[Closed] New rules for MOT - to test for diesel particulate filter

same thing already applies for the diesels Cat - i removed mine 3 years ago and have had zero aggro for it.

Will be interesting to see how they are supposed to perform the check on cars which have undertrays etc. which obscure the view of such things..

or fakes installed.

I have enquired about DPF removal and they open the case, remove the dpf and weld it back up. Seems common to do and no one in an MOT station will know any different. It wont affect emmisions , only soot, so not sure how they will test it. I also see, when cars depreciate, more cars coming off the road very early in their lives, due to the inherent cost of replacing such items, so the world will be struggling to dismantle and recycle a lot more cars than they currently do. Almost to the point of saturation like happened when the scrap allowance was done. The DPF is not a cure of diesels , in the same way Cats werent for cars. They are just quick cures. Which as a consumer, we will have to pay in the long term.

Sick of seeing the clouds of soot booted out of diesels. Horrible bloody things. Sorry I don't agree with 'diesels are good'. I'm for anything that gets them cleaned up- sorry if it costs you.

Diesel should be restricted to tractors and ditch pumps where it belongs. 🙂

[img] [/img]

just for you hora

you best start walking or cycling - your petrol cars not much better - just the stuff that will kill you doesnt have a visible soot to it

[url= http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/246495.php ]diesel exhaust particles, nice.[/url]

I also see, when cars depreciate, more cars coming off the road very early in their lives, due to the inherent cost of replacing such items, so the world will be struggling to dismantle and recycle a lot more cars than they currently do

Sort of - I expect these things are only expensive problems now because they're new technology and theres an limited aftermarket and limited wisdom within the car repairing fraternity. A few years down the line though there'll be a cottage industry off fixes and refurbishments. I used to be able to exchange rather than replace the shock absorbers on my old MGB, theres was only £12 parts and labour difference between a jiggered one I posted off and the refurbished one I got back. By the same measure with my current common rail diesel I can post off my dead ECU or EDU and get a refurb one back already coded and matched to plug in and use. I couldn't have done that when the van was new, but now that its long in the tooth all those engines are failing in the same way, mechanics are versed in diagnosing the common faults and theres a market in fixing/re-engineering those commonly failing components

My diesel doesn't have a DPF 😀

Sorry hora 😉

Diesels are for trucks and agriculture.

In a car they just advertise to everyone that you are tight or don't really like cars.

"don't really like cars."

you assume right - cars are tools.

I have 2 diesels in the household a Cmax and a Kangoo Van, neither have DPFs and neither kick out tonnes of soot, as long as you give them a good blast on a regular basis.

And if the EGR's start causing any problems then I will look at getting them blanked off.

Cats werent for cars. They are just quick cures. Which as a consumer, we will have to pay in the long term.

Except cats are pretty reliable? I don't actualy know 1st hand* of anyone having one fail.

*I'm sure I know someone on an internet forum whose friend had one fail, but not amongst the people I actualy know with cars.

I have 2 diesels in the household a Cmax and a Kangoo Van, neither have DPFs and [b]I dont see either[/b] [s]neither [/s]kick out tonnes of soot,

FTFY, unless you follow behind them accelerating away in some out of body experience?

In a car they just advertise to everyone that you are tight or don't really like cars.

LOL!! 😆

rats cocks! just cut mine out the other day and had ecu re programmed..tits tits tits...

I suppose there are no problems with "Gasoline direct injection" and particulate matter that is ejected from them.
IIRC mot testers can't remove any trays or covers to check items, it's been a while but that is how it used to be.
[Diesels are for trucks and agriculture.

In a car they just advertise to everyone that you are tight or don't really like cars.
]
Or you like spending your cash on something rather than TAX

Or you like spending your cash on something rather than TAX

I rarely drive the car. Mostly I use my scooter, so if you wanna start comparing tax, or fuel consumption, go ahead punk, make my day...! 😉

Scooter = tight, concerned about fuel consumption?
Don't use the car = don't like cars?

carry on 😉

Don't use the car = don't like cars?

No, I don't, correct. Bikes are superior.

But it was never me that claimed that in the first place, I just found richmtb's post amusing. 😛

70+MPG, £30 RFL heater + aircon, and a roof.. Your moped might do better.. but in winter a heater and a roof win it at 6am...

no one in an MOT station will know any different. It wont affect emmisions , only soot, so not sure how they will test it.

Well diesel MOT's don't have an emissions test so the fact they won't change doesn't really matter,

They do have a have a smoke/soot test though.

So that's how they would test it.

neither have DPFs and neither kick out tonnes of soot

They still produce it though even though you don't see it. Try driving at night in front of another car and floor it. You will see loads of the fine blue haze in their dipped lights.

70+MPG, £30 RFL heater + aircon, and a roof.. Your moped might do better.. but in winter a heater and a roof win it at 6am...

1) It's not a moped. It's a scooter. Big difference.
2) Aircon is standard on all motorbikes 🙂
3) £37 RFL for my 350cc scooter, but more than your 70mpg so I win there. Oh £80 insurance too. Beat that. 🙂
4) I've been commuting by bike for nearly 20 years. See [url= http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/ ]Rule 5[/url] I've cycled at -7c at 6.30am.
5) I've got £1000-ish worth of kit and heated grips. I'm as warm as you are.
6) Free parking 10 yards from work, cars either pay or park 10 mins walk away.
7) And the killer: I get there faster every single time. Over 15 miles I reckon I save 1/2 to 1hr per day over a car. What's that worth?

🙂

EDIT
Also, lets see your proof of 70mpg from you car. I'm calling bullshit 🙂
I've got 7354 miles worth of fuel records. Have you?

No, you win.. That's really anal though, I couldn't be arsed to get into it that much tbh..
It's a panda multijet and sat on the m25 at 55 it does more than 70mpg fwiw..
😉
Edit.. But.. I can get two bikes and a mate in it as well, so pfffttt!!!
😀

i had a punto multijet, if i kept it to a steady 50mph, the computer would say 75mpg.
more normal use would result in 53mpg, barely any more than the 2 litre mondeo that replaced it.
id rather have a bike.
motorised or not.

Poddy 70mpg is not out of the question these days for a car, depending on use. Even my Passat can get 65 on a motorway run and some people only do motorway runs. It's auto and not even bluemotion.

wow some of you guys need to stop playing internet top trumps, did you also mention who would be better off in a accident between scooter/motorbike and car? hmm thought not.

but on a slightly more serious note, i am a believer that an older, mechanical car that can easily reach 200,000+ miles without all the egr cat dpf bollocks has got to be better for the enviroment than some ecobox shit that has to be re-melted down and remade every 4-5 years when you look at total lifespan and and energy used in total, but hey maybe thats too sensible?

beamends: im pretty sure i read somewhere that green peace said pretty much that (the greenest cars are the ones that last the longest) when the government were encouraging us to trade our cars in for new 'greener' models.

To test this properly they'd have to open up every Euro4/5 exhaust system paying particular attention to the sensor arrangement so they don't break anything
This would mean costs massively increasing and a huge training exercise to show mot inspectors what to do as each car is different. It sounds like they have good intentions but how the hell will they implement it?
Also if you have a warranty longer than 3 years opening the dpf up will invalidate the warranty. It sounds like aload of bollox to me to simply scare people

Since a car with a DPF should produce zero on the smoke test, any car with a bypassed or disabled DPF will show a non-zero result. Can't stand diesel soot, so if you have one with a DPF you should keep it installed.

"Sorry sir, your car has failed. Please bring in evidence that the DPF is working."

i am a believer that an older, mechanical car that can easily reach 200,000+ miles without all the egr cat dpf bollocks has got to be better for the enviroment than some ecobox shit that has to be re-melted down and remade every 4-5 years when you look at total lifespan and and energy used in total, but hey maybe thats too sensible?

Too sensible? No, but it is too bollocks.

Those old mechanical diesels will expire eventually. And when that happens it's better to replace it with something that will be much cleaner and is probably MORE likely to last 200k miles. No-one's suggesting scrapping perfectly good cars. Well, apart from the government a few years back, but that was an economic policy not an environmental one.

And why call them eco shitboxes? A new Passat is a much more powerful and luxurious car than a 20 year old one, and it's more economical and cleaner.

And your passat has an expected life span of ?

Some folk want to read how dpfs work before bumping their daily mail off the table they are not the wonder cure

Other folk want to stop using diesels for city run abouts.

Heard from someone within DoT that they can easily check for welded DPF units & will fail them unless you can prove it is complete. Also, fake units are apparently easily recognisable (serial numbers, CE marks etc) & will also result in a fail.
There are plans to extend further the diesel exhaust gas testing to tighten controls.

Maybe dot can - dot dont do mot testing.

Having read the documents it seems all they will do is look for it. If it's there that's ok. The mot requirement is 'not removed' only....

why do people take them out?

Mine doesn't have one... Are there still new models on the market that don't?

Also passed 2 MOTs without the cat no bother (never sure about the pros and cons on that, fuel economy with the remap and decat is a fair bit better, so I'm maybe producing more nasties per litre but burning less litres, who knows). It does have more powers and less thirsts so I'll overlook whether or not it's killing babies.

Dpfs get clogged with soot if not exercised often.

My cat got removed when it rotted through.

Cat on a diesel- might want to read about what that doesnt do also.

Egr is the only one i think has merit- but they need to design em to the car rather than a bolt on clog fest like both mines were.

Just wait till you get the Euro Cat VI with NOx sensors and treatment injectors in exhausts, just getting an exhaust fitted will be trouble. As for EGR's they are a botch just to try and reduce NOx's being generated by loweing the temperature of the combustion chamber.

Checking for Cat's during an MOT is an interesting item, if the shape of the exhaust section is unchanged and the emissions are fine, it's very difficult to find a reason to fail it. Subaru's with straight pipe the size of a flue for an aga and emissions well off the scale are easier to spot.

Just because it is proposed for inclusion to the MOT test doesn't mean to say it will make it into test criteria, there was a big thing a while back about putting window tinting in, but the industry kicked up about buying extra equipment and calibration that it was chucked out and remained an item for the police.

As for catalytic converters failing don't see many, but in the main coil packs that have gone down, so lots of unburnt fuel making it into the exhaust and poisening it, or cheap replacements. Some crack and break up as well, old mondeo's seem keen on this.

Dpfs get clogged with soot if [s]not exercised often[/s] people don't follow the instructions.

to balance molgrips post
a DPFs history is unknown when buying 2nd hand so you can easily inherit someone else's clogged up dpf but it could be a few months or a few minutes before the problem appears, then you end up a gibbering mess when they tell you it's £2k to fix it
Plus if it's a poorly designed one like Mazda6 2.0d then the problem could happen again even if you drive it properly

Hows your dpf molgrips ? Must be had to follow te instructions with a gearbox in limp mode ?

I bought a Laguna for Mrs Pepper to to drive to work, bought the most basic one I could and got the version without the DPF, it may cost slightly more to tax but will give me less grief later on...

molgrips - Member

Dpfs get clogged with soot if people don't follow the instructions.

My cars are tools- they do the driving I want them to do, I don't expect them to be telling me go for a long drive otherwise it'll shit the bed. Imagine a hammer that every so often insists you bash in nails for 40 minutes at a rate of no less than 3 nails a minute otherwise the head'll fall off and you'll need to spend a grand on a new one.

You service it once a year don't you? You defrost the windscreen before driving? You get the tracking checked, camblet changed, you check tyre pressures and oil? This is no different, except you don't have to pay someone else to do it and it only takes 10 mins.

Hows your dpf molgrips ? Must be had to follow te instructions with a gearbox in limp mode ?

Gearbox never been in limp mode, don't have a DPF. Maybe make some notes next time so you get your facts right 🙂

My diesel camper has a straight pipe, EGR delete and has been tuned to the limit of the turbo. If you plant it the black cloud is a sight to behold. Not far off that tractor ^ tbh..

Hopefully all this is just for post 2000 motors.

molgrips - Member

except you don't have to pay someone else to do it and it only takes 10 mins.

VAG group for instance insist on 40 minutes.

I service my car, because it has a job to do and that's what it needs to do it. That's very different from occasionally just refusing to do the job it's for, by design. Possessions that want to own you.

It's no different. The oil gets dirty, you change it. Cambelt wears, you change it. DPF gets clogged, it cleans itself. You don't let it clean itself, you have to clean it.

Anyway, you have a choice. Buy petrol. And then you can moan about spark plugs or HT leads or something instead.

Ah ok i spelt "generally ****ed " wrong

The difference is fitness for purpose, DPFs make the car less good at being a car. It's like the difference between maintaining a drivetrain, and buying a singlespeed.

Sorry, I have to go now, I wanted to keep posting on forums but my keyboard insists my posts aren't long enough so now I have to copy out 10 chapters from war and peace, otherwise it'll catch fire. Just routine servicing.

Ah, but the mouse blood has to be filled with Bad AIDS, and the manufacture will get all twitchy about selling you the mouse blood if you intend to top it up yourself.

I'm not looking forward to refilling the regen fluid reservoir. Bloody Peugeot hiding it away up neat the fuel tank.

Sorry Sobriety, I edited my post so now it looks like you're having some sort of episode.

What makes you think I'm not? 😆

DPFs make the car less good at being a car.

Depends on your point of view. You know the DPF has positives as well as negatives, of course you do. You just don't consider air quality to be important, it seems, despite what the WHO and everyone else say.

You could say the same about lots of safety and environmental equippment. A bit silly Imo.

Molgeips , you gave up that moral high ground when you bought a diesel.

What you talking about? Moral high ground?

" you dont consider air quality to be important"

You gave me the same lecture when i said id blanked off my egrs on both vehicles.

Ayway both of those pale in insignificance to the number of baby robins that fire out my exhaust dead when im driving my land rover.

It's all a conspiracy. We should be free to bypass safety devices and harm anyone we please.

Myself - I ripped out my DPF with my teeth - now I can exfoliate my skin and lungs with my own unfiltered particulates.

It's my right.

Maybe we could start an association like the NRA to campaign.

Anyone with me?

, unless you follow behind them accelerating away in some out of body experience?

come to think of it i remember my dad and uncles having a pretty similar conversation in 1990 when Cats were being talked about for cars .... and the cars that had them already like volvos and such like were getting notorious for them being fragile and failing quickly and being expensive to fix - in the 6-700 quid region IIRC

I think modern ecu controled fuel injection systems went along way to helping them live long and fruitful lives so they werent getting dowsed in petrol all the time + the technology got better.

now a days no one blinks an eye lid if a cats failed - usually because a mass overfueling issue from another part failing - and its about 3-400 quid to get a new one fitted unless your driving a VAG gold plated car( or 100 quid for a patern unit for a frenchie)

More smoke more poke!