N+1 suggestions….

Suggestions please on n+1.
This one for “all mountain / trail riding”….Im generally a bit of a weight weenie – like going up hill as fast as I can, but think I need something with a bit more beef for Lakeland riding (my locality) and one-week-a-year-if-Im-lucky Alps trip.
Had a SC TallBoy last yrs trip but I guess I might be the only owner in the UK to admit to being slightly underwhelmed…. Its since been nicked.
Cant justify that sort of price tag now, so open to suggestions. Love my On One 456 hardtail – long and racey, so prob need something with a long cockpit and a bit more travel than the TallBoy. Might even consider 650B!

Grab an Anthem 29 from Pauls Cycles for £1500. You be overwelmed with unassuming it is it I can assured you. 26.8lb out of the box.

I’d have a Five 29 or Remedy 29 if I was in your shoes.

TheNorthernMonkey

This one for “all mountain / trail riding”

Kryton57

Grab an Anthem 29 from Pauls Cycles for £1500.

So an XC bike for “all mountain / trail riding” ?

OP, what’s your budget? Your average sub 2k “am/enduro” bike will be about 32lbs – 35lbs with silly paper thin tyres and ultra light tubes. Obviously the more you spend, the lighter it’ll get. You can get a 160mm bike down pretty light and still keep it reasonably tough. It’s worth remembering that 650b wheels and tyres will be considerably lighter than 29s.

Anthem SX, as ever.

XCish, but with added gnarrrr.

Available in standard flava;

and pimpery Advanced version (Not 100% if this one is coming to the UK, though)

I bought an Anthem 29er X4 from Pedalon… then changed a few bits… It’s a stunning bike! Really quick, but such good fun on the descents too.

Nice looking codeine in the classifieds
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/fs-on-one-codiene-29-brand-new-must-go-to-highest-sensible-offer

So an XC bike for “all mountain / trail riding” ?

Anthems are far more capable than they have any right being on decents, and really “trail” is just the sexy marketing term for XC. You can ride a HT in the Lakes, an Anthem has 100mm more travel than that, but only 30mm less than an enduro bike. Pidgeon holeing bikes so specificaly is just something the marketing departments did to convince us to buy n+1.

Having said that, for the Lakes a Trance would be even beter.

thisisnotaspoon, the Anthem SX above splits the difference. Essentially an Anthem back end with a Trance(ish) front end. Phattta tyres, dropper post and wider bars, too.

Very, very capable.

Nothing with 29 in wheels for the Alps/tech Lakes would be my 2 cents. Get another 26er or if you want a complete bike a 27.5. I also think the Trance type suggestions are too close to your 456. My two bikes for exactly the same combo as you are BFe and Covert. How about something from NukeProof and I would favor the AM vs the TR to broaden the difference between the two bikes. Lots of good choices but I say go more 140/160mm AM than trail bikes

thisisnotaspoon – Member
Anthems are far more capable than they have any right being on decents,

I’ve ridden one. They are good for an xc bike. That’s it.

thisisnotaspoon – Member
really “trail” is just the sexy marketing term for XC.

No, it’s not. I understand there are a lot of marketing buzz words and bullshit about, but having different terms helps differentiate. It’s better than just having the word mountainbikes. That would be more confusing. Something like a Anthem SX, Meta Hiphop or a Ghost AMR might have 100-130mm of travel but they are not xc bikes. They are trail bikes. There’s a big difference, you are wrong.

thisisnotaspoon – Member
Anthem has 100mm more travel than that, but only 30mm less than an enduro bike.

Lets look at the EWS to see what constitutes an “Enduro bike”. Ah, it’s 160mm across the board pretty much. Okay. That’s that settled.

thisisnotaspoon – Member
You can ride a HT in the Lakes,
Having said that, for the Lakes a Trance would be even beter.

So which is it? 140mm or 0mm? Why does the Trance even exist? What is it? Is it an XC bike? Could it be a trail bike? Isn’t “trail” just a sexy buzzword for XC? Who would want one when the Anthem descends so well? It must just be cynical marketing bs. Maybe the op just wants more travel.

Isn’t trail just a sexy buzzword for XC?

I think XC is now generally considered to be lycra clad riders on 100mm hardtails. Trail is 120+ travel bikes for riders in baggies, probably riding exactly the same terrain as XC but slower.

Lets look at the EWS to see what constitutes an “Enduro bike”.

EWS is a race series though, isn’t that a bit like looking at XC racing to see what your average non-racing XC rider should be riding?

Nothing with 29 in wheels for the Alps/tech Lakes would be my 2 cents

My tuppence would be they work best on rocky stuff. If not 29″, I’d definately be looking at 650b, or basicly as big a wheel as you can package without comprimising something else. I don’t really think anyone under 6ft or riding a large frame size would be better served by smaller wheels.

jimjam – Member

Have I done somthing to personaly upset you? Just my oppinion, I’ve gone back to ‘XC’ bikes from big trail/enduro bikes. The OP said

Im generally a bit of a weight weenie – like going up hill as fast as I can, but think I need something with a bit more beef for Lakeland riding

That to me does not sound like he wants a 160mm Enduro bike. I’ve ridden a 160mm enduro bike roudn the lakes, it’s really bloomin hard work when the climbs aren’t nice smooth fireroads and your riding buddies aren’t riding similalry slow climbing bikes. Something like that Anthem SX or a Trance would fit the bill much better.

mrblobby – Member
I think XC is now generally considered to be lycra clad riders on 100mm hardtails. Trail is 120+ travel bikes for riders in baggies, probably riding exactly the same terrain as XC but slower.

Sorry but when was xc not lycra clad riders on 100mm bikes? When the bikes were rigid perhaps.

EWS is a race series though, isn’t that a bit like looking at XC racing to see what your average non-racing XC rider should be riding?

XC is a race series too, so I am baffled by your comparison. Thisisnotaspoon stated that 130mm was an enduro bike. If you want to see what works as “enduro” look at what wins.

thisisnotaspoon
Have I done somthing to personaly upset you? Just my oppinion, I’ve gone back to ‘XC’ bikes from big trail/enduro bikes. The OP said

Absolutely not. If I contradict you or my post is missing smiley faces, doesn’t mean I am attacking you. Only disagreeing with you.

jimjam – Member
thisisnotaspoon – Member
Anthems are far more capable than they have any right being on decents,
I’ve ridden one.

They are good for an xc bike. That’s it.

Have you ridden one? I mean properly? In the last two weeks I smashed all my strava records – up and down – in Afan on a new stock Anthem 29er I’d never ridden more than once, on a wet day in Wales, that were previously set on an ASR5 I’d owned for 2 and a half years on gloriously sunny dry trails the previous year.

Have I done somthing to personaly upset you?

I think I must have too! Maybe he’s having a bad day.

Sorry but when was xc not lycra clad riders on 100mm bikes? When the bikes were rigid perhaps.

Yes, it’s always been that. What I meant is that “trail” seems to have sprung from a desire to differentiate from it.

XC is a race series too, so I am baffled by your comparison.

I guess what I’m trying to say is if you want to be competitive in a race series then it’s sensible to look at what’s successful in that series when choosing what to ride. If you’re not racing and it’s more about fun then it’s less relevant and you pick something that will give you personally the most enjoyable experience on the terrain you ride. The most fun bike over an “enduro” course for you may not be an enduro race bike.

I smashed all my strava records

😆 🙂

mrblobby
I think I must have too! Maybe he’s having a bad day.

Sorry lads, don’t take it personally. No insult is intended but I’m going to call you on something if I disagree.

trail” seems to have sprung from a desire to differentiate from it.

Or perhaps it spung from the desire to have a bike that’s just a bit more forgiving than an xc bike.

I guess what I’m trying to say is if you want to be competitive in a race series then it’s sensible to look at what’s successful in that series when choosing what to ride. If you’re not racing and it’s more about fun then it’s less relevant and you pick something that will give you personally the most enjoyable experience on the terrain you ride. The most fun bike over an “enduro” course for you may not be an enduro race bike.

In a horribly confusing way, we are in agreement.

Why the eye roll?

Its just an indicative measure of speed across a course. If I’d hadn’t of mentioned it you would have no doubt moaned about how exactly that I was judging that I was fatser.

Accuracy isn’t the issue unless it was seconds either way, but we are talking – 20 to 40 seconds over 5 minutes of hard riding, being faster on wet trails than dry.

Okay, I just edited that to imply more humour and less derision. I’d believe a stopwatch before Strava though. More and more I find it woefully inaccurate by a factor of 15 to 30 seconds.

Sorry lads, don’t take it personally. No insult is intended but I’m going to call you on something if I disagree.

No problem jimjam. Though just because you disagree that doesn’t mean it not a valid/correct opinion 🙂

Don’t particularly like the “it must be better because Strava says I’m faster” thing either. May be faster but unless you’re racing then what does it matter? Strava doesn’t tell you anything about which is the most fun, enjoyable, involving, rewarding.

Edit – not the bike for you

Don’t particularly like the “it must be better because Strava says I’m faster” thing either. May be faster but unless you’re racing then what does it matter? Strava doesn’t tell you anything about which is the most fun, enjoyable, involving, rewarding.

My point was, that it wasn’t being ridden on a “typical” XC style course, yet it proved “better” – in my hands and by my measure of success. I enjoyed it a lot also, but as I do race speed is one of the rewards I got from, all though not all of them.

I was merely attempting to refute the fact one might label an Anthem 29er as only capable for the atypical “XC” remit.

Kryton57

I was merely attempting to refute the fact one might label an Anthem 29er as only capable for the atypical “XC” remit.

The other thing Kryton57 is that you’re using your ASR as a benchmark. Now I’m trying to be friendly here so remember it’s just my opinion, but I think they are horrible pieces of **** 😛 .

Yes they are expensive, yes they get good reviews, but in my humble opinion, woeful. We’re also not considering bike set up, componentry , damping, sizing, geometry, tyre choice, your fitness levels etc etc.
You going faster on a certain section on strava, tells me your new bike is better for you than your old one, but it doesn’t convince me that the Anthem is much more than a capable xc bike. Sorry.

And yes, I am an opinionated asshole.

yet it proved “better” – in my hands and by my measure of success.

I guess this is the point of this digression is that we all have our own ideas about what makes one bike “better” than another. I’m sure there are riders out there who think the Yeti is a much better bike than the Anthem and are judging on a different set of criteria (though maybe not jimjam!)

And yes, I am an opinionated asshole.

Finally something we can all agree on 😉

mrblobby

Finally something we can all agree on

🙂

OP should by a Stumpjumper. Close thread 🙂

PYGA 120 650B, will be worth considering.

There, said it. 😀

I guess this is the point of this digression is that we all have our own ideas about what makes one bike “better” than another. I’m sure there are riders out there who think the Yeti is a much better bike than the Anthem and are judging on a different set of criteria (though maybe not jimjam!)

Everyone’s entitled to an opinion, I don’t mind jimjam expressing his. Regarding ASR5’s and Anthems he’d be in a minority to class them as “rubbish”, but thats his issue. FWIW my purchase of the Anthem was not based on the fact I thought the Yeti was rubbish. In fact I loved my Yeti a lot, but I needed a bike better suited for the purpose I’m using it for in 2015, and don’t have the luxury of running two.

Only earlier I was gazing wistfully at the extra space in the shed, and the new owner is on his way home now to open the box he’s received today, whilst I’m happy for him, I’m sad to see it go.

Weird thread, I love the Anthem 29 but it’s absolutely not what the OP asked for. More travel than a tallboy, alp-ready, no.

Maybe not but:

This one for “all mountain / trail riding”….Im generally a bit of a weight weenie – like going up hill as fast as I can, but think I need something with a bit more beef for Lakeland riding (my locality) and one-week-a-year-if-Im-lucky Alps trip.

Note the points in bold. If he said he was spending 6 months in the Apls I wouldn’t have mentioned it. Very few of us base our only MTB on what we need for the one week in a year we might go to the Alps.

Reading the above then, would you suggest he buys a Nukeproof Mega Am, Orange Alpine 5, ‘Dale Jekyl for the rest of the criteria? It’d cope sure but…

Just get the bike for the main criteria and hire/borrow for the Alps if he goes.

Typical STW, find someone to pick on without thinking and flame away. My turn today huh?

It’s hardly flaming- if you want something with more travel than a Tallboy and more beef than a 456, recommendations of something with less travel and less beef aren’t that useful. If you ask for a recommendation of a red bike you don’t expect to be told that actually you want a blue bike…

He said “probably”. Your clutching at straws and ignoring the list that went before that statement.

I think the answer to the OP’s question is actually N+2.

Though TBH for lakelands a 456 is probably a great bike to be riding. It’s the sort of thing I’d choose.

26″ 2014 Spesh Stumpy Carbon evo frame from Bikescene? Good sensible all rounder without the weight penalty?

Kryton57

Typical STW, find someone to pick on without thinking and flame away. My turn today huh?

Sorry Kryton, if I was flaming you. To clarify my logic

all mountain / trail riding

All mountain(or enduro) is generally categorised as 150mm/160mm. Trail I took to mean something between 140mm – 120mm.

Alps trip

again I take to mean somewhere between 120mm- 160mm.

Love my On One 456 hardtail – long and racey, so prob need something with a long cockpit

The 456 being a 140mm to 160mm bike, again led me to believe the op would like something in this travel range. And by long and racey I took to mean enduro racey.

The op saying he’s a weight weenie and loves climbing is a bit of a moot point since there are some crazy light bikes in those categories and they clob very very well these days.

Budget? Hmmm, 2-3k tops, pre freshly lower! Happily look 2nd hand.
Codeine? Too heavy. Got to be sub 30lbs for sure.
Enduro? Don’t like the thought of that much travel. Or weight.
Mate got a low spec Anthem, cheap as, swopped bits out, loves it. Rode it in the Alps w me last yr. agrees w most posts that it’s way more capable than it has any right to be… For a “race” bike…
But I’d be inclined to agree with the not 29in wheels for Alps /Lakes. 650B could be good compromise.
MORE tyres,, yay!!

Nice looking bike Jimjam.
Incidentally my 456 is a good few yrs old – runs a100-140 TALAS. I’d been thinking 140mm w 650B would be about right. And I mean old-school races you- not Enduro.

Rocky Mountain Sherpa 650b+

Personally I think the blurred line is probably ‘Trail’ to ‘Enduro’, although I would argue that colourscheme and buildweight (and therefore price) are the distinguishing properties.

Example. I have a 140mm bike with a 150mm fork retrofitted. I’ve done Enduros on it, it happily goes up and down mountains and is also great fun for playing in the woods on the local singletrack. It’s light enough for all-day epics and hike-a-bike. It’s far more capable than me, and tbh if I excluded road stuff would make an excellent case for a ‘one bike’. I consider it a ‘trail’ bike.

I’m not convinced that supremely competent bikes aren’t actually the enemy of ‘n plus 1’, and that if you deliberately intend to gather a big collection you probably actually want a stable of one-trick ponies, but not because the marketing man told you that you had to have one for each word…