Mobile phone, battery only guaranteed for 6 months! WTF!

Got a phone and the battery has gone a bit funny, won’t hold charge!! Phoned orange up and they inform me it’s only guaranteed for six months!! Why not a year? Load of bollox!!

battery = consumable
it sucks but seemingly normal people can ruin a perfectly good battery in no time even without shorting out the contacts.

Why a year and not two? It’s just as arbitrary a number, as is six months.

They can be quite flaky, I’m afraid. C’est la vie. The reason it’s not longer is that there are many failures, so they’d end up paying out loads of money.

Does seem a bit cheeky when almost everything gets a nominal 1 year. But I suppose you wouldn’t take your car brake pads back if you used them up in 12 months, you’d just assume you’d been braking a lot.

What phone?

but brake pads are designed to wear out, batteries aren’t. there’s no way i’d accept a phone battery that had only seen normal use was of reasonable quality/fit for purpose if it lasted six months.

its all about the number of charge cycles, like miles on a car….consumable.

Why a year and not two? It’s just as arbitrary a number, as is six months.

Because the guarantee on the phone is 1 year.

http://selfhelp.carphonewarehouse.com/SelfHelp/request.do?view()=c%7B79ae2a80-f9f3-11de-da00-000000000000%7D

but brake pads are designed to wear out, batteries aren’t.

Actually batteries do wear out. Of course they’re not designed to strictly, but their use does wear them – hence consumable. Tyres are not designed to wear out but they do. Windscreen wipers are not designed to wear out, but they do. Wheel bearings are specifically designed NOT to wear out, but they do.

But you would hope for more than six months!! And as there’s car references been chucked about, what about batteries on them?? Usually min of 3 yr guarantee??

Cougar – Member

What phone?

i get what you’re saying, CK, but there’s just no way that six months life is reasonable duration for a phone battery, particularly considered against contract lengths. personally, i wouldn’t accept that response from orange or any other provider.

edit to add – i’m talking about statutory consumer protection, irrespective of what the quoted warranties are.

To be fair I would expect that a battery on a phone has an anticipated design life which would assumme charging every day and normal usage.

Certainly if its less than 6 months they have no option but to replace. If you can prove that the battery was not of suitable quality or not fit for purpose then you are entitled to a free replacement even after 6 months.

Batteries cannot really be considered a consumable. They should have an anticiapted lifespan of at least the contract length (im my opinion that is what would constitute reasonable quality and fir for purpose).

They should have an anticiapted lifespan of at least the contract length (im my opinion that is what would constitute reasonable quality and fair for purpose).

agreed.

So, what phone is it ???

I’m guessing it’s a white hole.

Batteries cannot really be considered a consumable.

sorry but they are

They should have an anticiapted lifespan of at least the contract length (im my opinion that is what would constitute reasonable quality and fir for purpose)

Should yeah, damn right they should but they don’t or atleast certain manufacturers will not warranty them for that long.

i get what you’re saying, CK, but there’s just no way that six months life is duration for a phone battery, particularly considered against contract lengths. personally, i wouldn’t accept that response from orange or any other provider.

I totally agree, I’m just thinking about it from their side (devils advocate) – if you’re a heavier phone user than average why should they guarantee it for longer? But that begs the question, if they assume an average user kills the battery in 6 months, why don’t they sort the problem with a more reliable battery?

Should yeah, damn right they should but they don’t or atleast certain manufacturers will not warranty them for that long.

Thats true and it is the manufacturers right to offer a warranty or not to offer one at all. A warranty is different from your statutory rights.

You are statutory entitled to a battery of reasonable quality and one that is fit for purpose. I would suspect that anything that does not at least last for the contract period would fall foul of this. The burden of proof changes from the manufacturer to the consumer after 6 months which not surprisingly ties up with their warranty.

On the basis that every smartphone I’ve seen needs charging daily they really need to be designed for this.

its interesting, with this the case, that some manufacturers can get away without having user replacable batteries. I can see how a battery can be considered a consumable on a device, but I disagree it should be a consumable if there’s no way for a consumer to replace it

It’s a samsung omnia, doesn’t get heavy Usage coz it’s shit!!
Just have it as my personal phone! What does make me think tho is what if the same happened to my business phone which is of the apple variety? No chance of a replacement there!

what if the same happened to my business phone which is of the apple variety?

Apple phones don’t go wrong.* 😉

*YMMV

but I disagree it should be a consumable if there’s no way for a consumer to replace it

There is, you take it to a shop who has the tools. Much like changing the brakes on your car, again.

Its a rechargeable battery hence I would not consider it a consumable. It should have an anticipated design life.

Thats not to say that it should last the same as the phone but 6 months is not reasonable.

There is, you take it to a shop who has the tools. Much like changing the brakes on your car, again

you can’t even do that with an iphone though. It has to be sent off, at a cost of £62. A car’s brake pads can be changed by yourself at home without affecting the warranty

Two year warranty on Samsung batteries, according to carphone whorehouse.

Six months according to Samsung themselves though.

Are batteries consumable? I’d suggest that disposables are, but I’d expect rechargeables to last at least a year and don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect them to last for the life of the contract. Sale of Goods Act might well apply here.

Its a rechargeable battery hence I would not consider it a consumable. It should have an anticipated design life.

Thats not to say that it should last the same as the phone but 6 months is not reasonable.
Expert on rechargeable battery technology are you?

LiPo batteries as used in mobile phones have a design life of 2 years if not used too heavily. Unfortunately a lot of smart phone use tends to be very heavy on the batteries. There are of course alternatives:
a) use a different battery technology which copes better with heavy use
b) use a larger battery and limit the discharge so that it’s not heavy use as far as the battery is concerned
c) only provide a limited warranty and reckon that those who don’t over-use the battery ought to do significantly better than that lifespan.

Unfortunately I don’t think most light users would be too impressed with the larger and heavier phones in options a and b, just so that the heavy users don’t get upset when their batteries fail early.

catfood whorehouse not carphone whorehouse, I do hate to be misquoted. Perversely I just upgraded to the iJesus4s through the catfood whorehouse and not only was it free but the customer service was excellent. I hope it remains so as the iJesus4/iJesus4s drain their batteries at quite a rate when used all day every day.

LiPo batteries as used in mobile phones have a design life of 2 years if not used too heavily.

So what you’re saying is, they’re not fit for purpose? They’ll last so long as you don’t use them?

Li-Pol isn’t much different to regular Li-Ion in terms of tech; it mostly just means they can make them in fancy shapes.

“Heavy usage,” whatever that means, isn’t directly relevant. A Li-Ion battery life is measured in charge cycles, which for a LCO (Lithium Carbon battery, such as you’d typically find in a mobile) should be around 500-1000 cycles. Ie, if you charge it every day, you should expect to get 18 months to three years out of it.

Deep discharging it (ie, storing it for an extended period of time whilst flat) or overheating it will shorten this lifespan considerably.

I don’t know what battery type is in the OP’s phone, so this may or may not apply. A quick google turns up ‘lithium polymer,’ so it probably does.

I’d argue that if it’s failed in six months, it’s faulty. Though given a genuine replacement can be had for 20 quid and a third party “extended” battery for about 27p, it’s probably only worth arguing about on a point of principle.

It’ll be a nice tale to tell Retentions in a few months when your contract runs out, mind.

And as there’s car references been chucked about, what about batteries on them?? Usually min of 3 yr guarantee??

Different technology altogether – weight is not an issue so they can be designed more robustly. What on earth made you think there were any similarities?

Anyway – they SHOULD last the duration of the contract, and often do, but like anything else they can fail at any time.

I don’t see the “Sale of Goods” argument applying if the manufacturer is clear in the marketing / sales materials that the battery has an intended life of 6months+. Even if that isn’t explicit before you get the phone it will usually be in the bumph that comes with it allowing you to return it during your cooling off period. The battery is fit for the purpose that the manufacturer intended (to power the phone for 6 months), but is not expected to last forever. Warranting batteries is tricky because their life depends on how they are charged, how hot they get, how they get abused etc… its likely that two identical phones left on charge overnight every night but where one is left with the wireless, bluetooth and gps always switched on, and one had those features turned off for 23hrs a day will have very different battery lives because one is constantly discharging at a higher rate.

“Heavy usage,” whatever that means, isn’t directly relevant. A Li-Ion battery life is measured in charge cycles, which for a LCO (Lithium Carbon battery, such as you’d typically find in a mobile) should be around 500-1000 cycles. Ie, if you charge it every day, you should expect to get 18 months to three years out of it.

Deep discharging it (ie, storing it for an extended period of time whilst flat) or overheating it will shorten this lifespan considerably.
Deep discharge is exactly what I do mean by heavy use. The thing is, if you discharge until cut-off all the time, this is what you’re doing. It’s entirely possible that a battery failing after 6 months is faulty, but the manufacturers have to account for the people who do use their phones heavily and hence significantly shorten their battery life.

What I’m saying is that if you don’t run your phone to flat all the time then your battery will be fine.

I’m not reading all this. But what I will say is that my BlackBerry is on charge all night, and charges in my hands free cradle when I’m driving. which I’m assuming is bad for the battery, but it holds charge well enough when needed

So why should the op’s battery be fecked in 6 months.

poly – Member
I don’t see the “Sale of Goods” argument applying if the manufacturer is clear in the marketing / sales materials that the battery has an intended life of 6months+. Even if that isn’t explicit before you get the phone it will usually be in the bumph that comes with it allowing you to return it during your cooling off period. The battery is fit for the purpose that the manufacturer intended (to power the phone for 6 months), but is not expected to last forever.

except you don’t buy a battery, you buy a phone that comes with a certain battery. the phone is tied to a contract of one or two years, so as part of the phone, not a stand alone item, in my opinion the battery should last at least that long or the phone itself is not fit for purpose.

I don’t see the “Sale of Goods” argument applying if the manufacturer is clear in the marketing / sales materials

Because a manufacturer cannot waive statutory rights. That’s what statutory means.

Deep discharge is exactly what I do mean by heavy use. The thing is, if you discharge until cut-off all the time, this is what you’re doing.

Well, no, it isn’t. If you discharge it until cut-off and then stick it in a drawer for six months it’ll be deep-discharged. If you run it flat and then immediately charge it up again, that’s just normal use. Modern Li-Ion batteries will cut out whilst they still have charge for exactly this reason, to prevent deep-discharge.

What I’m saying is that if you don’t run your phone to flat all the time then your battery will be fine.

I don’t disagree. What I’m saying is that if you do run your phone to flat all the time then your battery will be fine, unless it’s broken.

Modern Li-Ion batteries will cut out whilst they still have charge for exactly that reason, to prevent deep-discharge.

Normal cut-off is set high enough that you don’t damage the battery immediately – it’s generally low enough though that you’ll affect the long term life if you run to it. That 500 charge 2 year life span is for discharging to higher than the cut-off.

They could of course set the cut-off higher, but then they’d get slated for poor run-time in reviews.

That 500 charge 2 year life span is for discharging to higher than the cut-off.

Even if that’s the case(*), you should still expect more than six months out of a lithium battery unless it’s broken or been abused, no?

(*) – IIRC 500 cycles was worst-case, but I don’t have figures to hand so can’t be sure.

you should still expect more than six months out of a lithium battery unless it’s broken or been abused, no?

You should – but then again I see the manus’ point that it is possible to destroy a battery in 6 months, and I’m sure some do.

it is possible to destroy a battery in 6 months

Oh, sure. You’d have to try quite hard though. (-:

TBH, if a manufacturer sells a product which it’s possible to destroy within six months due to “misuse,” doesn’t some responsibility lie with the manufacturer to provide the customer with dos and don’ts in order to mitigate this risk? Ie, it’s possible to kill it in six months, but not if you’ve handled it according to manufacturer guidelines?

I remember, once of a time you couldn’t by anything without it coming with a telephone directory of relatively common sense advice. Do not immerse in water; do not set fire to it; do not eat; do not insert into bodily orifices, even if it looks like it might fit; do not pierce or mutilate; keep away from small children, as they’re messy and covered in felt tip ink and chocolate; look twice before crossing the road; no user serviceable parts inside; not for use as a life preserver; etc.