Netflix: Making a Murderer (HERE BE SPOILERS!!!)

Just finished it last night. If you haven’t watched it, do it.

For those that have, thoughts?

Clearly the makers have structured it to lead the audience to a particular conclusion, but clearly there’s something fishy going on.

No blood spatter in the trailer or in the garage. In fact no DNA evidence at all from the victim in the trailer.

Blood sample from the bullet potentially tainted during analysis

Miraculous invention of the EBTD test which is clouded in secrecy

Lenk signing out of but not in to the crime scene

General behaviour of the investigating officers

The absolutely shocking interrogation and “confession” of the nephew

The creepy prosecution lawyer

The mysterious appearance of the car key and the car. So he can scrub a crime scene spotless of any evidence but can’t dispose of a car and key despite having a car crusher on site

The key and blood tainted bullet appearing after the Manitowoc police re-enter the trailer and garage

Absolutely more than enough to suggest reasonable doubt. Just bonkers and a warning never to piss off a hick police department 😯

Wasn’t it shocking!
The big thing for me was the press coverage, how can anyone have a fair trial with that circus following everything that happens.

The big thing for me was the press coverage,

the press conference after the nephew’s confession where the prosecution lawyer describes in detail what happened according the nephew. 😯

Even I was convinced at that point that he was guilty. Disgraceful

If they’re going to frame him by planting his blood in the SUV, why not suggest he shot her somewhere else then drive her back to the pit at the back of his caravan? Then there’s no need to explain the lack of blood everywhere else!?

Apparently there’s several key pieces of evidence against him missing, the bullet came from his gun, he had bought shackles recently, he gave her several nuisance calls. Not damning evidence but it does show the programme was biased.

It does seem insane they both got sent down for it though given the strength of the defences case. Surely Brendan’s confessions should be deemed inadmissable!?

Was a great watch, that’s for sure!

Fantastic viewing

There are so many elements of the investigation that would never be allowed in the UK.
How a 16 year old who has obvious learning difficulties could end up in prison based on that “confession” is a mystery to me.

Not finished it yet but I’ve already seen spoilers about the outcome. The fat guy with the glasses and moustache (can’t remember his name) has achieved the seemingly impossible feat of having as smug and punchable face as David Cameron, each time I see him on it my blood boils haha.

The Mrs and I watched these in the space of three days and it is shocking. Obviously it is entertainment rather than any sort of legally credible account of the proceedings but even so, there is enough to raise some serious eyebrows.

There were so many little things that really beggared belief, the access that those with a clear conflict of interest were given to the potential crime scene, the lack of DNA.

The guy who really took the biscuit though was Dussey’s first lawyer whose investigator was also working for the prosecution of his Uncle was just mind blowing. How was any of this allowed to happen? Guilty or not, huge grounds for a mistrial. Stunning.

Did he do it? IANAL and the only evidence we have is shown through a biased documentary but if that many seemingly right thinking legal professionals are prepared to keep on pursuing a case which could so easily be written of as “redneck kills photographer” is enough to convince me that he is probably not guilty.

I reckon the creepy housemate did it.

The brother must be a suspect, talking about grieving and closure to the press when Teresa Halbach’s was still a missing person?!?

The brother must be a suspect, talking about grieving and closure to the press when Teresa Halbach’s was still a missing person?!?

Ex-boyfriend was also strange

The brother must be a suspect, talking about grieving and closure to the press when Teresa Halbach’s was still a missing person?!?

Ex-boyfriend was also strange

Excellent series. Started watching it expecting it to be a drama so had no idea about the story, background at all. Mind was being blown every episode!!

The amount of issues with the prosecution, access by the local PD etc was insane.

I doubt he was guilty but the scarey thing is that there is likely a murderer walking around scott free and we know the original assault perpetrator went on to rape someone else. scary prognosis!

I personally think it was the cousin who did it. Brendans brother?
He and his friend were the first to point the finger at Avery stating they saw the girl going into Avery’s trailer. Clearly had a motive of some kind and there story and credibility was blown out of the water fairly quickly and then kind of ignored. They would have had access to and knew the property well enough to dump the car there. Killed the girl else where then dumped the car and ashes on the Avery property.

As far as the police planting evidence goes I think when the car was first found by the PD the keys were still in the ignition and taken by PD. Blood evidence planted (that PD had access to) and then the key dropped in the bedroom at a later date when the local PD had access again. That is literally all the specific evidence against Avery in those 3 things and would have been easy to do…
– take key
– plant blood
– drop key
I think the two local PD cops who were implicated could see there lives falling apart and saw an opportunity. I really hope new evidence comes to light or testing procedures developed that leave the truth 100% certain. ie the planting of blood.

When they showed the blood vile with the hole in the top !!! Obviously one sided but surely there was enough for reasonable doubt . It was interesting that when the jury first voted most of them were not guilty , I would love to know how the deliberations went for that to change .

The telephone calls were interesting too. IIRC one of them was between Steven and his girlfriend in prison on the night of the murder. He certainly didn’t sound like someone who had raped, mutilated, shot and burned a woman earlier on in the day.

kids are watching this right now and expressing shock at it all, i havent been taking notice of it but keep seeing the series mentioned here, there and everywhere at the moment, seems to be a ‘big thing’?

i mentioned to them that if hes wrongfully imprisoned, and still there now, then surely the world watching this series will create enough furore to free him. they say no, because it would cost the government millions of dollars or something and its all a cover up.

not really knowing what theyre on about, is this the case? could this series see a (potentially) innocent man freed now or will it make no difference?

After his first wrongful imprisonment when he was released in 2003 he was trying to sue the state for $36 million dollars.

welcome to ‘Justice’ the American way…If you’re poor. you’re pretty much guilty of what they say you’re guilty of.

Years ago I read a book called Killing Time, not related at all, it’s about a lawyer who looks at death row cases, and this sort of sloppy investigation, bad legal representation, terrible interviewing, and fitting up goes on time and time and time again, and he was just practising in Florida. You could probably find cases like this in every State

thanks. but do you think the eyes of the world on this series will make a difference to his situation now? will it be investigated?

The point made by Averys laywers that once accused, you are basically f**ked for life is frighteningly true.. as experienced by the DA who suffered the same fate once accused of his own sexual harassment crimes and has now disappeared into oblivion it seems.

I think he has exhausted his appeals so needs new evidence to force a retrial which would seem to be a new way of testing the blood stains in the car to prove they were planted . So I think he is waiting on science as opposed to the tv program helping getting him released but I suppose all the publicity can’t do him any harm

Just finished watching it. Great show, very compelling. I was conscious of watching a very one sided portrayal of events, or of being manipulated by the film makers but even with that in the back of my mind it’s hard to imagine how Avery could have done what he was convicted of.

Unless there was some hugely compelling evidence left out of the documentary I just can’t see how the jury reached that conclusion.

If Avery did murder her, how is the DNA and blood evidence so randomly distributed? Why wouldn’t he crush the car? Or use the smelter to dispose of the body? Why would he do such a thing when he had $36million coming to him. Hmmmmmmmm 😕

It was amazing viewing. It is worrying enough that you can spend 18 years in prison for something that you didn’t do. Then life with no chance of release for something that it’s very likely you didn’t do.

The 1st time I couldn’t believe how he was sent down when he had 22 people stating where he was from 2pm to 11pm so couldn’t have been anywhere near the location at the time of the assault. Ok they were family members, but surely most alibis are provided by family members.
The murder conviction was baffling. As said above, how can it not give you some doubts about him doing it when we have to believe he is clever and skilled enough to completely clean his trailer and garage of blood/DNA, but stupid enough to not get rid of her car and the smear of blood right on the dash and leave the key in your bedroom.

The conviction of Brendan is worse still. Poor kid was f**ked over by those 2 investigators and his own lawyer and will now spend 20+ years in prison for it. I was genuinely shocked and angered when the judge read out that he was found guilty.

It was shocking, I couldn’t understand how it was possible for a bunch of intelligent people to arrive at a guilty verdict for either of them.

For me,there was far more reasonable doubt about their guilt, than evidence to prove them guilty.

I’m not saying 100% that they had nothing to do with it, but the trial was a farce.

Also, is it normal for the prosecutor to go on TV before a trial and explain in detail what happened to the victim? Seemed a bit off to me.

I think it’s worth remembering that in the States positions such as District Attorney, Judges, Police Chiefs are voted into office. The reason they go on telly like this is to remind folk that they are catching, prosecuting, and imprisoning “the bad guys”. That some of those bad guys are perhaps innocent doesn’t seem to trouble them unduly.

Horribly compelling viewing. Don’t think I’ve ever shouted so loudly and so often at a tv screen before watching this.

Brendan’s initial defender (Kuchinsky?) made me wish to punch self in face merely for watching the horror show unravel. Heartbreaking. That learning disabled kids (adult) life was over before it began, he never stood a chance against such manipulation. ******* disgraceful.

I read that the BBC are making a programme similar to this but have not said what the case is . You assume that this type of thing doesnt happen in the uk , at least not anymore .

Malvern Rider

Horribly compelling viewing. Don’t think I’ve ever shouted so loudly and so often at a tv screen before watching this.

Brendan’s initial defender (Kuchinsky?) made me wish to punch self in face merely for watching the horror show unravel. Heartbreaking. That learning disabled kids (adult) life was over before it began, he never stood a chance against such manipulation. ******* disgraceful.

Very much so. Regardless of Avery, there was absolutely no evidence linking Dassey to the crime other than his own confession. The extent to which he was coerced should have been obvious to anyone with eyes.

Never mind the fact that his confession and conviction upon that confession completely contradicts Avery’s conviction and the DA’s statement that they murdered her in the garage.

Why wouldn’t he crush the car? Or use the smelter to dispose of the body? Why would he do such a thing when he had $36million coming to him. Hmmmmmmmm

Because Murderers don’t think like normal people.

teef

Because Murderers don’t think like normal people.

So what you’re saying is that he was smart enough to rape, murder, dismember and burn this woman on his property and doesn’t leave a trace of blood anywhere other than the boot of her car and traces of DNA on the bullet?

In other words he was able to forensically clean his trailer, his garage and do so in a fashion that none of them actually looked like they’d been cleaned in any way?

I’m not saying I believe 100% he’s innocent but I don’t think he’s smart enough to execute all that, but dumb enough to not crush the car or dispose of the body in the smelter.

And he’s smart enough to wear gloves while moving the car so as not to get any fingerprints anywhere on it, but dumb enough not to wash it, having….foresically cleaned his entire trailer and garage full of shit.

Slightly OT but also watched ‘The Kill Team’ (2013) about ‘whistleblowers’ in the military. Terrifying.

I also recommend Cash for Kids in a similar-ish area. Two judges given cash incentives from a private prison company to send kids to jail for even the most minor infractions. Many of these kids had their lives ruined as a result. Grim.

And Paradise Lost of course.

And he’s smart enough to wear gloves while moving the car so as not to get any fingerprints anywhere on it, but dumb enough not to wash it, having….foresically cleaned his entire trailer and garage full of shit.

That’s how they catch murderers – they make a mistake and overlook something.

teef

That’s how they catch murderers – they make a mistake and overlook something.

How does he spill droplets of his own blood (from the cut on his finger) in the car interior if he’s wearing gloves while he’s moving it?

How does he spill droplets of his own blood (from the cut on his finger) in the car interior if he’s wearing gloves while he’s moving it?

How do you know he was wearing gloves – maybe he wiped the door handles, steering wheel, etc clean afterwards.

That’s how they catch murderers – they make a mistake and overlook something.

The bloke has an IQ of 70. Master criminal he is not. Even the forensics team were saying they didn’t think they could clean the place so well and they are a forensics team.

Plenty of room for reasonable doubt I think.

teef

How do you know he was wearing gloves – maybe he wiped the door handles, steering wheel, etc clean afterwards.

I don’t but that then begs the question how did he avoid getting any of his DNA in the car anywhere else (other than under the bonnet)?

They found DNA from his sweat under the bonnet. The same DNA they found on the key. But nowhere else in the car. So if he’s bleeding profusely from an open wound, he bleeds on the door handles, he bleeds on the wheel, he bleeds on the gear stick, he bleeds on the key, he bleeds on the ignition. He manages to foresically clean all of this blood off but misses three very obvious blood stains. And he gets DNA from his sweat under the bonnet, but leaves no finger prints in the typically oily, dirty environment of a car engine bay ❓

He also leaves her blood in the boot. How and why? Bloody fascinating at any rate.

I don’t but that then begs the question how did he avoid getting any of his DNA in the car anywhere else (other than under the bonnet)?

Because he didn’t clean it thoroughly enough – He made a mistake and overlooked something.

teef

Because he didn’t clean it thoroughly enough – He made a mistake and overlooked something.

Right I can see you’re not going to give anything on that premise, let me try something else. How do you explain that Avery’s DNA was on Halbach’s key, but none of Halbach’s DNA was?

How did Avery and Dassey shoot her 11 times and neither of them had any gun shot residue on them? How could they forensically clean that entire garage full of shit, and leave it a dirty garage full of shit.

They clean up every drop of blood, every trace of DNA but they don’t bother to lift shell casings and a bullet.

Finished this last night. Bonkers, kept waiting for the final twist and the sheriffs dept to get their comeuppance only for it never to happen. Can’t believe the levels of corruption and negligence, does anyone know if the series has prompted any action?