Neovite Colostrum – I think I have heard everything now!!!

Yep, I can’t say colostrum helped, but if I did something silly again in the future… I would be buying some more colostrum!

Yep, I can’t say that colostrum had any effect, but I was amazed by the combination of it and good rehab, so much so, I would buy it again if I ever managed to do something so silly in the future!

Years back I had a back injury that the doctor told me meant I’d not likely row again which was pretty tough news as I was pretty serious about the sport to say the least. Two weeks later I was back in the boat (though admittedly I was careful and with hindsight it would have been sensible to leave it a bit longer). I didn’t use colostrum. Prognosis from doctors are typically just an average – some people defy the odds and recover faster.

Once again, my point is that the product might work but that’s all we know – there just doesn’t seem to be proof that it does and the AIS results seem pretty damning for me – milkman, how do you respond to them? If they tried the product I’m pretty confident that if they thought it worked they’d still be using it.

A reminder of what they said:

• Colostrum is a protein-rich substance secreted in breast milk in the first few days after a mother has given birth. Colostrum is rich in immunoglobulins and insulin-like growth factors (IGFs).
• The gut of a baby has “leaky” junctions that allow it to absorb proteins, like immunoglobulins to develop its own immune system. By contrast, most experts believe that adults do not have “leaky” junctions and hence are unable to absorb these proteins.
• Commercial colostrum supplements are typically produced from bovine (cow) sources. These supplements are intended for chronic use and are claimed to improve exercise performance and recovery, and possibly to have beneficial effects on body composition (increasing lean muscle tissue).
• To date, a small number of studies have been conducted and published in peer-reviewed literature. Although these studies are well-controlled and have involved long-term supplementation with several commercially available colostrum supplements, they have been unable to show consistent or universal improvement of athletic performance. However, one study has shown that a short-lived benefit may occur immediately after periods of intensified training due to a reduction in residual fatigue (Shing et al. 2006).
• There is little evidence of an enhanced outcome of training on changes in body mass or body composition.
• The possibility of a reduced risk of illness with colostrum supplementation still requires careful long-term research.
• A mechanism by which colostrum supplementation may benefit athletes remains speculative. While a few studies indicate that colostrum supplementation increases concentrations of serum IGF-1 and salivary immunoglobulins, other studies have failed to demonstrate these findings (Mero et al. 2002).
• In summary, further research is required to demonstrate that colostrum supplementation benefits performance and to identify the athlete group most likely to benefit from supplementation.

Situations for use in Sport
• Due to the lack of current evidence for use in sport, colostrum should be used with discretion.
• It may be beneficial to improve performance within a few days of completing a high intensity training block but this benefit is diminished after 1 week of rest.

http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrition/supplements/supplement_fact_sheets/group_a_supplements2/colostrum

Anyway, I have a PhD to write… so I will let you all argue about Colostrum some more.

But to conclude, I like it!

I am in support of Milkman here,

Purely Ancedotal evidence, but a year ago I managed a full laceration of the vastus medialis muscle (google/wikipedia it) from a 203mm disk brake rotor which needed an air ambulance and surgery to stitch the muscle back together.

I have the luxury of working with some excellent scientists (at Aberystwyth University – no hiding here!) and I consumed colostrum everyday for around a month whilst my physio worked her magic.

Within TWO months I was back on my road bike with (almost) full function of my leg… from COMPLETELY chopping a muscle in half!

I can’t say for sure that the colostrum helped, it may have been the physio, maybe I am a just quick healer… but whatever it was, I was opperational somewhat sooner than the ‘at least six months’ that the surgon suggested!

Jon

There you go LabMonkey 🙂

Cheers Foxyrider!

It’s a lot like those people that say they had an accident when wearing a helmet and the helmet saved their lives… Unless you have one without, how do you prove that?

🙂

gives you cancer though
Insulin like growthfactor I is on the ingredients list…

Oncology. 2002;63(4):317-32.
The role of the IGF system in cancer: from basic to clinical studies and clinical applications.

Moschos SJ, Mantzoros CS.

Division of Endocrinology, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Harvard Medical School, Boston, Mass 02215, USA.
Abstract

Insulin-like growth factors (IGFs) are important mediators of growth, development, and survival, are synthesized by almost any tissue in the body, and their action is modulated by a complex network of molecules, including binding proteins, proteases and receptors, which all comprise the IGF system. Evidence from in vitro and animal studies suggests that overexpression of IGFs by cancer cells and/or the nearby stroma as well as the type IGF-I receptor by the cancer cells may play a significant role in establishing a transformed phenotype in an increasing number of malignancies. More specifically, IGFs may promote cell cycle progression and inhibition of apoptosis either by directly associating with other growth factors or indirectly by interacting with other molecular systems which have an established role in carcinogenesis and cancer promotion, such as the steroid hormones and integrins. In addition, a growing number of epidemiologic studies suggest that increased serum levels of IGFs and/or altered levels of their binding proteins are associated with increased risk for developing several malignancies. These data indicate that IGF dysregulation should now be considered as an important independent factor for cancer risk, and a potential target for novel antineoplastic therapies and/or preventative strategies in high-risk groups.

It’s a lot like those people that say they had an accident when wearing a helmet and the helmet saved their lives… Unless you have one without, how do you prove that?

True but it at least seems a sensible option to stop you gouging big chunks of flesh out ya skull 😉

It’s a lot like those people that say they had an accident when wearing a helmet and the helmet saved their lives… Unless you have one without, how do you prove that?

Very true!

But as a research scientist, albeit in a slightly different field (cardio-respiratory physilogy, or oxygen uptake kinetics to be more precise) I woud be convinced enough by the theoretical background to take a chance on Colostrum… ‘maybe’ the evidence is not strong enough to date to say fo sure whether it works…

But I would take the chance on it, rather than not, if I have another severe accident. I would not however buy it long term as the cost is too high as a preventative suppliment.

My two cents, and look, I am avoiding my work again!

Cheers, Jon

Well that is your personal choice but someone is making money out of it – that is the irritating part of it from my point of view.

I could suggest buying a special blend of oils from me that may help prevent premature hair loss. I have made it up from supermarket oils to my secret recipe – its called an unsubstanitated claim – would you not be a little miffed if you had spent £100’s on my product to find out it didn’t work and I had bought a villa in the Maldives with the proceeds 🙂

The above is hypothelitcal and is no way related to Neovite colostrum 🙂

I have no problem selling something that has a well proven track record, however odd it sounds. BTW to be fair is there any other company out there selling colostrum for this purpose?

Well that is your personal choice but someone is making money out of it – that is the irritating part of it from my point of view capitalism.

Wanna see my new bike build ? It’s 79% stiffer than my previous frame

Point taken SP 😉

Wow – this argument hasn’t broken out into swearing and slagging people off personally yet?

I could suggest buying a special blend of oils from me that may help prevent premature hair loss. I have made it up from supermarket oils to my secret recipe

Hmmmm…

its called an unsubstanitated claim

Yes, but I ‘understand’ how growth factors etc work, and I ‘believe’ that colostrum cotains such growth factors… and therefore the ‘unsubstanitated’ evidence is strong enough in MY OPINION to take the chance!

Is it not similar to say a tyre manufacturer suggesting that a certain tyre works better then another (of their own brand) in certain conditions… then people go out and buy said ‘better’ tyre on the back of their advertising?

BTW I also know how growth factors work – doesn’t mean They work in-situ from an animal like a cow in humans?

* Neither natural nor synthetic bovine growth hormone has been found to affect human growth hormone receptors.
* IGF-1 concentrations are slightly higher (to variable degrees, depending on the study) in milk from cows treated with rBGH than in untreated milk. This variability is presumed to be much less than the normal variation of IGF-1 in cow’s milk attributable to parity and stage of lactation, but more investigation is needed.
* IGF-1 in milk is not denatured (inactivated) by pasteurization. The extent to which intact, pharmacologically active IGF-1 is absorbed through the human gastrointestinal tract remains uncertain.
* One study estimated that the additional amount of IGF-1 that might be absorbed by humans, assuming no degradation and complete absorption, represents 0.8% of normal gastrointestinal secretion and 0.09% of the daily production of IGF-1 in adults.
* Before approving the use of rBGH in 1993, the FDA calculated a worst case scenario that assumed that an infant drinks 1.5 liters (1 liter is approximately 1 quart) of milk daily with complete absorption of intact IGF-1 protein, and the maximum increase in IGF-1. Under these conditions, the rBGH treated milk would contribute far less than 1% of the infant’s normal daily production of IGF-1.

Have you any papers that prove the bovine growth factors you quote have a significant effect on the cell receptors in humans? Did you know that human IGF-1 is structually different from bovine IGF-1? Do you have training in the medical field?

Some of the components in the clostrum are clearly incredibly useful in post natal infants, however the thought of introducing things like gonadotrophin and assorted growth hormones has got to be a borderline situation with regards to doping. I’m just waiting until testing becomes even more sensitive and we will see what happens as it will be near impossible for something like this to not contain minute levels of banned substances. I await some more contador style revelations with interest.

Oh and Kimbers do some work you idle git.

Lab Monkey – my issue is with people making claims that is not borne out by the research and claiming it is.

It seems like a lot of new research – you chuck something at a problem and see if you gets results. Not a problem if its pure research but if there is money involved i.e. funding of the research to find the best way of selling that product then unless its honest and double blind and of a significant size to be statistically significant then I am always sceptical !!!

execise induced diarhoea and vomiting

! Does anyone else feel less of a man coz they haven’t gone out and trained till they simultaneously puked and filled their shorts?

kimbers
IGF-1 is a normal secretion in saliva. It acts to trigger gut repair when its receptors are exposed as in the case with ulceration. EGF has similar properties. These molecules are too large to cross the gut barrier to the bloodstream.

Give me a call and I’ll put you in touch with research gastroenterologist Prof Raymond Playford who has studied the clinical use of growth factors to heal gut damage or at least you should check his publications on PubMed.
here’s a video interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq4J9kfN_Q0

No need to worry about long term exposure either. For millenia Kenya’s Masai have drunk fresh ox blood, raw milk and fresh colostrum from cattle and goats, all very rich in growth factors, without dying out from cancers. In fact they are famously successful as pastoralists and live to great ages with a reputation as top endurance runners and warriors. Not many are scientists though, I guess you can’t have it all.

! Does anyone else feel less of a man coz they haven’t gone out and trained till they simultaneously puked and filled their shorts?

I’ve found that I black out before that happens…

Blimey – he says nothing – he is just excited in investigating it – apart from saying it protects the gut from exercised induced “leakyness” !!! Come one you gotta do better than that?

BTW are all of the the growth factors not denatured by drying and pasturisation Milkman?

Not a problem if its pure research but if there is money involved i.e. funding of the research to find the best way of selling that product then unless its honest and double blind and of a significant size to be statistically significant then I am always sceptical !!!

Careful here – At Aberystwyth University we are all about the science!

Do you have training in the medical field?

I am not an expert in this field, I have read a few papers and spoken to some more informed collegues about this subject.

My area of research involves human bioenergetics and exercise tolerance – but don’t get me started on that or we will be here all day!

Wow – this argument hasn’t broken out into swearing and slagging people off personally yet?

I am a polite chap, so i won’t be drwan into such behaviour!

As Milkman is has returned I will let him fight his own corner as he is moreinformed on this subject!

I am a polite chap, so i won’t be drwan into such behaviour!

I wasn’t taking about you LM 😉 Can I ask who funded the research?

i’m a little confused.

is this product just powdered milk – from a cow that has just given birth so not what you get in Sainsbury’s, but still powdered milk?

heatstroke is the result of gut leakiness when poisons (enterotoxins) enter the bloodstream. enterotoxins can lead to organ failure and heart attack and can trigger autoimmune disorders. its about time you guys stopped playing around and took this seriously. give me a call, it’s the best offer you’ll get today.

Maybe a few more success stories will help you arch-sceptics.

No – because you don’t know if they’d have succeeded without the colostrum, clearly.

Science FAIL 🙂

I wasn’t taking about you LM Can I ask who funded the research?

For that particular study I believe that Neovite provided the Colostrum and the study itself was funded by the University – But I may be wrong as I was not part of that research group.

But then, who funds the project SHOULD NOT matter – if it doesn’t work then it doesn’t work – end of story!

I do agree that claims should not be made on products without scientific evidence to back up such claims.

As molgrips says, that’s the problem – there seems to be little/no proof that it actually works and having top athletes use it proves nothing no matter how many you can get to endorse it, particularly as I would expect them to be paid in some way to do so (correct me if I’m wrong on that), particularly when something like the AIS comments as it has. What’s your response to the AIS’s summary?

Milkman – Member

heatstroke is the result of gut leakiness when poisons (enterotoxins) enter the bloodstream. enterotoxins can lead to organ failure and heart attack and can trigger autoimmune disorders. its about time you guys stopped playing around and took this seriously. give me a call, it’s the best offer you’ll get today.

Now that is just bullshine of the highest order.

heatstroke is the result of gut leakiness when poisons (enterotoxins) enter the bloodstream. enterotoxins can lead to organ failure and heart attack and can trigger autoimmune disorders. its about time you guys stopped playing around and took this seriously. give me a call, it’s the best offer you’ll get today.

Oh dear, Heat stroke is not the result in gut leaking it is due to hyperthermia and the resulting disturbances in physiology due to the function of enzymes and similar biochemical pathways due to the narrow tollerance our bodies have to altered internal temperature?

I think you mean “Some of the gastrointestinal symptoms of acute exertional heat stroke, such as vomiting, diarrhea, and gastrointestinal bleeding, may be caused by barrier dysfunction and subsequent endotoxemia. Ultraendurance athletes have been found to have significantly increased plasma endotoxin levels. Endotoxin stimulates many inflammatory cytokines, which in turn may cause multiorgan dysfunction. Furthermore, monkeys treated with oral antibiotics prior to induction of heat stroke do not become endotoxemic.”

Looks like you have been scanning Wikipedia but failing on the interpretation Milkman?

I have never heard such a load of cr@p in my life – even worse than sugary probiotic drinks!!

Haven’t read any of Foxy’s posts after reading this as the above statement is ill-informed crap so the rest probably is too. My ex works for one of these ‘probiotic’ company’s. The evidence of efficacy is huge in reduction of c.diff, G.I. upsets etc. which is why sales are rocketing in hospitals.

Woody – were not talking about pro-biotics here – which do have efficacy in the right field i.e. establishment of normal gastrointestinal flora in diseased patients surely? Colostrum is not a pro-biotic Woody and in my opinion healthy people DO NOT NEED TO USE PROBIOTIC DRINKS! Perhaps if you read this thread you might actually know what we are arguing about?

The evidence of efficacy is huge in reduction of c.diff, G.I. upsets etc. which is why sales are rocketing in hospitals.

Probiotics for treatment of Clostridium difficile-associated colitis in adults yes, normal healthy people no?

Oh I give up………………………………………

Not exactly up to date, the AIS statement was published in 2008 so doesn’t include the Aberystyth study. Australian user, swimmer Leisel Jones is on the record as endorsing colostrum produced there as part of her nutrition, but I guess that won’t count either.

I provide free product to universities for their studies but do not pay for the trials, these costs are borne by the universities.

I would not pay any money for endorsements as this will render their opinions worthless.

0800 24 25 123, still no callers. go on

On the matter of gut permeability leading to heat stroke, we’ve done the human clinical trials to show cause and effect, we’ve done the lab work to show the effect of incubating gut cells at 39 celsius and we established the beneficial effect of colostrum both in the incubated gut cells and in the human study. you’re going to have to wait publication or you’re going to have to call, it’s up to you.

Most research papers are concluded with the words:

“more research in required”

I think with bovibe colostrum, this is also the case!

Perhaps if you read this thread you might actually know what we are arguing about?

Perhaps if you had read my post you would know why I haven’t.

gut permeability leads to heatstroke? Really? Nothing to do with heat then?

Piffle

swimmer Leisel Jones is on the record as endorsing colostrum

but that’s the problem – random endorsements by people who my or may not have had success without a product is not ‘proof’.

How many people have taken this product and then failed to gain an Olympic medal?

Heat leads to gut permeability. Permeability can lead to toxic shock from enterotoxins. Exercise at high aerobic levels leads to a rise in core temperature even at moderate ambient temperatures. We recorded an average 2 degree rise in core temperature after running for 20 minutes at 80 %VO2 max. Try it yourself. You will need to use the thermometer by the dark route.

You can check for more on PubMed science database. There are animal studies showing permeability effects at 41 degrees body temperature, but I’m not sure I’d want to push human subjects that far. Similar results in Alaskan huskies.

so far nobody has rung. this must be embarassing for you guys. It’s STF who are are coming across badly now, are you just anonymous nay-sayers.