Nerve pins & needles

Hi all,
I have been on this forum before with issues with my right knee. Unfortunately I am back again. I seem to have narrowed the issue down to nerve problem within the base of my back, I am seeing a physio who is helping with the back but the throbbing on the outside of the knee is still hanging around. I can ride pain free on a exercise bike but then the next day my knee throbs.

Any help at all would be much appreciated as I have run out of ideas & just want to ride my bike 🙁

Cheers in advance
Geordienige

Nerve probs take a long time to pass – if whatever the cause of the problem is alleviated by the phyio it could take 6 to 12 months from there for any improvement to become apparent…. if it ever does.

You could get further investigation perhaps – its possible get get Nerve Function Tests which would at least confirm the physio’s assessment in a way that has a measure and have a bench mark to assess improvements (or otherwise) against.

They’re not for the queazy – imagine having acupuncture – then having a set of crocodile clips attached to the needles and being pulsed by increasing electric jolts. Basically its exactly that – Its actually very difficult not to swear.

Thanks maccruiskeen, I looked into getting a nerve function test which was really expensive – do you know any other routes that I could go down?

Stick with the physio. It will take time and throwing money at it wont speed things up.

Thanks, someone recommended pilates could help, what do you think? What is your experience of nerve pain as it is really getting me down

It’s worth a go.

Why would it be expensive? Do you live in the colonies?

It was only expensive because I looked at going private – I am assuming there will be a waiting list to go with the NHS if it is possible?

Hi maccruiskeen,
I have an appointment with the doctors in a weeks time, how do I get to the position where they recommend I have the nerve function test?
Also what is your experience of this issue?

I’m on my phone so might expand on this later. I managed to mysteriously upset the nerves in my lower legs- shins tops of feet numb and the muscles switched off. Couldn’t walk properly or drive. Rushed into hospital for fear it was gbs or ms which it wasn’t. Never pinned down a diagnosis and it spontaneously righted itself 4 or 5 months later.

Nerve function tests came a little late in the day as the situation was righting itself so althought I had the tests I was signed off as well before I saw a neurologist.

Where I live neurologists all but don’t exist so the wait for the tests was just the wait for the neurologist to order one. So the order of things would be gp> neurologist> tests>neurologist again. No point having the tests without someone to interpret them.
Your gp will know if the wait is ilkley to be a long one.

Edit – auto correct seems to know I’m in Yorkshire today!

When you see your gp, be really clear about the nature of this sensation – to me pins and needles means something different to throbbing.

So, clarify for yourself how it feels, timescale, how often it’s like this and what you’ve done so far to address it. That way you can give your gp a fair chance of making a good decision. Don’t forget to mention your back problem and what the physio has said & done about that.

I’ve had nerve problems following a motoring accident where I was rear-ended. 😯
Obviously my insurance company’s ambulance chasing solicitors were keen to get me some hugely expensive private physio, but as I have no reason to inflate the costs of my claim I thought I’d use the NHS that I already pay for.
As it happens, they could fit me in sooner than the private clinic and were excellent.
Yay for the (privately run by Circle group) NHS! 😀

Thanks guys really much appreciated. I feel this has escalated from what was an irritating pain on the outside of my rig knee two summers ago to lower back pain and throbbing / pins and needles down my right leg. All I want to do is ride my bike 🙁
I have seen four independent physios and only the last one looked at my back as the cause, the other three went between itb syndrome & cartilage tears. Against my better judgement I had an arthroscopy last August and they found nothing wrong.
I was starting to get better and then a gentle 6 mile ride triggered everything off again
The latest Physio is really good but I seem to get to a 30min / 5 mile threshold where I can’t get any further. Two summers ago I was racing 80km xc races.
It is good to just talk about it with like minded people as I miss riding a lot!,
Thanks again
Nige

Get thee to a gp and stop farting about with private stuff, physio included. No reason not to be getting physio on the nhs. Getting surgery on the basis of a hunch is totally nuts. Private health ‘care’ in a nut shell. Wait til your dying – then they’ll totally **** you over to get at your wallet.

One of the three physios was NHS Physio and she recommended that I ride through the pain

In healthcare there are patients that those who work in that area might refer to as being a “stoater” or a “whopper”. Those patients typically present with a whole host of symptoms which have no pattern or interlinked relationship. They are also open to suggestion – i.e. the “professional” suggests a symptom and the patient suddenly gets that symptom and holds onto it, and it grows. These stoaters and whoppers never do what the professional tells them and they go from pillar to post and back again to get someone else to fix the problem.

The question you need to ask yourself is are you a stoater or a whopper, or have you really tried everything and done everything that the professionals have told you to do?

I’m interested to hear the whole story behind the arthroscopy and everything that led upto you going down that route. I’m interested because I have a meniscal tear at present, and have been advised that there is no real evidence that repair leads to a better outcome than non-operative management unless there is severe reduction in function. From what you have written you appear to have a wee bit of pain and a bit of pins and needles, and not a lot else symptom wise. Therefore I am inclined to agree with the NHS physio and that you may benefit from pushing through your discomfort and see what happens. If it makes things worse then you have an idea of what makes it worse, if it doesn’t then it’s happy days.

I’ve had a nerve test through the NHS for an on going foot problem but went through a lot of other departments before I got to the nerve test. Unless you don’t like needles the test is nothing to worry about.

One of the three physios was NHS Physio and she recommended that I ride through the pain

Try and alway refer back to your GP – Physio should be on the GPs recommendation – surgery should be on your GPs recommendation – whether you do that privately or through the NHS is up to you, if a physio recommends something report that back you your GP from there go down whatever route you take next and report back – don’t go from specialist on to specialist – someone needs to have an overview.

Anyway back to Nerve Tests. Like I said I had symptoms from the knees down but previously had suffered sciatica in one leg (fearsome fiery, shaking, crampy agony form arse to toe) and still have residual numbness in my sole and toe. Without having had an trauma to cause the new, symmetrical peripheral neuropathy the point of the nerve tests was to try and identify where along the nerve pathway the problem was and also how partial or complete the ‘blockage’ was. So I was pricked and jolted from the tops of my feet all the way up to my lower back.

Where it could be useful in your instance is it would confirm where the nerve problem is emanating from. If you had one now and one is say a years time you’d also have an indication as to whether any course of action you’re taking in terms of physio therapy or surgery is measurably making a difference. These things are quite subjective, change if it happens would be slow and gradual change would be hard to perceive so a measure to compare against would be useful if this has being going on for some time. It might also show that nothing is making a difference (better or worse) and you can just relax get on with your life

My peripheral neuropathy got better. The sciatica related sole/left little numbness hasn’t and can pretty much be guaranteed be like that for good. So I’ve stopped worrying about it.

Okay guys here is my full story from the outset – June/July 2013 develop irritating pain on the outside of my right knee after a couple of long road rides in Spain. I come back and go to see a private physio on the recommendation from a cycling friend. The physio gives me exercises and stretches as he thinks the pain is a minor cartilage tear. I try the exercises for a number of weeks and the pain starts to get gradually worse (dull toothache and pins and needles). The physio refers me to visit my GP and as you have both said this should have been my first course of action, my bad!
I go to my GP, he sends me to an extended scope specialist through NHS who thinks it is ITB syndrome. He gives me exercises and stretches to do which i do diligently for 4-6 weeks and the pain is still there. He then sends me for an MRI scan. MRI shows meniscal irritation and minor synovitis on the outside of the right knee. The NHS extended scope guy recommends me for NHS physio. I go for NHS physio and this is where the NHS lady doesn’t really know what is wrong and recommends I ride through it. I try this and the pain gets worse where I have a week working from home on my bed with ice and heat every hr. I stick with her exercises and the pain gets worse and worse. Back to the NHS extended scope guy who recommends I go and see a rheumatologist through NHS. Rheumatologist thinks it is mechanical probably bad case of ITB but there are no real ITB symptoms – no sharp pain, no pain when going downstairs, etc. He gives me a steroid injection which doesn’t do anything so he recommends that I go and see a surgeon.
I go to see a surgeon through the NHS and he assesses me, pushes his thumb on the outside of my right knee and I am in excruciating pain. He, yes the NHS doctor recommends the arthroscopy surgery. I go back to my private physio and he agrees that the surgery will do no harm and will eliminate any tears or bone chips, etc. The NHS physio also agreed so against my better judgement I went ahead with the arthroscopy in Aug last year.
I would not recommend arthroscopy as my knee is not right since the operation.

With no support from the NHS after the arthroscopy at all I go back to private but a new guy who look at the whole body and not just the knee. he was recommended through single track forum. He found pain in my lower back that I didn’t know I had and with treatment from him it got better. I also started strength work for the first time in almost 18 months as my knee would allow it and things were looking up. Fast forward to end of Feb where I go to centre parcs with the family and ride 2-3 miles per day and then 6 miles on the Friday and my knee seems to be close back to where it was before the operation, constant throbbing and pins and needles down the right shin.

Okay I may not have followed every single exercise that the physio had recommended, but I have given it a really good try and the knee was getting better so I tried a slightly longer ride.

I am now booked back in to see the GP on Tuesday and lets see where we go from here.

My biggest regret was going to see the consultant because the consultants tool is surgery so he/she will recommend surgery. When I asked him after the operation why he recommended surgery when nothing was found he could not give me an answer.

If you see my history I followed the NHS route right through to surgery and met who two of the top knee doctors in Cambridge and I am still no further forward. I went back to the private physio for advice but always followed the GP route.

I have now gone back to private as I didn’t rate the NHS physio and I think that the private physio is helping as he has found something going on in the lower back.

Nigel

I’ve had a similar pins and needles caused by an inflamed nerve in my neck which caused pins and needles down my entire right hand side of my body.

Got my GP to refer me to a private neurologist as they suggested an MRI ( after doing various other tests) to identify the issue and the private MRI was within a week or NHS was 6 months.
As it stopped my doing anything useful i just went private.
Got an MRI – got diagnosed and then got steriods as treatment – within a month it was getting better to the point of been able to use my right hand again.

Still have pins and needles constantly due to the damage after 12 years but its only faint and don’t really notice it any more except when my hand is cold.

If you can afford it – get it fixed.
I know its the same doctors – but the waiting is non-existent.

The NHS extended scope guy recommends me for NHS physio.

Strange given that the extended scope guy would probably be a physio.