[Closed] One for the tubeless doubters...

...and of course it will be so much easier to patch the tyre than it would be to replace an inner tube...

I hope, like a proper bloke, you stuck the screw in your misc screw box? It might come in handy one day 🙂

I'm always amazed what can get sealed by tubeless setups. Only time I've had flats have been when my jizz dried up and from a gash in sidewall, and even that held air for a while until it really started to open up.

What size is it?

Are there still [i]tubeless doubters[/i]??

[i]and of course it will be so much easier to patch the tyre than it would be to replace an inner tube..[/i]
I think it's pretty much the same in terms of difficulty.

I think more importantly....without tubeless.....he would have to do both tyre and tube.... 🙄

I don't believe in tubeless, I think its done with mirrors. 😉

I heard tubeless didn't work on 650b.

What size is it?

About an inch long, couldn't tell you what width but the kind you find in flatpack chipboard cupboards and the like. Big enough anyway!

...and of course it will be so much easier to patch the tyre than it would be to replace an inner tube...

No different to replacing a tube really. Only I can do it at home, at my own leisure, cos the tubeless setup allowed me to finish the ride without touching the screw!

...and of course it will be so much easier to patch the tyre than it would be to replace an inner tube...

Not that even patching its that hard, the main point is that he didn't have to do it on the trail. Not had to do a trail side puncture repair in the 12 months ive gone tubeless. Wish i had converted sooner. I cant think of a single advantage of running tubes.

I have my doubts but am willing to persevere, didn't help when I got a 1cm gash in the tyre on the 2nd tubeless ride & a big tyre bump after crashing on the uptonogood ride last weekend, thing is with a tubed tyre you can repair the tyre & the tube on the ride - with a tubeless tyre you can stick a tube in the tyre there & then but you still have to effect a repair when you get home to go back to tubeless. Main problem I have at the moment is tyre roll & lack of edge grip, maybe just the combination of rim & tyres (2.35" nobby nick tubeless ready) so will keep trying but am yet to be convinced :(.

You wouldn't even need to bother patching the tyre; that's a perfect candidate for using a Weldtite 'sticky string' repair - you wouldn't even have to unmount the tyre.

DezB - Member
Are there still tubeless doubters??

and of course it will be so much easier to patch the tyre than it would be to replace an inner tube..
I think it's pretty much the same in terms of difficulty.

Actually, if you have one of these and some C02, you're back riding a lot quicker than the dude with inner tubes - http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=7971

I wouldn't go back to tubes if they were free. YMMV and all that.

Are your trails building sites?

Just a shame its discontinued!

I don't use C02 if there's sealant in there already; it can freeze/congeal it into a solid, heavy out-of-balancing lump. I only use C02 to seat tyres tubelessly if I can't do it with the track pump, then vent all the CO2 before inserting sealant through the valve.

I don't use C02 if there's sealant in there already; it can freeze/congeal it into a solid,

But it will defrost, so once thawed you can inflate the tyre again to seal any holes?

It didn't defrost for me; it congealed into one sticky lump that clung to one side of the wheel. Haven't mixed C02 and sealant since - it works for me!

Am I the only belts and braces one? I go tubeless and haven't had a puncture in 3 years,but carry a tyre repair kit,2 xtubes,and a tube repair kit.I have nightmare memories of an autumn Polaris on Exmoor,where I used 2 tubes and 2 full repair kits,as they'd cut the blackthorn hedges the week before.

I've never had an issue with co2 and used lots of it. Are you sure your sealant wasn't old to start with?

butlerjamesp - Member
Just a shame its discontinued!

POSTED 30 MINUTES AGO #

Innovations do one as well. Have a google.

Stan's don't recommend use of CO2 with sealant. You [b]can[/b] get Argon cartridges if you look, though.

Tyre took a roofing nail on Thu; probably would have stayed up with CO2 if I hadn't been a quarter of a mile from home and walked the rest. Went up OK when I got home with track pump.

I had a nail like that in my front tyre a couple of weeks ago, with about 30 miles to go on the South Downs Way. I pulled it out and the tyre went down in an instant. However, after a few minutes of pumping (with a crap road pump), it sealed. I completed the ride with no problem and have done about 100 miles since. Still sealed and not losing any air. Had similar in the back tyre with a huge thorn about a year ago. Still up!

Tubeless is ace!

I've never had an issue with co2 and used lots of it. Are you sure your sealant wasn't old to start with?

It was Effetto Caffélatex; maybe less tolerant than others.

I took a longer screw in a tubed tyre a few weeks ago and it was the clunk clunk clunk as it bashed the rim once per rev that worried me. Not for many revs obviously! Surprised you didn't feel it mboy.

I use stans as I've found it to be the best sealant and used it aplenty with co2. In fact, some tyres have been seated and filled with co2, with maybe a small top up from a track pump. No issues at all 😕

bigjim - Member
my jizz dried up and from a gash

😕

😆

I have nightmare memories of an autumn Polaris on Exmoor,where I used 2 tubes and 2 full repair kits,as they'd cut the blackthorn hedges the week before.

Before tubeless presumably? That's exactly the sort of situation where tubeless means you shouldn't have any punctures to repair. Personally I still carry 2 tubes but not a repair kit any more.

Aracer,yes exactly,since I ent tubeless,I find thorns broken off in the old tyres when I change them.

I cant think of a single advantage of running tubes.

2 punctures in 5000km. Cost me a total of €6. Actually it didn't, cos I got those tubes in an order where I needed to spend a few more euros to save €10 on shipping, so they were effectively free.

You don't hear any stories about people with tubes trying to get the tyre to seat, and bodging inflators from pop bottles, etc.

In effect I've done stage one of going tubeless...
1. Put tube in to seat and shape the tyre, inflate and leave for a while
2. undo step 1, and put slop inside (not got around to this yet)

I might pull my finger out and do step 2 one of these days, but can't see any urgent reason to do so.

edit: oh - should have mentioned, they're Schwalbe tyres most of the time too, which everyone knows are made of tissuepaper and shred to pieces if they see a stone. (NB the 2 flats were the one time I used Maxxis).

Dunno cant really help you but if it ain't working for you, then you're probably doing it wrong. It's been 2 years since I needed an inner tube and that's only due the sidewall splitting. Seating issues are very easily overcome. It's all about technique and finding the right tyre and sealant combo for you and the area you ride 90+% of the time in.

Oops double post.

I was 3/4 of a way round the Glen Tilt ride and round a chuffing great nail in my X-King Racesport. Tyre was still up, but loosing a little air, I used that tyre for a Relentless 24 without patching it.

Just gone tubeless. Spesh 2bliss tyres on stans arch ex. Fitted the tyres and pumped up with my usual trackpump. No dramas, seated/sealed perfectly.

Hmmm. I was out on Thursday and at the bottom of the last descent found my rear tyre half deflated and sealant spraying out from a decent sized hole, looked like Dale Winton had been hanging out the back of me. Hole wouldn't seal at the trailside but did on the half mile to the pub. Pumped it up to 40psi the next day and after a bit of bubbling it sealed and has done since, not ridden yet. So do I need to repair the tyre or just wing it?

And whilst I'm rambling another thing - watched a few Youtube set up guides on tubeless and some show pulling the tape tight so it seals on the inner shoulders of the rim with a void over the spoke holes and others show the tape pushed down into the rim bed on top of the spoke holes. I didn't have any luck with the latter as the tape just bunched and didn't form a seal, the former sealed first time but after about a month I got the bike out of the garage to find the tyre deflated and removing it showed the tape had detached from the rim over about 6". So am I doing it right, the thought of that sort of instant deflation at speed isn't pleasant, relying on about 1mm wide adhesion on each side seems a bit dodgy now that this has happened.

Stans say to pull the rim tape tight, so that's what I did. I wouldn't bother patching if it's sealed, my rear tyre has done a year with a hole that I never thought would seal, but did.

I was just about to ask the same question. My lad hit a big square edge today and put a 5mm split in the middle of the tyre. Took ages to seal and was about to give up, but has eventually sealed ( last time I ride with a Topeak road rocket, just won't shift enough air for big nobblies). So, do I need to patch it or just shove more stans in and take my m:part pump with me next time?

What a coincidence. After posting on this thread, went out for a ride on my only non-tubeless bike (crosser) and got a flippin puncture. First one in years! And guess what.. one of the few times I haven't had a tube & pump with me.. 🙁 luckily wasn't far from home.

Are there still tubeless doubters??

EDIT: well except you apparently 😉

PS I wrote that hours ago and forget to send it

Using CO2 with sealant doesn't freeze it, it actually brakes down the molecular structure which causes it to clump up into boogers.

I might be a tubeless doubter as i still use tubes. If i suffered from punctures a lot more than i do i might consider it, but so far i can't see any benefits from changing now. Weight is similar and the ability to run lower pressures isn't enough to convince me. I think the rear tyre especially wouldn't stay on the rim for long if I dropped my pressure much more.

All tubeless riders I know carry an inner tube

I carry an inner tube, but expect to have to use it far less often than if I had inner tubes in my tyres. The last couple of times I've had my spare out has been to lend to other people who do still have tubes in their tyres. Does that make me a doubter?

Regarding the weight thing - my bike weighed 31 lb 6 oz on the shop scales with continental 29er tubes at near enough bang on 300g each. Swapped to tubeless with no other changes, 2 cups of Stans per wheel, 31 lb 2oz on the same scales! (We are a strange lot with our metric/imperial mash up). Got to say I'm not convinced yet.

Dickyboy
after crashing on the uptonogood ride last weekend

ok, i'm stumped, where did you manage to find a crashing location on that ride 😉

Went back to DH tubes with slime recently. Less punctures, the tyres (side walls) last longer and you're not restricted to certain tire rim latex combs. Slime seals all the same stuff tubeless systems do and lasts about 1,000 times longer with any tube and rim you like. tubeless still pinch flat, you just pinch flat the side walls or split the treadinstead.

Went back to DH tubes with slime recently

At which point we come back to the weight and rolling resistance issues. I guess if you're pinch flatting the sidewalls of your tyres maybe that is better for you.

Actually, if you have one of these and some C02, you're back riding a lot quicker than the dude with inner tubes - http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=7971

These kits are great. Just don't make the schoolboy error of not checking the tube of glue for it drying out over the 3year period since you last used it.

Only a numpty would do that......... :}

Stans was totally rubbish but Bounty Juice seems to work.
Have a numerous blue dots on my tyre where I assume its doing its job.

davosaurusrex - Member

Regarding the weight thing - my bike weighed 31 lb 6 oz on the shop scales with continental 29er tubes at near enough bang on 300g each. Swapped to tubeless with no other changes, 2 cups of Stans per wheel, 31 lb 2oz on the same scales! (We are a strange lot with our metric/imperial mash up). Got to say I'm not convinced yet.

I'm not very convinced by your scales tbh! Something's gone wrong somewhere, you should have had 3-4 times as much of a saving. Which is still hardly lifechanging to be fair.

Not had to do a trail side puncture repair in the 12 months ive gone tubeless.

I haven't had to do one in the last 3+ years running tubes 🙂

Well I'm a tubeless convert but I still see the problems with it.
It can fail - if you can't seat it you need a tube to continue - I have a tubed rear due to this. I will change it when I get round to it.
Sealant isn't cheap - I know I could make my own by beating off into a bottle of glitter and adding some rocking horse hair but not really got round to that. When you loose a tyre you loose the sealant too, and it needs replacing.
Changing tyres, I now use a spare front wheel for days when I don't fancy the ardents. - I can change a tyre in 5 mins in a car park, not going to start that with tubelsess
Some tyre rim combos don't work - well thats nice isn't it

I will carry on using it but carrying tubes and pump.

Last year I found a 1 inch long rusty nail or piece of chicken wire stuck in my tubeless tire. Stan's sealed it up; I never knew that it was there till I went to change the tire after the tread was worn down...

There are a lot of thorns where I ride, and I've run Stan's for many years.

I'm tubeless curious, but reading this one thing strikes me. I can see benefits for small punctures like thorns etc, but if something puts a big ass hole in your tyre and the sealant works as it should and you don't know its there, then i'm not sure that is a good thing. I'm not completely happy with the idea of a plug of sealant plugging a big hole when i'm clattering down some hill at speed. If it were to suddenly give way or work loose then the results could be nasty. I know its all if, buts and maybe's, but sealant addressing small puncture holes (pin pricks) is one thing, but sealing big ass holes from 6" nails or screws for a long period of time over many rides? i'm not so sure. In these cases i'd much rather lose air from the tyre so I know there is something amiss, then fix it properly.

I guess it boils down to personal experiences. I really don't have that many punctures so don't see it as a major hassle. I'm not sure what benefits going tubeless would bring me.

I haven't had to do one in the last 3+ years running tubes

That might be so but i wouldn't say it's typical for most riders running tubes. I know it wasn't the case for me. Don't know where you ride, but where I ride you won't be able to avoid thorns for that long, and then there's punch flats on top. With the group I ride with there's probably 1 tube repair over ride on average. When I changed tyres a few months back the tyre that came off had over a dozen large thorns in it. That would have meant at least a dozen trail side repairs.

I can only say from my experience, but after running tubes for years before going tubeless, I wouldn't even consider going back.

Tubeless for the peaks was a revelation, we would regularly have a puncture each every 10 miles or so. Infuriating.

The whole group is tubeless now, only flat I remember was when I'd not topped up my sealant for months

Did you ride with that in your tyre, after discovering it?

Brave, it could have done damage to the spoke bed/rim.

I haven't had to do one in the last 3+ years running tubes

I've been tubeless for over 10 years and still yet to have half as many punctures (where I have to stop and put a tube in) as I had in the year before I switched. At least one of those punctures in the year before I switched cost me a race win. There's been at least one occasion since I've been running tubeless where I've won a race when a potential puncture has sealed and I've not had to stop (there may be more I'm not aware of).

Of course other people's experiences may vary, but don't tell me it's a waste of time.

wobbliscott - Member

I'm tubeless curious, but reading this one thing strikes me. I can see benefits for small punctures like thorns etc, but if something puts a big ass hole in your tyre and the sealant works as it should and you don't know its there, then i'm not sure that is a good thing. I'm not completely happy with the idea of a plug of sealant plugging a big hole when i'm clattering down some hill at speed.

Seems logical enough, but think about it- if it does happen, all you get if it fails is the same puncture you would have had in the first place, there's no extra risk there.

I fitted a pair of 650 hans d's to a pair of wheels using Joe's no flat's yesterday. Inflated perfectly with no seating problems. The fluid stayed in without any bubbling at the bead at all. No leaks. This was with the rubber rim strips. Very impressed.

Preaching to the converted here. Took a run of punctures for me to be persuaded and I wish I did it years ago!

Do you reckon tubeless works better with 650 than with 26", martinxyz? Or is the big advantage the difficulty of getting hold of 650 tubes?

I repaired the sidewall of my Racing Ralph today which had a fairly large hole it. Tried the Weldtite external repair plug but it kept shooting out over 20psi. Had to use the internal one in the end which didn't want to stick due to not much rubber in the thin sidewalls but eventually worked. I also finally worked out how to pump up the RRs using only a track pump which I could only previously do on HDs. Basically stand the wheel up with valve at at bottom so the tyre below the valve is compressed, then goes up easily.

You'll not get me riding with inner tubes on a mountain bike again by choice. Tubeless works so well for me and where I ride. I did slash my rear tyre (Racing Ralph), which is too thin to be fair and I expected to break it, on a trip to Cwm Carn. But I stuck one of those anchovies in and a blast of CO2 and was away again. Didn't even have to take the wheel off the bike. I had to do a proper fix for it this weekend as the anchovie slithered loose (after a couple of months), and I simply unseated the tyre, patched it properly (with a heavier duty worm and rubber solution) and inflated it again with my track pump. I'll probably regret typing this but for the simplicity and ride feel alone tubeless is so worth it. Up there with suspension forks and disc brakes for me.

Love tubeless and have now finally converted all my bikes to it...

Pros... Lack of punctures (biggest advantage over everything) feel and feedback from the tyre when riding with lower pressures.

Cons...Flints ruin tyres and tubeless can't cope with big slashes, the initial conversion cost for tape,valves and Stan's man fat or whatever it is you use in the tyres.

I bought a stans crest wheelset a couple months ago but just carried on with tubes as i couldn't be bothered messing about with all the sealant etc 😳

I've had a fair few pinch punctures lately though which has finally made me decide to go tubeless, I've only torn one sidewall in the last 6-7 years so hopefully it'll work for the type of riding i do.

Cons...Flints ruin tyres and tubeless can't cope with big slashes

What would have happened if you'd had a tube in? I do wonder if slashed tyres aren't somewhat over-reported for tubeless users because they don't get other punctures, whereas if you're using tubes they're just another variety. No particular reason why a slash should ruin a tyre either - generally such things are repairable (I'd not particularly want to ride a tyre with a big slash with a tube in without getting it repaired).

What would have happened if you'd had a tube in?

I do wonder if slashed tyres aren't somewhat over-reported for tubeless users because they don't get other punctures

No particular reason why a slash should ruin a tyre either - generally such things are repairable

Nah, I think it was the stickiness of the initial Joe's tape coupled with fresh tyres and rims.. and the rubber rim strips. I would say the rubber rim strips were the biggest part of it all going together a breeze and you know what? I forgot to check which size of tubes the bike company used! Customers bike. He's now got the tubes for spares.