New Scottish Enduro Association Launched: Could you be part of It?

The future of enduro in the UK is looking uncertain, with major event organisers Tweedlove and Kev Duckworth of PMBA hanging up their clipboards for t …

By stwhannah

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New Scottish Enduro Association Launched: Could you be part of It?

The future of Enduro has been the subject of a lot of conversation up here, so this is good to see. Hopefully no one is negative about this. If they are then they need to say why and get involved.

That said, there are a lot of challenges with organiser costs, event locations and course design, as well as land owner liabilities to name a few. All that and more has to be brought to the fore, so everyone, especially the riders are aware of the challenges and differing opinions.

Hopefully we end up with good events with good spin off’s to local economies.

I’ll be the first negative voice then!

As a regular volunteer at Tweedlove and now a trainee commissaire for DH, I’ll not be keen to involve myself with Dmbins after their failure to support Tweedlove in any way in recent years.

I hope there is a future for enduro in Scotland, but not like this- its difficult to see what is being provided from that article?

You need to qualify this, “I’ll not be keen to involve myself with Dmbins after their failure to support Tweedlove in any way”.

Coming from the other end of the country and doing the same as you, I do see them support enduro, despite event organisers being private companies. Not saying its perfect but remember they have a remit, a budget, guidelines and boundaries they cannot cross. They are only the facilitators in getting this association going.

So. come on. Be constructive. Say what you would do and how you would run it all.

( Not right here though. I’m away out to do some trail maintenance)

OK- Tweedlove have been in regular contact regarding funding support over a number of years and got no help at all. Even requests to have their events publicised on the DMBinS website were ignored to my knowledge.

DMBinS recently paid for two youtubers to visit Scotland- they were riding in the vicinity of Tweedloves final GT7 weekender and avoided the event completely. That, to me is a massive snub of the organisation.

On one side of the coin, yes they are facilitating a new association, but on the other hand, why should they have the right to choose the board of an independent association?

The thing that gets me is that the remaining organisers in Scotland have been asking DMBinS and Scottish Cycling for a meeting about how enduro is taken forward for weeks/months – but have been totally ignored. That group also did a survey off their own backs to find out what the riders thought. DMBinS not interested in this either. Those organisers, who’ve put their souls into it for years, must be raging at this level of disrespect from ‘national’ and ‘representative’ bodies. They were also trying to get organised to host a round or two of the British Series but as that’s not BC/Scottish Cycling that was prob ignored too.
The rumour is that DMBinS funding is running out soon and their jobs may go, so maybe they’re using ‘saving enduro’ as a Trojan horse to get funding to save their own bacon. At the expense of the existing organisers whose jobs will likely now be lost. DMBinS is not fit for purpose, and this is a shameful way for a publicly-funded organisation to behave. They should never have planned or announced this without consulting the existing organisers first.

There’s something off about this, I can’t quite work out what it is yet.  It’s something along the lines of an organisation with paid staff asking for people to work for free with no real stake in the outcome to rescue something that they haven’t supported while people were trying to make a success of it.

I’m really having to bite my tongue over this, but to me this is pure hypocrisy from DMBinS, given that prior to their share of Tweedlove’s announcement they had never shared or supported a single enduro event in Scotland.

If you want a sense of the feeling in the Tweed Valley, have a search for when they shared the TweedLove announcement, and have a read of the comments. I’m still surprised that they never deleted the share.

@mtnboarder if you want another rant, you should chat to the key Ae Trail Association guys about the influencer tour.

I’m now going to be diplomatic and resist saying anymore publicly.

I dread to think what they got up to at Ae, but the tour was a great way to publicise the little known trails of Scottish mtbing like Heartbreak Ridge and Tarland, which are sadly underpromoted!

Someone has kindly stepped up and set up an instagram page for the new association (not me), so things are starting to happen (may not be entirely serious).

The influencers tour had limited time so they could only visit limited locations, some places would always miss out this time. But can we not celebrate what they did do rather than focusing on what they didn’t do? They shone a bright light on Scottish trails for a vast global audience.

i think people who are being ultra critical of DMBInS should take the time to better understand their remit, their budgets and their wide range of work. There is a lot going on beyond enduro.

One thing they did do was batter down a popular walkers path with poor sightlines at high speed. They might have had spotters, but most wont bother.

 

I’m happy to remain critical until my concerns are addressed. There may be stuff going on beyond enduro, but this initiative seems to be little effort on their part beyond self publicity. No funding, no mention of assistance beyond choosing who holds posts, and cutting loose after a year.

Well some may feel that past failures and oversights will stop them thinking on the positive “better late than never”.  Enduro needs help, all help is good, targeted, collaborative and focused help more people working towards a common goal the better.

I’m sure some will feel that monies are better spent where they want, and would not do certain marketing things over others, but at some point you just have to pick something and commit – the influencer tour will generate interest; better than it not happening, and reaching a wide demographic.

But knowing how much work some of those roles are, it would be hard to fill everything with purely volunteers, at least long term. However people are out there who will, I started PMBA Enduro as a volunteer until I realised the workload and had to quit the day job to continue.

Definitely agree that DMBINS have completely failed scottish enduro in the past, to the point they have to have been actively ignoring it, it can’t just be negligence, any interaction was absolutely token. I’m too much on the outside to even hazard why, there could be legitimate reasons or at least they might think there are. Or maybe not.

I have no idea what it really means, today. I mean, if they can provide real support for a new organiser- help with relationships, with funding, with rulebooks and insurance and volunteers and visibility and all teh other challenges that mean you have to be mental to run a mountain bike race, that’s good. Will it? Will the same (presumably) money and energy that’ll be expended at this top level and the attention that it gathers draw away from the people who would actually get it done? And at what point do we end up with Enduro Organisation and literally no organisations for them to organise?

Or do we just clone aaron muckmedden?

(they mention supporting the SXC and SDA, I’d be dead curious to learn what that means in practice- I guess that could prove I’m being overcynical. My own impression of the SDA side anyway is that they’re still ploughing their own furrow their own way, with BC comms etc. I know nothing of SXC)

Seems that organisers really are not happy – and as above they had no idea that DMBIS were doing this. Looks like this could unravel.

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=966905032123761&set=a.458470322967237

Quoted for those who don’t have FB

Doon Tha Brae Events

Scottish Cycling and Developing Mountain Biking in Scotland (DMBinS) today announced the set up of a new Scottish Enduro Association. This was a surprise to us and many other enduro event organisers across Scotland, given they hadn’t talked to us before deciding that this was the right response to the current uncertainty around the future of enduro in Scotland. That’s disappointing, as we have been asking for an event organisers meeting without any response, meaning our views and more than 800 of you who have completed the survey, haven’t been considered before deciding on a course of action. Given that, we feel that now is a good time to share publicly the survey results. Hopefully we and, through the survey, you will still have a say in how things develop.

Meantime our initial reaction is that whilst the return of a national Scottish enduro series would be a welcome step, there doesn’t seem to be much in the proposal to support grass roots local enduro racing, which is where most riders start their racing careers and compete for fun and to be part of the riding community.

Below are the results from the ‘State of Enduro Racing in Scotland 2024’, in the forms result where is says ‘xxx more responses are hidden’ these haven’t been hidden by us and is a limitation of Google Forms due to the amount of responses, you can find a full list of responses on the sheets link.

Forms Survey Results – https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10DfGN_Cf6dxpNYejvmb3hDJ9xrvb0m82khcO4NwcXQw/edit?fbclid=IwY2xjawGazMRleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHVwdoyI-vbzYzcheKkxl-HFJ8BhNESVzUWiUgDugzT60oykVebNV34_DJQ_aem_fF5q4EL8jaQSelJa25dzig&gid=80714908#gid=80714908

Sheets Survey Results – https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1AJAwEBfcnh_MzcWceYSQoH-Q3-lhNs8lvPv-gieZobQ/viewanalytics?fbclid=IwY2xjawGazMJleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHUChNH6crVwH6fkiEZ85S3zfIqIGBZTxj–Wn2gcVIaSHJemfk_aDuAAWA_aem_Vzes4LVC8up5Kn8fgGfdXw

I also note that DMBInS post says Scottish Cycling is involved – which may explain a lot….

DMBinS are a part of Scottish Cycling, hence their involvement.

I did ask on the announcement about whether any financial support was available and was ignored, as seem to be policy at DMBinS when tricky questions are asked.

It’s been blatantly obvious DMBinS have been absolute grifters for years

They launched that “centre of excellence” thing for folk with inventions and innovations to offer them support

As far as I’ve seen not one single thing has come out of it. If it has, they’ve done an abysmal job at publicising it

Spend 5 minutes talking to some of the nearby businesses in the industry to get their views on what exactly DMBinS contributes

I did ask on the announcement about whether any financial support was available and was ignored, as seem to be policy at DMBinS when tricky questions are asked.

DMBInS are halfway through hosting a very busy conference right now so not in a great position to respond to comments. Hopefully they’ll get to that next week.

Not too busy to be constantly posting about how good the conference is though…

DMBins – what a colossal waste of money, won’t be long before it goes down the pan…

One thing they did do was batter down a popular walkers path with poor sightlines at high speed. They might have had spotters, but most wont bother.

Ah, not just me that thought that was a really stupid idea to do that…and then let ‘em put the video online..FFS! I live a couple of minutes ride away from that path, so know it really well both from riding and walking it. For those not familiar with area, it’s right on the edge of a couple of big housing estates, on the edge of the town – and you can see the houses when you descend the path. Because of this proximity to housing, the path is really popular with people walking their dogs up there. As DMBins are only based in Glentress they must be aware of the nature of the path and it’s local setting – talk about inadvertently shoving a stick in your own spokes!
All it’d need is for one of our dog loving anti-cyclist neighbours to see this online and I can see the local council getting bombarded with complaints.

I’ve also raced and volunteered on some of the Tweedlove events, so disappointed to hear about DMBins lack of support to try and keep the event going. I had to smile at the mention of sustainable trails in their blurb….hmm, where’s that magic wand again?

 

 

 

Ah, not just me that thought that was a really stupid idea to do that…

I think you lose “Valley Points” if you suggest its maybe not the place for a hoon…

I think you lose “Valley Points” if you suggest its maybe not the place for a hoon…

ha ha, oh yes, I can believe that.

As DMBins are only based in Glentress

They have a number of people in the NE and around Fort William, so I’m not sure that’s a fair criticism.

SXC and SDA deliver their race series with amazing teams of volunteers, so is the counter argument that enduro is unable to be run with a similar team?

The key issue will be if Scottish/British Cycling are going to fully sanction enduro races, like they do XC and DH.

With a sanctioned race, ultimately once the race starts, responsibility and liability lies with BC.

SDA and SXC just have to provide the infrastructure (course, marshals, medical cover, number boards, etc) for the event, the commissaires inspect the course, then once practise/racing starts, are liable for the event on behave of BC.

As it stands with Enduro, the event organiser has to insure and be liable for the event. Combine that with far larger courses (requires more time at the venue pre-event, because even with local input, as the organiser you’ll still want to ensure the course is suitable, and know what you’re accepting liability for), and a far riskier event (far more potential for missing riders and injured riders being unfound).

Now having chatted with some commissaires recently, none of them were happy with the liability aspect of current enduro events, and governing bodies haven’t exactly been forthcoming with any official guidance.

Now to expect volunteers to take on that effort and risk, and deliver consistent events at multiple venues for little reward, is a lot.

On that subject I think if we didn’t already have the SDA and SXC it’d be very, very hard to start a new one let alone have it be as strong as it is. I’ve had no dealings with SXC but SDA are bloody good at what they do and that’s come over years and years. And in the end, an enduro is still basically a lot like running 4-5 dh races at the same time, more access issues, more routeplanning and taping, more things to go wrong. A dh race is a crazy enough thing by itself. And enduro has more whiny cockbags like me always wanting a new track, or more difficulty, or LESS difficulty, or whatever. While DH people are much more accepting of “we will do the same locations and largely the same tracks every year” and tbh more realistic about things going wrong, they get that this is a stupid and challenging sort of event.

I say this often but it’s absolutely true, you have to be out of your mind to want to run a bike race. It’s really difficult, it’s risky, it needs either a massively wide skillset or a really good team, and there’s so many factors out of your control that can just trash you. You have to be both skilled and crazy and a people person and a practical person and a patient person and constantly risk aware but not risk averse and just incredibly hard working, so that some bellends can tell you everything you’re doing wrong on the internet or that it’s too expensive or too easy or too hard or both or that it should be closer to their house. And finding people who can do all that stuff and are also mad enough to want to is so, so rare and we’ve broken a whole lot of them on the wheel over the last decade.

I was a very good event organiser and a pretty good team-wrangler and that gave me enough skills to possibly make a go of it, but also the wisdom to see how hard it’d be and the desire to never ever do it. We need to protect these few skilled mad people at all costs, they’re the rarest resource in our sport by far.

I think enduros are the schrodinger cat of the mtb racing world, with numerous tracks that are both too hard and too easy at the same time.

and for the love of god don’t even consider making people pedal mid-stage!

and for the love of god don’t even consider making people pedal mid-stage!

As if you don’t like a good mid trail/stage pedal!

It will be a very tight timeline to train up enough new commissaires before 2026 if that is the plan- at least 4 events are needed to qualify at a base level, so at least a full season of racing. And if an enduro needs two per stage, that’s a lot of volunteers to find and train up. Not only that but SDA and probably SXC (I’m not sure) have much higher density of marshals than enduro. The last SDA had in the region of 23 marshals, if that density was spread over 5 stages it becomes unwieldy. BC are only just dipping their toes into enduro and there’s much to be established.

GavinB, the point was that DMBinS are local to the trail in question so should be well aware of potential conflicts with walkers.

Enduro was sanctioned by BC in the early days, the Commissaires were working from MTB rules as I recall, there were no Enduro specific rules. It won’t take long to get that part sorted with some willingness, or dusting off some earlier drafts. (I’m not offering to be clear, this already sounds like an almighty clash of the big alpha egos and it hasn’t even started yet….)

Hi Hels, with having the British Enduro Champs this year, there is something in place already I’m sure. The bigger issue to me is whether they will be able to find enough qualified commissaires in the next few years. A quick look at the current list shows that there’s not enough and many are still trainees like myself.

There’s a lot of anger towards BMBinS coming out here, particularly from current and past organisers, upset that this initiative is 1; proposing volunteer led competition to their business or 2; a kick in the teeth to their past efforts at getting DMBinS to help develop Enduro in Scotland.

with having the British Enduro Champs this year, there is something in place already I’m sure

There isn’t, and the Commissaires I’ve spoken to weren’t happy with the risk of being responsible for enduros.

The main driver behind the National Champs, was the UK was one of two countries (the other being Canada IIRC) with competitors in the world series who didn’t have any recognised national championship. Although there has been a national champs as part of the BNES for a few years, it’s never been officially recognised.

Kev might want to share the full details, but as I understand it, Ae wasn’t a fully sanctioned event. It was essentially a commercial event, that BC happened to be at to ensure riders were meeting the champs eligibility and generic BC rules for mtb events, as there are still no enduro specific rules AFAIK.

The fact is, that without BC getting their act together and fully sanctioning enduro, there is currently no pathway to international level within the UK. However, are BC willing to accept the risks inherent with enduro races, while still making running a sanctioned race viable?

As for DMBinS role in this, I’d imagine they’ll take a similar role as they have in the MTB Innovation Centre. They’ll instigate it, then if it goes tits up, they’ll sit quietly at the back of the hall room while some other organisation takes the fall for it.

None of this is great- but I reckon I’ll make the effort to get to at least one Doon The Brae race next year, and maybe cross the border too..

DMBInS are halfway through hosting a very busy conference right now so not in a great position to respond to comments.

Well they’ve taken time out their busy conference to start a new instagram page for this new enduro association and post some utter guff like whether or not mullet bikes should have their own race category. I can’t believe public money pays for this crap

I don’t think its an entirely genuine page…

Perhaps DMBinS would have been wise to secure the social media accounts before announcing the name of their new organisation.

I don’t think its an entirely genuine page…

Aaahhhh

That makes more sense. I did wonder about the song entitled “Nothing But Thieves” being used for one of the posts!

Bravo. Top level ****housing

I honestly can’t tell if that page is real or not. You’d think that the mullet post and “get in the SEA” were top trolling but the rest is very normal!

I thought everybody was happy not to be part of BC? Seemingly in parallel with wanting their help.

Agree that the predictable bit of a mess is really nothing of a surprise but you can’t have your cake and eat it.

Also, I don’t see anyone stepping up to run a commercial Scottish series so, what, are we just supposed to wait for Chris Ball to get bored with whatever the **** he’s calling the DH and Enduro worlds these days or No Fuss and the rest to suddenly remember they had a bag of cash stuffed in the sofa after all? You can’t claim it’s a threat to commercial events when right now there aren’t any besides the occasional Muckmedden or ski resort special that won’t have any less entrants as a consequence.

It sounds like a shite situation all round and it isn’t getting any better by the look of it but what’s Plan B? Because from where I’m sitting it doesn’t sound like there is one or that it’s likely anyone is going to come up with anything any time soon.

BC involvement is probably best described as a necessary evil. With Enduro now being recognised by UCI, the only pathway to international level now requires sanctioned races, where you can score the required BC/UCI points.

At a grassroots level, BC also makes sense, as it’s the most viable way for local clubs to run club events. Things like the PCC Dirt Crit races are run via BC, but as it stands, the only way for local clubs to run an enduro, is to take on the responsibility of the race and insure it themselves, which generally makes then unviable, as you’re not likely to cover the costs with typical local race numbers.

Some what coincidentally, I bumped into Chris Ball last week and had a quick chat. His involvement with Scottish Enduro is very much over.

If ESO hadn’t won the rights for all the UCI MTB stuff, they would most likely still be running the SES, and I’d say that with hindsight, ESO probably wouldn’t have taken on the SES if they knew they would win the UCI stuff. It was very much a case of poor timing, with relaunching the SES 6 months before winning the UCI stuff, then 6 months later having to run the UCI stuff, so the SES got mothballed after there was little interest in an alternative setup (somewhat ironically similar to what the SEA proposal is..)

As for NoFuss, NoFuss is also very much dead, with little desire from either of the main people to be directly responsible for running events.

There have been other proposals floating around for a few months, but the overarching issue is, the numbers don’t make sense.

I’ve personally costed out a smaller more local series, and the realistic ‘profit’, is somewhere between losing 1k, and making 2k, and that’s before allowing for the various bits you’d need to buy to put on a race. That excludes any sponsorship, but bike trade sponsorship is pretty much non-existent at the moment, and I suspect it will remain that way for a while.

I personally don’t know what the solution is, however I wouldn’t want to see somebody take on the SEA proposal without knowing exactly what they’re facing, and what needs done to make it successful, as otherwise you risk ending up with a broken organiser, and/or poor events.