what I do. The point is, it doesn’t matter to me all that much. If it does to you, well there y’go, but it is a self-perception you are putting forward and is therefore unconvincing to anyone who doesn’t share your views.

I’m amazed how quickly Nationalist has become a dirty word when a country wishes to exercise its democratic right to remove itself from an increasingly toxic union.

Certainly been a dirty word for some time where an EU referendum is involved.

imnotverygood – Member
…but it is a self-perception you are putting forward and is therefore unconvincing to anyone who doesn’t share your views.

Quick, get on the blower, you may save a few million people getting out of bed early on Thursday to vote…

A country is acountry if the people living there think it is.

I suggest you try putting “Scotland” as country of birth when going through Australian immigration and see whether they agree with you (I’m sure that also applies in other places)

If we’re sharing out all of the UKs assets on a non-geographical basis then I think the 9% of London Bridge that includes the middle section should be declared Scottish territory. There will be a (reasonable) toll charge levied for using it (each way, of course).

I’m amazed how quickly Nationalist has become a dirty word when a country wishes to exercise its democratic right to remove itself from an increasingly toxic union.

TBH ‘Nationalist’ has pretty negative connotations to me. Whether it is Serbian Nationalists, Russian Nationalists, Japanese Nationalists, whatever, never seem to be particularly nice people. The BNP?
To me the term Nationalist implies people who have a small-minded loyalty to where they were born and a tendency to fear and blame human beings they think of as ‘others’. It is a mindest which buys into xenophobic myth-making and a sense of that ‘history’ matters more than the present.

Wow, got a little darker in here

yeah I think this thread has gone pretty sour, when defaced flags are getting posted maybe it’s all getting a bit low level and provocative. still only a couple more days of it all… hopefully!

People are starting to entertain hopes that we are not going to suffer the wholesale loss of another generation of our young because of the lack of opportunity here.

but the lack of opportunity as you put it is a much more localised thing within Scotland, as it is in rUK

or was the local Scottish employer I talked to who warned my team that we would struggle to recruit staff “because everyone who wants a job has one”
lying to us/ making it up?

big_n_daft – Member

or was the local Scottish employer I talked to who warned my team that we would struggle to recruit staff “because everyone who wants a job has one” lying to us/ making it up?

Of course he was. FFS.

People are starting to entertain hopes that we are not going to suffer the wholesale loss of another generation of our young because of the lack of opportunity here.

You have a large amount of faith in basically nothing. You must have a correspondingly large chip on your shoulder about Westminster.

But you’re still welcome.

Don’t feel it. I’m worried I’ll become a foreigner where I wasn’t before.

I’m amazed how quickly Nationalist has become a dirty word

That’s because it’s the opposite of unity, and it’s inherently negative. You look at your neighbours or even compatriots and think ‘we don’t want to be with them’. Plus over the years nationalism has been strongly associated with fighting.

Actually, I’ll edit that: When a territory has been occupied against the will of the people who’ve then been oppressed, that’s not good. However don’t you dare pretend that’s what happend in Scotland!

@ Big_n_daft I think your employer is telling your team to do more work for no more money 🙂

@molgrips for me nationalism means taking control of our own affairs into our own hands

aracer – Member
“A country is acountry if the people living there think it is.”
I suggest you try putting “Scotland” as country of birth when going through Australian immigration and see whether they agree with you (I’m sure that also applies in other places)

I have been doing that for 40 years.

bigjim – Member
yeah I think this thread has gone pretty sour, when defaced flags are getting posted maybe it’s all getting…

Surely worrying about the flag is being “Nationalistic”.

Anyhow, not defacing it, just washing the imperialistic bloodstains out… 🙂

http://theporridge.co.uk/post/97200316543/im-shiteing-myself-by-alex-salmond

@molgrips for me nationalism means taking control of our own affairs into our own hands

Nationalism means you think they’re not already in your own hands.

Thought experiment – are my affairs in my own hands? What about Junkyard or binners?

I cannot speak for binners But I dont control you 😉

I know how molgrips likes a good wiki article. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countries_of_the_United_Kingdom

ninfan – Member
http://theporridge.co.uk/post/97200316543/im-shiteing-myself-by-alex-salmond

I’ll bet he is! Poor chap has aged 10 years in the last few months. 😆

Hmmmm. I have noticed that molgrips & binners never ever post at exactly the same time. 😕

Now, here’s a good article by a well respected author:

Ewan Morrison – YES: Why I Joined Yes and Why I Changed to No

Not really sure what the point of your thought experiment is molgrips. My point is that ethnicity is of no importance to me. Further to that all the people of scotland could vote for any party in a westminster election and still get a government of different party depending on how voting went in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
I guess you are going to tell me that Scotland is not a country and that its citizens wherever they may have been born are not a nation. Thats something well just have to disagree about.

A good and astute article, by the looks of it.

Not really sure what the point of your thought experiment is molgrips.

Just answer the questions, if you can?

Or, to rephrase – why is a nation special?

This article is by Ben Thompson founder of the devoplus group who is considering voting yes.
Ben Thompson in The Guardian

Since I dont know your circumstances or Binners or Junkyards I cant say.

Tomorrow’s Better Together Theme Tune: