Magic Mary Radial

Has anyone tried them?

Are they even available yet?

I was thinking of starting a similar thread. Wondering if anyone from the real world has tried them yet. Well, the Albert

Definitely interested because I’m a total tyre nerd, also tbf schwalbe’s current carcasses are a wee bit crap ime so it’ll be interesting to see what might come out of that too.

Proper top level pisstaking to call it radial though, since it’s just not true, it’s not a radial at all- just a slightly different bias ply. Their PR stuff is full of just straight up lies and contradictions, I love the bit that basically goes “What is a radial tyre? It means that the plies run straight across the tyres. These tyres don’t do that.” WTF guys. But that’s just marketing people not being able to help themselves, doesn’t take anything away from the tyres.

Lead times shown here https://r2-bike.com/search/?qs=schwalbe+radial&search=

With only 27.5 in stock I can only guess the first batches of 29ers have sold out.

Bump.

Couple of UK shops are now listing them.

Seems to be called Trail Pro.

These or Wild Enduro Front do you reckon? Pinkbike review of WEF says their edge knobs are much easier to find due in part to the squarer profile.

Some distributors have them…

A handful of shops have them in already…

We don’t have any more @ Schwalbe HQ until the next drop (first drop was all pre-ordered) so sadly I have to wait in line until there is any free stock to get my own… Planning to run an Albert Super Gravity Soft Radial rear and a Mary Super Gravity Ultra Soft Radial front and without inserts, though will see what is spare and take what I’m given I guess!

also tbf schwalbe’s current carcasses are a wee bit crap ime so it’ll be interesting to see what might come out of that too.

Would you care to elaborate…?

Some context as to your criticism might help, especially as it’s not like significantly better riders than either of us win on these tyres win World Cup level events week in and week out…

Nope sorry that’s a variant.

Gravity Pro 27.5 Soft 1255g

Trail Pro 29 Ultra Soft 1220g

Gravity Pro 29 Ultra Soft 1340g

mboy
Free Member

Some context as to your criticism might help, especially as it’s not like significantly better riders than either of us win on these tyres win World Cup level events week in and week out…

We’ve talked about this before… are you on the clock just now? 🙂

“Super” switchover was imo botched. Not necessarily as individual tyres but as a range. Superground is pretty weak, for some tyres and some people it’ll be an excellent option just like old snakeskin was, but what on earth is a superground magic mary even for? Enduro-country?

Supertrail of course is “intense all-mountain and trail rides to enduro use” which sounded good to me. And it’s a reasonably tough trailbike sidewall but with a weaker middle, and everything’s only as tough as its weakest spot. I don’t know if it’s 100% true but Schwalbe’s own fluff said that the Superground and Supertrail have the same construction in the centre and the Supertrail just adds sidewall protection, tbh that seems plausible based on my riding experience and is completely stupid. Like using a heavy chain on a weak fencepost.

And it’s not even especially light. For contect it’s the only 1100g+ carcass I’ve ever had repeated front punctures with. I’m a light person and a reasonably tidy rider, and not super fast- I usually use an exo on the front, I can almost but not quite get away with it on the back. I can use conti’s trail carcass on the back. These are both tyres that are equivalent to or lighter than supertrail in general as well as tougher. I mean, they’re still not tough, they’re just tougher.

OK so I’ll go Supergravity? And SG is tough but it’s also very heavy. Now the old supergravity was excellent for me, and well balanced, one of the best carcasses I’ve used (though weight still varied wildly). I wore out at least 2, probably 3 old SG Rockrazors and I don’t think I ever had a flat, and they were actually quite light. A great tyre, I’ve stockpiled those 😉

The new SG may well be more protective, it’s noticably slower but is way heavier. I mean ffs a 29 x 2.4 big betty or mary’s real world weight is over 1400g. That’s a downhill tyre, simple as that.. And that’s literally the lightest schwalbe carcass I can do my normal everyday riding on. A doubledown dhr2 weighs 150g less, and that’s the tyre I keep in the shed and fit for france or fort william or a week of uplifts. FFS a DH dhr2 or shorty is under 1300g (all measured weights from R2 btw, obviously everyone’s claimed weights are bollocks)

Basically they forgot to do this sort of tyre, or just couldn’t do it. They did an xc tyre, a trail tyre, and 2 dh tyres. Now sure as you say there are people that this works for, having a super tough tyre for your one world cup run makes sense and maybe a 1400g dh tyre makes sense for an enduro pro, especially in these days of inserts. But that makes literally no difference to us. Meanwhile with Schwalbe I, a 10 stone, competent but not aggressive rider, need a tyre that’s heavier than any tyre Maxxis even make in that size so that I can ride glentress without flatting regularly.

So even if you think each of these tyres is individually good, and obviously I don’t, that’s a bad range. There’s a huge gap between ST and SG, because ST is too weak and SG is too heavy and it’s a really key gap that competitors pretty much all have a tyre in and Maxxis literally have 3. And it bugs me that it’s a gap they’ve filled before and decided not to any more.

So anyway the Trail Pro just might fill that gap up a bit, if it delivers on promise, which is why I’m keen to try it.

We’ve talked about this before… are you on the clock just now? 🙂

Always on the clock… You know that! 😉

I know we have talked before, I just find it unfair to criticise something and provide no context for others, that’s my point… I hate the music of Coldplay… If I left it there, it doesn’t provide any context as to my criticism of them… So specifically, whilst I find their music quite boring and almost “paint by numbers” in its formulaic approach, it’s Chris Martin’s voice that goes through me… His tone (or lack of), the nasality of it, the fact he seems to have made an incredibly successful career out of having zero talent that I can find etc… Now I’m putting some context as to why, personally, I can’t stand their music… The fact that he dresses like a total wannabe hipster half his own age and is so high on his own self importance, just makes it worse!

Anyway… Back on topic…

I do think your issue with the Super Trail casings is quite an isolated one… It’s not something I have seen or heard of except for a handful of very isolated issues, and/or people using them in situations far beyond their remit. For context, I am a LOT heavier than you (95kg currently, so a good 30kg heavier I suspect) and also riding a full fat eBike right now… I put in a request for Super Gravity versions of the Tacky Chan in soft and a 2.6″ Mary to go on it. They were of course, out of stock in our warehouse, with delivery dates for free stock (as in not already pre ordered by distributors) months away… So I had two choices… Go out and buy my own tyres at or near rrp from a shop, or go with Super Trail versions that I could get for free from work…

I think you know where this is going…

I’m not the smoothest of riders either for context, but so far, no problems at all running a lighter casing than I would expect to be able to get away with at my weight, riding style and on an eBike too… Tend to run the pressures about 25/26 rear and 21/22 front and all is good with the world… I expected to have killed at least the rear Super Trail carcass by now, but nothing of the sort!

In speaking to many other good riders I know who ride Schwalbe out of choice, I know a lot of guys who at least run a Super Trail on the front now, and a handful who have switched front and rear… No issues…

For context, I have owned a 1.9TDi VW Passat that had its engine seize at only just over 120k miles… The “most reliable” engine in the world according to everyone on the internet (I’ve owned several more of the same engine since, and they do go on for a long time in general), and not only that but one with a full main dealer service history too… When I explained what had happened on t’internet there was of course dozens of people literally up in arms that I’d question the reliability of their god-like engine of choice, and that I must have done something on purpose to make it seize whilst doing 75mph on the M4 in the fast lane at 11 o clock at night… But sure enough, something happened in the engine and it dropped a valve, and caused said piston to valve interface and it was only my quick reactions dipping the clutch that stopped my tyres from locking up more than momentarily and causing a big accident!

Whilst I didn’t rush out to buy another one, I did accept that my experience was incredibly rare and not at all indicative of the product from the many hundreds of millions of miles other users have had with it without their engines seizing…

And whilst I still despise Coldplay, I will begrudgingly accept that there are people out there who will pay good money to see them play live, and that whilst I might not understand how they derive enjoyment from said experience, that they do and I should not judge them (too much!) for doing so… 😉

If you wanna sell (or swap) a SG 29er Rock Razor let me know… probably my favourite rear tyre ever for my local trails and trail centres in the summer… But again, you and I are exceptions to the rule here as more and more people want all of the grip all of the time, and fast rolling harder use tyres are incredibly unpopular when it comes to sales figures, hence it was canned… Yet we had significant demand for a Super Ground Magic Mary, hence it was introduced into the range!

New Schwalbe Albert MTB Tire on test – New Benchmark Casing?

However, the new casing’s increased deformation is expected to result in slightly higher rolling resistance. According to Schwalbe, the Albert with radial casing should offer the same rolling resistance as a Magic Mary in the old casing, which is mainly due to the tread pattern.

Interesting

So just how slow will a MM be?!

Perhaps that’s at the same tyre pressure. And they did say you should be able to run these higher to get the same deformation/grip while gaining bottom out rim impact protection.

Perhaps that’s at the same tyre pressure. And they did say you should be able to run these higher to get the same deformation/grip while gaining bottom out rim impact protection.

Nail hit firmly on the head there…

Run it at the same pressure you would have run a non radial tyre at, it will be slower… But have more grip… Run the pressures higher (roughly 30-40%) and you’ll experience similar grip and rolling resistance to the old tyre at the lower pressure, but increased sidewall support and all the benefits that go with that too…

mboy
Free Member

I do think your issue with the Super Trail casings is quite an isolated one…

Happened the same with both the tyres I had and also the only other person I know who tried them flatted the first ride out we did, then ripped it a few weeks later. Local stockist stopped selling them completely which says a lot, they still sell superground for xc people and supergravity for everyone else. So nah definitely not isolated. And sure we have quite <hard> trails here but they’re not generally puncturey. Just the fact that I can jsut about get away with an exo which is frankly a dated and pretty flimsy carcass says a lot to me.

Maybe you can confirm though if the schwalbe info is correct and if the ST is still just the same construction in the middle as the superground? I know they’ve evolved some of these designs over time, maybe newer models are improved?

TBH I’d assumed the superground magic mary was entirely for OEM purposes so brands can lighten their enduro bikes! It’s just such a weird thing to even exist.

I’ve not tried Schwalbe tyres for a long time. I’m normally riding an Exo minion dhf up front and an Exo+ minion dhf 2 out back.

The thing that’s kept me from trying Schwalbe the last couple of tyre swaps is not feeling confident about picking the right casing that offers the same balance if weight and resilience I run now. I’m not sure if it’s me not understanding or the manufacturer explaining it very well but I’ve normally just given up and stuck with what I know.

It’s an upcoming trip to Tremp/Ainsa that recommended double down tyres that has got me pondering again.

As a counterpoint to Northwind’s experience, I spent a week riding Morzine this summer with a 2.6 Ultra soft Super Trail Mary up front and a DH Betty on the rear – no issues at all.

Would love to try a radial but I stocked up on cheap tyres in the spring and have enough for a few years. They can wait.

Been doing a bit of reading on these Radial tyres, they’re certainly of interest to me/us. I hoping to find a pair over winter and give them a demo day or two at Dyfi, well, the boy will demo them, i’ll be sitting interpreting what he says in terms of riding and grip as well as punctures (or lack of them hopefully). More grip and higher pressures are certainly an interesting concept.

We’re 100% a Conti fanboi currently on his DH bike, but he runs MMs on the Enduro/day-to-day bike.

I have a radial Mary on the front and it’s a great tyre. Grippy AF but also draggy too. It’s a fair trade off I think, seems like I got more performance upsides than downs, but don’t buy it it you don’t have gravity on your side. It’s a slog on the flatter stuff.

One thing no one has mentioned that I have seen is that the tread is wider spaced on the new one. So there’s less groups of nobbles which means better mud clearance but slightly worse dry performance I guess (dry hasn’t been a feature of my riding this far)

Are you running different pressures @benpinnick compared to previous tyre combos ?

Yeah, gone from low 20s to high 20s.

I got a Super Trail Hans Dampf for £17 off Merlin because I needed a rear tyre for my mullet bike in a hurry.

I’m not gonna write an essay on it, but, I haven’t got round to fitting an insert and I’ve been really impressed with how durable it’s been. Including on some very rocky trails in the Lakes and Hebden. Better ride feel than the SG casing too.

The tyre is still a Hans Dampf unfortunately, so it’s started regularly trying to kill me now the trails are wet again.

The thing that’s kept me from trying Schwalbe the last couple of tyre swaps is not feeling confident about picking the right casing that offers the same balance if weight and resilience I run now. I’m not sure if it’s me not understanding or the manufacturer explaining it very well but I’ve normally just given up and stuck with what I know.

+1

When I get a tyre I like I stick with it, until it’s discontinued/unavailable.

After a few sticky Magic Mary’s on the front (and various rears) it was suggested by one of my LBS’s (who I trust knows me & my riding) I went onto the original E13’s.  Went through a few pairs and then when they were all gone he recommended Michelin Wild Enduro’s (Magi-X/Gum-X combo).

They’re now getting hard to find in the original spec so when I needed a new pair of tyres for my eeb I put on the Butchers that had come with it, punctured the rear every ride – now replaced with Michelin’s again.

I predominantly ride in the Tweed Valley, so rough conditions for both my normal bike & eeb – also run sub 20psi and no inserts for a 75kg old man.

A pal though has just got the new Schwalbe’s and has been raving about them – be interesting to see what others say too.

Oh, and when radial tyres came into motorbikes back in the early 80’s they were a game-changer; pretty much the same grip but twice the longevity of the old cross-plies for the same outlay.

I’ve got one, had it about two weeks now.

It’s a Magic Mary Trail Pro-TLR 29 x2.5 Ultra Soft – Radial, catchy name.

It’s certainly a lot better than the worn tyre that it replaced. It’s got pretty stunning grip on roots, loose and mud. Even on an Ebike you can feel it drags a bit. Probably the best tyre I’ve ever used, but it’s probably best suited to ebikes and gravity bikes. The firmer compound might be better suited to normal bikes.

Trail Pro 29 Ultra Soft 1220g

70g more than the 1150g Super Trail, so fair enough swap out a light insert for a slight net weight saving.

If you’re on a trail casing from another brand (e.g. 1050g 29er) with a light insert (90g), no radial offering for you (yet) unless you want to gain another 80g? And not much room to fit one in the range given this is “trail pro”?

I see them coming more and more into stock but still bloody expensive… R2 don’t have the trail version in yet but once they do might e worth a group buy, they’re 54 euro (plus postage and brexit tax) but it’ll still work out cheaper, it’s just that the minimum order size means you’ve got to order at least 3…

Could be interested in a group buy.

Are all Schwalbe tyres going to be radial, or will you still be able to buy the non radial versions?

I’ve always used Magic Marys on both the downhill bike and also now on the trail bike now that they do the ultra soft compound in super trail. I much prefer them to anything Maxxis offer, so just curious if I’m still going to be able to get what I like or whether I’m going to have radial as the only option.

I’m in the US looking for a Magic Mary Trail Pro Ultra Soft 29 if anyone has any leads.

A few sites expect re-stock Nov 1, I’m hoping to find one sooner if possible.

Thanks.

Are all Schwalbe tyres going to be radial, or will you still be able to buy the non radial versions?

I suspect unless they’re really lightweight tyres that might have a reason to remain crossply, cheap tyres they can’t be bothered to update, or road tyres which might go full radial (The new tyres aren’t actually ‘radial’) then most will migrate to radial. The ability to run higher pressures without losing grip/comfort* seems like a ono brainer for a more consistent ride in corners.

* comfort is obviously compromised at times – but its not all the time, just those times where a softer tyre would have provided more overall cushioning.

I like mine.

@Northwind – Im unaware of any non-radial related casing changes from Super Trail to Trail Pro, not that that means they’re not there, but I don’t know of anything. That said, for me Trail has always been fine. I usually destroy tyres at the rim bead, and Schwalbe are really good for not doing that.

bgreenback
Free Member

Are all Schwalbe tyres going to be radial, or will you still be able to buy the non radial versions?

I reckon it’ll only ever be their more full-on tyres, anything that slows a tyre down is a hard sell for most people but at least everyone understands “ultrasoft” or “moar knobbly”.

Thanks Ben. Yeah I have zero issues with the sidewalls on any of the schwalbes I’ve used too, not since the old days anyway.

Aaaagh. I am just so conflicted, I want to try these AND the highroller III DD AND I really want that enduro/ultrasoft argotal that’s coming Any Time Now but I can’t afford ’em all to try! Especially with the HRIII at £80. Tredz has the trail pro MM at £69 now, that’s tempting. It’s a good thing, to have such awesome seeming choice but it’s still frustrating, especially as we’re just tipping into “soft argotal isn’t quite cutting it” season.

On that note, all credit to Schwalbe for giving it a good clear name to google! And on the same note, **** you Maxxis 🙂

**** it, ordered a trail pro mary in ultrasoft to try. Not waiting for the argotal and the HRIII is expensive! Dead curious to see how it works

“Aaaagh. I am just so conflicted, I want to try these AND the highroller III DD AND I really want that enduro/ultrasoft argotal that’s coming Any Time Now but I can’t afford ’em all to try!”

Try the Hillbilly T9! It’s a really good tyre in the same ilk as the MM, Argotal and HR3 and bizarrely good value compared to all of them.

Didn’t really like the T9 tbh. Thought they bottled it on rubber compound, tbh, it’s like they tried to make a tyre that can go on either end and just made a middle instead, not for the first time. Maxxgrip Shorty is just plain better when it’s really orrible. And whatever sorcerty it is conti put in their soft rubber makes the argotal work better all the rest of the time. TBH I’ve felt the same about the Mary, but I’m dead curious about this casing, I’m a low pressure person and I hate pinginess so I reckon they might work well for me.

I mean, fair enough, Specialized are like 70% as expensive. But I don’t begrudge that £30 or whatever on a 2 grand bike, especially for this sort of pointiest end of riding where being just a little bit better keeps your blood on the inside 🙂

So by way of an update, I have the Radial MM Ultra front and Radial Albert Soft rear. Patternwise there’s not too much to report – I mean the Mary tread pattern is well known – this 2.5 version spreads the tread a bit wider, meaning it clears better but its not that different, and the Albert is what you would think it would be – a stable, relatively fast rolling tyre in the mold of the Kryptotal F that its very close to.

Its the casing thats different. The ride quality is unlike anything I have ridden before. It takes a while to bed in fully but when it does its like a huge upgrade for your suspension – its really responsive to the terrain, masking small lumps and bumps like no other tyre I have ridden. Its super stable, can be pushed hard into the corners but also grips like you let 10 psi out. The comfort levels and grip are way better than anything else I have ridden, and the damping effect is really, really noticeable.

Go buy some. That is all.

Go buy some. That is all

And they’re not too bad for rolling resistance? Any worse than the none radial version of the same tyres?

Might have to get a set when I’ve worn my continentals out

And they’re not too bad for rolling resistance?

I don’t think so. I say think as its hard to say whether they’re better or worse (once pressure is adjusted). I do know they’re not _bad_ rolling.

Dammit, @benpinnick – I just got my Tacky Chans after your last glowing review – now I need these too? 🙂