New car legal advice – Sh** dealers (again)

Ah, I see, do we shout ‘Ling, Ling, Ling’ at this point?

This thread is useless without gifs

When I was asked about the details of my car she typed the details into her PC, they’re now claiming that I told her it was 35k, not 85k.

At any point, were you asked to sign anything to the tune of ‘the above is correct to the best of my knowledge?’

This thread is useless without gifs

I think he is saying it cost home £1400 to out his plate on retention, and if he returns the new car and cancels the deal, he wants it refunded from them.

From memory it cost about £75 to put a plate on retention 🤔

Update:

Been to garage this morning, to be met by three people all apologising they’d got it wrong. They checked the CCTV, they could see that I did leave my keys with them whilst on the test drive and can see the sales girl check the outside of the car, but didn’t check the inside of it, or the mileage. They also accept they had at least three opportunities to have checked the mileage and didn’t, so they apologised unreservedly.

As soon as the log book for my old car comes back they’ll pay me the difference and case closed.

It’s not clear what this £1400 is…

That’s the difference of what I owed on old car Vs the trade, which they will return to me when I give them the new log book with the original car reg.

I’m still wondering why he sold the first car being as he spent so much money on it and it was so good.

Because I have a car allowance and it states the car is to be 4 years old max, it was six and becoming a financial liability.

I daresay just like OP’s last car-related thread there’s probably more to this than meets the eye…

*yawn

The OP isn’t always up front with car threads https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/legal-advice-please-cancelling-a-new-car-dispute/

Until we know the other sides version, let’s not assume things are what they seem to be

See my comment above, they cocked up, but nice to see you’re happy to drag crap up from years ago to prove you’re judgmental

As I had a private plate on my car I had to put it on retention and awaiting the log book. Because they need it, they normally ask for a holding deposit, so I told them to keep the £1400 they owe me until I bring the new V5 back. Hardly the stance of a fraudster.

So the £1400 is the balance of value of the traded in Merc against the finance on that car. Which OP is using as deposit on new Volvo or is excess above the deposit and should be returned to OP.

When new Volvo V5 gets to the OP, he can then take his plate off retention and put it on new car.

So currently the dealer is sat on £1400 of OP’s money, which should be used as deposit on the new car. Are you worried OP that the dealer will ‘keep’ this money in lieu of the difference in valuation on the Merc, rather than apply it as deposit on Volvo or return to you?

Edit: ignore me, I typed reply while OP was clearing things up.

The world of car finance never fails to baffle me!

Wasn’t crap tho was it 🤔

Been to garage this morning, to be met by three people all apologising they’d got it wrong. They checked the CCTV, they could see that I did leave my keys with them whilst on the test drive and can see the sales girl check the outside of the car, but didn’t check the inside of it, or the mileage. They also accept they had at least three opportunities to have checked the mileage and didn’t, so they apologised unreservedly.

And then they all stood up and clapped…

So really, what you’re saying is you went off too soon until they’d had a chance to check it, now they’ve checked it it’s all fine so this whole thing was a load of fuss over nothing?

Surely if the deal is done and all signed for, it’s not your problem.

So currently the dealer is sat on £1400 of OP’s money, which should be used as deposit on the new car. Are you worried OP that the dealer will ‘keep’ this money in lieu of the difference in valuation on the Merc, rather than apply it as deposit on Volvo or return to you?

Exactly this. They have assured me that they’ll return the money when I bring in the new log book for the trade in.

So really, what you’re saying is you went off too soon until they’d had a chance to check it, now they’ve checked it it’s all fine so this whole thing was a load of fuss over nothing?

I had a cooling off period on the new car, why would I sit around and wait and reduce my options?

Someone called me up and categorically stated I’d provided them false info, I wanted it cleared up ASAP as they’re sitting on £1400 of my money.

Someone called me up and categorically stated I’d provided them false info, I wanted it cleared up ASAP as they’re sitting on £1400 of my money.

As I read it, it’s literally been a day? You asked them to reconsider/recheck – they did and now it’s sorted? Still struggling to see the problem here…

Hang on.

In your OP you said they were claiming that their mileage record was based on what you told them and they don’t check it so it’s all your fault for lying to them, now today:

They checked the CCTV, they could see that I did leave my keys with them whilst on the test drive and can see the sales girl check the outside of the car, but didn’t check the inside of it, or the mileage.

… thus proving what you say they said in the first place, that they didn’t check it? What’s changed?

I don’t doubt for a moment that you told them a genuine figure and the mistake was theirs in entering it wrong. But I don’t understand where your sudden innocence comes from, it looks like the opposite.

Cougar, I read it as they disputed they could even have checked the car over (inc odo) as he didn’t leave the keys with them, or so they protested.

The CCTV however shows he did thus blowing their contention out of the water.

But from the OP:

The sales manager said they didn’t check the odometer or MOT history because they expect their customers to be truthful and he’d check the CCTV to see if I’d left my keys on her desk whilst out for a test drive!

What do the keys matter, that’s not the reason cited. If he’d said “the sales manager said they couldn’t check the odometer because I didn’t leave the keys” that’d be different. (And would still have been their fault for not insisting, of course.)

But I don’t understand where your sudden innocence comes from, it looks like the opposite.

pardon? My stance has been the same from the minute I walked into the showroom. I told her the correct mileage, she’s wrote it down wrong and clearly when she’s realised she’s got it wrong, she’s then tried to blame me.

They’ve had three opportunities to check the mileage and didn’t.

Today they admitted that it was ALL their own fault.

I’m reading it different to be honest Cougar, hence why they said they would check the cctv.

Edit: Glad it’s all resolved anyway op.

What do the keys matter, that’s not the reason cited. If he’d said “the sales manager said they couldn’t check the odometer because I didn’t leave the keys” that’d be different. (And would still have been their fault for not insisting, of course.)

and he admitted today he was wrong because he’s now checked the CCTV and not only seen that they could have, but they didn’t. Nor did they check it again when I went to pick the new car up.

On the face of it garage made you an offer on your car as part of the deal, you liked the price and agreed. They came back and said we cocked up ay us more at which point I would have said sorry, I entered into a contract in good faith.

The mileage issue is a red herring, even if he’d lied through his teeth about it it’s such a simple thing to check due diligence falls to them to check before completing the deal.

All very simple and has worked out as it should.

Well done OP it all worked out as it should. Enjoy the car

I am just struggling to understand where some people are getting their views of your wrongdoing it seems straight forward to me that the garage did not do their work properly. I suspect the person who called you was trying to find a way out of the mess up. It created a very bad experience and I would have been very concerned in your shoes.

he admitted today he was wrong because he’s now checked the CCTV and not only seen that they could have, but they didn’t.

But we already know they didn’t, in your OP you said they admitted they hadn’t checked it – you said that they claimed they didn’t check the odometer because they trust their customers, not because they didn’t have the opportunity. Hence your (justified) outrage at being accused of lying to them.

I am just struggling to understand where some people are getting their views of your wrongdoing

Because he has history on here of slightly dodgy dealings – at least twice to my certain knowledge so people remember leopards rarely change their spots…

I’ll say again;

I’d be annoyed at the false accusation as much as anything, but I’m a little surprised and disappointed even, do we not let anyone off a genuine mistake any longer. Just because it’s a garage or a company, the attitude of ‘tough shit, your problem’ doesn’t sit that well with me.

Interesting this.

My partners last car was p/xd at a Honda dealer, we followed the same pattern, went out on a test drive and let them have a look round our old car whilst we were gone.

We dealt with a lady whom, it turned out was the wife of the sales manager. She had lost her unrleated job, and this was her new role, and we were her first ever customers, so she was lovely.

I had a ‘cost to change’ in mind, (because thats what matters, not how much they give you p.x or how much the new car is) and they came in with a very favourable figure, so we bought the car there and then.

Only once we were home, did we spot that when filling out the p/x appraisal documents and value calculator, she had input the mileage of our old car as the number on the trip computer. Which would have been, at an absolute maximum, 999. Not the number on the odometer. Which was 70 thousand and something.

surprises me in this computer age that it doesn’t flag up and need an additional input if eg: mileage per year is not between say 6K and 15K. Would be dead easy

Because he has history on here of slightly dodgy dealings – at least twice to my certain knowledge so people remember leopards rarely change their spots…

Seriously? Because of the Lings cars thing people have this perception that I have had ‘dodgy dealings’. What you forget about the debacle was the person who was arranging the lease, was also trying to force a contract that was unenforceable.

I’ve been in sales for 26 years and NOT ONE thing I’ve ever sold has ever been brought into question, not one.

Not one of the dozen or so bikes I’ve sold in the last ten years has ever been an issue, a fair few of them through the STW community. I must have sold £12k of bikes in that time, once the bike has been sold I’ve not had the slightest noise of disappointment or complaint.

Just like the car I’ve just traded in, anything I’ve shifted on has been looked after. sold at the right price and in a very transparent manner.

I’d be annoyed at the false accusation as much as anything, but I’m a little surprised and disappointed even, do we not let anyone off a genuine mistake any longer. Just because it’s a garage or a company, the attitude of ‘tough shit, your problem’ doesn’t sit that well with me.

So I should have just rolled over then and offered them the £3k they claim they’re down?? I wish I was rich enough to be that spirited.

do we not let anyone off a genuine mistake any longer. Just because it’s a garage or a company, the attitude of ‘tough shit, your problem’ doesn’t sit that well with me.

Sure. “You’re forgiven.”

Good luck if the mistake had been in the opposite direction and you only noticed after you’d signed the contract.

I’d be annoyed at the false accusation as much as anything, but I’m a little surprised and disappointed even, do we not let anyone off a genuine mistake any longer. Just because it’s a garage or a company, the attitude of ‘tough shit, your problem’ doesn’t sit that well with me.

Except, to be fair to the OP, the dealer has tried to make it his (the OP’s) problem.. He’s gone in with good faith, and accepted the deal offered. If he’d realised the mistake they had made & not said anything, then I would have agreed with you. But as it stands the deal was done & dusted & quite frankly, once he’s taken the car away then they just have to accept that it was their mistake & they just have to take the hit.
Also, while I remember the Ling thread, I think trying to have a go at the op when he clearly hasn’t done anything wrong is a bit playing the man and not the ball.

I fully agree with the OP on this, it was a legal contract with a professional retailer. The OP made his decision to purchase based on the offer in front of him. If it had been brought up before signing the OP had the option not to move forward, once signed both parties were committed to the deal.

I nearly got screwed when we bought my wife’s car, despite repeatedly saying I didn’t want the after market paint protection rubbish they were flogging it still ended up o the contract. Luckily I spotted it when I read the contract through before signing otherwise I’d have been committed another £800 I’m pretty certain I wouldn’t have seen again. Conversely on the car I ordered on Monday the salesman put the cost of the optional paint upgrade in at £650 when it should have been £800, his mistake which he spotted before signing. To his credit he left it as it was as we’d agreed on the bottom line price.

So I should have just rolled over then and offered them the £3k they claim they’re down?? I wish I was rich enough to be that spirited.

Hang on, you said

It was about where I expected it to be, especially given they were looking to do a deal on a car they had to shift on and had lots of margin to play with due to the extensive list of options that inflated the RRP.

and now that’s £3k different between what they offered you and what they say they should have offered you?

I wish I was rich enough that a £3K difference is in the ‘sounds about right’ noise.

True honesty would have said ‘that’s a good deal but I think you’ve entered the numbers wrong somewhere’.

He’s gone in with good faith, and accepted the deal offered. If he’d realised the mistake they had made & not said anything, then I would have agreed with you.

I asked earlier about ‘gift horse’ – and it was denied. £3K would have had my spidey senses tingling, tbh, then again the new car is what, £35K+ so maybe £3K is in the noise?

Good luck if the mistake had been in the opposite direction and you only noticed after you’d signed the contract.

Fortunately you have cooling off periods for that, but I agree. However as I said if the error in the offer had been the other way, you’d sure as hell point it out.

A mistake’s a mistake, and IMHO should be rectified, not taken advantage of.

Actually – funny enough MANY years ago something similar happened to me..

I had a Honda Civic Type R (braaaaap) I was trading in for a Skoda Octavia (erm…brrrr..) plus some cash (my way).
The Civic had a small dent in the wing.
When we test drove the Octavia the garage looked round the Civic, and offered a price for it.

When we went back a few days later to collect the Octavia+money, and give them teh Civic, they got a bit annoyed about the ‘new dent’ on the car… I told them it was there for weeks, and was there when they looked round it and made an offer..

I wasn’t going to let them try to wangle down an agreed price.. whether they really didn’t see the dent, or had, but were trying it on, it wasn’t like I was hiding anything or lying..

DrP

I asked earlier about ‘gift horse’ – and it was denied. £3K would have had my spidey senses tingling

How is the OP supposed to know that figure prior to getting a PX value?

Good luck if the mistake had been in the opposite direction and you only noticed after you’d signed the contract.

For the same reason I’ve never had PPI, I read the small print and T’s & C’s, I’ve been burned in the past. But the information that caused this whole debacle was never put before my eyes, so you expecting me to be a mind reader too?

How is the OP supposed to know that figure prior to getting a PX value?

And when it was, iirc, within about £200 of a private offer he’d already had for the car he was PXing, and therefore seemed to be reasonable.

It’s a bit suspect that the amount of the difference in PX value is approximately double the deposit lodged at the dealer. “Tell you what sir, we don’t want to be unreasonable, we’ll split the difference and just hang on to your 1400 quid”

But the information that caused this whole debacle was never put before my eyes, so you expecting me to be a mind reader too?

I think you’ve missed my point.

People are arguing that you should accept their mistake and allow them to revise it, after you’ve signed a contract. What I’m saying is if the mistake had been in their favour rather than in yours, say they’d recorded the odometer as 185k, I’m dubious that you’d get anything from them other than “sorry but you signed the contract so too bad.”

and now that’s £3k different between what they offered you and what they say they should have offered you?

They say the car with 85k is worth £3k less than they paid, which is ridiculous, even WBAC only has £1200 difference.

True honesty would have said ‘that’s a good deal but I think you’ve entered the numbers wrong somewhere’.

They offered me exactly what I thought they would, it was about £800 more than WBAC quoted. And as they confirmed this morning, they upped the offer using some margin from the new car.

I asked earlier about ‘gift horse’ – and it was denied. £3K would have had my spidey senses tingling, tbh, then again the new car is what, £35K+ so maybe £3K is in the noise?

The car was £47k. the’£3k’ was only ever mentioned last night when they rang me up to discuss the issue AFTER picking up the new car. So there was no opportunity for my ‘spidey senses’ tingle, they paid exactly what I thought they would for an immaculate, well maintained sought after Mercedes.