[Closed] Lower drink driving limit

I assume no one actually disagrees with this idea?

My dad and his missus do - they were moaning about it all weekend.

Apparently "there is no evidence that it makes any difference" and "they are just trying to catch people out"

[i]*sigh*[/i]

(Side note: they are avid Daily Mail readers)

I assume no one actually disagrees with this idea?

Never assume anything. I'm a miles better driver after a few Stella's 😀

In reality it'll make no difference at all. People who drink drive (and there are a few of the old blokes in our local who do) will just ignore it and carry on regardless. Lets be honest. With all the police now replaced by speed cameras, they'd have to be pretty unlucky to actually get caught. More headline grabbing tokenism, I'm afraid. It'd do more good if the limits we already had were actually enforced. Along with being on your phone while driving etc etc etc.....

My dad and his missus do - they were moaning about it all weekend.

They could always move to England. We still welcome slightly more pissed people on our roads.

Nope quite happy with it.

Would happily see it dropped completely.

They could always move to England.

I don't think things are quite [i]that[/i] bad yet. 😉

Should be 0

It'll make no difference whatso ever, other than perhaps catch a few people out the next morning as mentioned......

Idiots who drink and drive aren't going to stop because the limit has changed, they are the ones driving after 10 pints and a tripple shot anyway.

Like speed limits, the drink drive alcohol concentration limit is just an arbitrary number, and has little or no reflection on the specific situation in any case.

I don't drive, so I take it this still doesn't affect us pissed cyclists? 😆

Seriously though, I don't really understand why there is a limit on driving, it should be either or. Have the limit set to the minimum possible.

I guess there will be more drink/drive test zones cropping up.

it IS effectively zero with this legislation. Speaking with a GP mate, the reason they have kept it minimal is to accomodate for small amounts of alcohol which may be in the system, from food, medicines etc.

The mesage that a single glass of wine or beer may well put a driver over the limit is IMO just the right message to send, and to enforce.

I guess there will be more drink/drive test zones cropping up.

I have never ever seen one of these. Has anyone else? With the recent further cuts in police numbers, I'm not expecting to any time soon either. Its complete nonsense this. You can make the limit nothing, or you could make it ten pints, and 5 whisky chasers. If its not being enforced, exactly what is the point?

[quote=iainc ]it IS effectively zero with this legislation. Speaking with a GP mate, the reason they have kept it minimal is to accomodate for small amounts of alcohol which may be in the system, from food, medicines etc. That was my understanding too.

Isn't it now routine to be tested after an accident? That must catch out more drivers than any random testing.

Is everyone else getting the ad for "drinkdrivingsolicitor.co.uk" on this thread?!

Should be 0

It can't practically be zero.

"You had a beer three days ago" or "You use mouthwash" are not very good reasons to fine someone! 😆

Where do we stand on people driving when tired/upset/emotional etc? Just wondering?? Because there have been times when i have been so preoccupied that i have arrived at a destination with no clue how i got there - but this is perfectly legal

binners - Member
I guess there will be more drink/drive test zones cropping up.
I have never ever seen one of these. Has anyone else? With the recent further cuts in police numbers, I'm not expecting to any time soon either. Its complete nonsense this. You can make the limit nothing, or you could make it ten pints, and 5 whisky chasers. If its not being enforced, exactly what is the point?

I guess there will be more drink/drive test zones cropping up.

I have never ever seen one of these. Has anyone else?

Yes - the police near my dad set one up between the pub and the main road on the night of a local estate's Christmas party. The locals seemed to think this was rather unsporting...

I have mates who say they can have one or two and still be under the limit. These are the people this is targeting.

I reckon saying you can have *no* alcohol and drive is the best but with a fuzziness to allow for mouthwash or a small amount of cough medicine etc.

I have never ever seen one of these. Has anyone else?

Yeah I have but it was a few years ago around the festive period, so probably the annual crack down anyway.
It was just flagging down all cars along a stretch of road and checking the drivers. Probably lasted for about 2 hours then moved to another location.

out of interest how may of the above posters:
- use a hands free phone
- use a phone
- coffee/eat etc
whilst driving

#whataboutery

I figure I'll have one pint early evening and then drive later and be OK, not sure if that would put me over the limit if it changed to 50mg/100ml.

Where do we stand on people driving when tired/upset/emotional etc? Just wondering?? Because there have been times when i have been so preoccupied that i have arrived at a destination with no clue how i got there - but this is perfectly legal

If you can find a practical way to measure tiredness, upset or emotion by the roadside and fix a metric that drivers must not exceed (like speed and blood alcohol) because beyond that there's serious risk, then I reckon we should start rewriting the law.

[quote=mudshark ]I figure I'll have one pint early evening and then drive later and be OK, not sure if that would put me over the limit if it changed to 50mg/100ml.
Turn it back to you: would you continue to do so with a 50mg/100ml limit?

I have never ever seen one of these. Has anyone else? With the recent further cuts in police numbers, I'm not expecting to any time soon either. Its complete nonsense this. You can make the limit nothing, or you could make it ten pints, and 5 whisky chasers. If its not being enforced, exactly what is the point?

Good if it's enforced (all year round) they have random breath testing here in Oz, police set up a road block and stop everyone. Seems to work well until it gets posted on social media.

But then again how much truly awful driving do people get away with, maybe some of them would be better if they were pissed.

scotroutes - Member
mudshark » I figure I'll have one pint early evening and then drive later and be OK, not sure if that would put me over the limit if it changed to 50mg/100ml.
Turn it back to you: would you continue to do so with a 50mg/100ml limit?

1 pint of 4% lager should still see you under the limit, no?

question: of the thousands of people killed or maimed on our roads every year, how many were caused by people 'just' over the new limit?

in other words, will it make any difference?

1 pint of 4% lager should still see you under the limit, no?

i wouldn't risk it...

[quote=ahwiles ]question: of the thousands of people killed or maimed on our roads every year, how many were caused by people 'just' over the new limit?
How many does it have to be before this is worthwhile?

I guess there will be more drink/drive test zones cropping up.

I have never ever seen one of these. Has anyone else? With the recent further cuts in police numbers, I'm not expecting to any time soon either. Its complete nonsense this. You can make the limit nothing, or you could make it ten pints, and 5 whisky chasers. If its not being enforced, exactly what is the point?

Yep, quite often actually in Bath, however now I live in Somerset proper, I believe it's compulsory to drive while pissed, and I have seen 1 police car in 11 months in our village!

Turn it back to you: would you continue to do so with a 50mg/100ml limit?

I'd what I do about everything in life - ask on here and do what was recommended....

scotroutes - Member

How many does it have to be before this is worthwhile?

that's a [u]good[/u] question, to which the answer is of course: i don't know.

was just curious really.

i wonder if we'd be so happy to make black-boxes compulsory...

1 pint of 4% lager should still see you under the limit, no?

Average male has 5l of blood

50mg/100ml is 2.5g in 5l, 1 unit is 10g.

So actualy you can 'safely' have 1/8th of a pint, anything else is countig on things like holdup in your stonach, your liver processing it, absorbtion into muscles/fat.

How many does it have to be before this is worthwhile?

So actualy you can 'safely' have 1/8th of a pint

Shirley, that would be by injecting it into a vein? Most of us neck the stuff, and only part of it makes it into the blood, and not instantly.

question: of the thousands of people killed or maimed on our roads every year, how many were caused by people 'just' over the new limit?

Kinda difficult to say since they were previously under the drink drive limit so not counted as drink drive incidents.

Overall the drink-drive casualties are still quite high, but WAAAAAY better than they used to be despite the massive increase in the number of cars:

[code]1979: Killed 1640 Serious 8300 Slight 21490
2013: Killed  230 Serious 1200 Slight 8510[/code]

(Source: RAS51001 "Estimated number of reported drink drive accidents and casualties in Great Britain" in [url= https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-annual-report-2013 ]RRCGB 2013[/url])

What if they went the opposite way for the whole of the festive period, and allowed a Mad Max style free-for-all? As a sort of christmas gift to the nation. We could all buy scrappers, fit big spikes to the wheels, dress like australians, get bladdered then let rip at each other. That'd be a right laugh

*goes to start online petition*

1 pint of 4% lager should still see you under the limit, no?
Average male has 5l of blood

50mg/100ml is 2.5g in 5l, 1 unit is 10g.

So actualy you can 'safely' have 1/8th of a pint, anything else is countig on things like holdup in your stonach, your liver processing it, absorbtion into muscles/fat.

The latter factors you mention will have a large effect though, I'd guess a pint will be fine.

sounds like you are being a wee bit draconian in your measuring? 😆

What if they went the opposite way for the whole of the festive period, and allowed a Mad Max style free-for-all? As a sort of christmas gift to the nation. We could all buy scrappers, fit big spikes to the wheels, dress like australians, get bladdered then let rip at each other. That'd be a right laugh

The winner has to shag Tina Turner, right? Live on TV or something?

question: of the thousands of people killed or maimed on our roads every year, how many were caused by people 'just' over the new limit?

We could all buy scrappers, fit big spikes to the wheels, dress like australians, get bladdered then let rip at each other.

Sounds like some of those funny places up north you hear about.

might be able to "catch out" more of the morning after the night before crowd too.

50mg in line with most of EU makes sense. And makes 1 pint clearly in the "could put you over the limit" category, rather than "one ought to be safe if you're careful and don't get caught"

had a feeling scandinavia was 20mg? half a shandy (which is about all anyone could afford at their prices anyway) could trigger the limit.

[img] [/img]

50mg in line with most of EU makes sense.

Why exactly? How many of us drink a couple of pints before getting on a ferry or the shuttle then have to hang about at the port to de-gas? When you get to any destination across the channel both portion size and strength of brew are different too.

Yay, we're the drink drive capital of Europe.

Yay, we're the drink drive capital of Europe.

Best at handling cars after a few beers?

Yay, we're the drink drive capital of Europe.

Not strictly correct. If you get caught here then you'll probably get banned with major consequences.

In France, even with a lower limit, if you get caught you'll get 'let off' with a fine and not allowed to drive until you're 'sober' again.

the legal drink drive capital of Europe?

and again, how is it going to be enforced, like speeding out of sight of cameras, red light jumping, making phone calls, texting, passing on blind bends and tailgating.

#whataboutery

It's practice to be tested after being involved in any accident.

learned a new word scotroutes?

Making new laws is great but not providing the tools to enforce them is a waste of time. It's a nice headline but what effect will it have. It's an honest question.

Edit as the second bit didn't come up
Testing after the event doesn't stop the event.

mikewsmith - Member
and again, how is it going to be enforced, like speeding out of sight of cameras, red light jumping, making phone calls, texting, passing on blind bends and tailgating.

You seem to be under some illusion that laws can be enforced universally?

What are you after, checkpoints on every street? 😆

Testing after the event doesn't stop the event.

By the same argument our laws against murder, rape, assault, robbery etc don't work because they only punish people after a crime has already been committed.

Bring on the pre-cogs.

You seem to be under some illusion that laws can be enforced universally?

What are you after, checkpoints on every street?

Sounds expensive.

mikewsmith - Member
You seem to be under some illusion that laws can be enforced universally?
What are you after, checkpoints on every street?

Nope how about an increase in police levels, more traffic officers, a removal of the no stop without reason to allow random testing, at least a basic effort to enforce the current traffic laws. They brought in laws against using phones when there was a law that would have prosecuted for that. Enforcement is more important than making laws.

Can we change your name to gestapomike? 😆

I think it's pretty clear from the thread how laws are enforced, they are generally enforced by consensus that they are correct.

You can't legislate against the liberty of the many just to catch a few, that's bloody ridiculous.

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/nov/09/the-rise-of-women-drink-drivers ]Will also potentially have a higher effect on women[/url]

You can't legislate against the liberty of the many just to catch a few, that's bloody ridiculous.

"The Many" are often proven to be unable to make rational decisions and behave as society expects, so why should they not have their liberties checked.

The point as you missed it is that making laws and grabbing headlines (lower drink drive limits, deport terrorists, ban Zero Hours Contracts, stop tax evasion etc) is nothing more than headline grabbing if you don't enforce it.

It already [i]is[/i] enforced. More than 50,000 convictions every year.

It's a very emotive subject, in an ideal world we'd have a 0 limit, also applying to drugs that can effect the ability to drive, including over the counter cold remedies etc.
In addition to France, some Mediterranean countries only issue fines for DD and have much worse road safety records than the UK do.
The fall in the KSi figures aren't due to the DD laws but many other factors, road design, vehicle safety features such as ABS, seat belts and airbags.

mikewsmith - Member
of the things I suggested the only one that may infringe the "many" is random breath testing. It would probably turn up a lot of the "only had one" crowd that the change in the law wants to stop - is that not what we are after.
"The Many" are often proven to be unable to make rational decisions and behave as society expects, so why should they not have their liberties checked.

The point as you missed it is that making laws and grabbing headlines (lower drink drive limits, deport terrorists, ban Zero Hours Contracts, stop tax evasion etc) is nothing more than headline grabbing if you don't enforce it.

It's not at all, I think you can clearly see from this thread that it will have a tangible effect on how people behave. The vast majority will change they way the think about a few pints then driving.

That's much more than headline grabbing.

I completely disagree with people having their liberty checked, particularly drivers, and especially without reasonable cause. I don't even drive and I'd consider drivers to be one of the most policed sections of society, the levels of police they deal with is already way beyond societal norms.

they levels of police they deal with is already way beyond societal norms.

a removal of the no stop without reason to allow random testing

If what you're asking for is something different, I'm not sure if it makes enough of a difference to be worth doing...

I'd consider drivers to be one of the most policed sections of society, the levels of police they deal with is already way beyond societal norms.

It'll make no difference whatso ever

It will to me. At the moment, I'll have a beer with a lunch and then drive, or one post night ride and drive home. Not any more I won't.

I completely disagree with people having their liberty checked, particularly drivers, and especially without reasonable cause.

Roads are a regulated controlled environment, not a free for all, and driving is not a 'right', it is not a 'given'. People need to pass a test, maintain their vehicles and be compliant, That's what the traffic police are there to do, and to make the whole driving experience safer

I sincerely hope it doesn't get copied down here. Best pint ever that one after the ride - often before driving home.

Looks like that will put paid to our usual after work swifty on a Friday 😥

I was breatalysed straight after 2 pints of Pedigree and passed so always used 2 pints as my limit when I drove.

Edit: Phew, just realised this is just the Peoples Republic of Jockistan

I was breatalysed straight after 2 pints of Pedigree and passed so always used 2 pints as my limit when I drove.

Edit: Phew, just realised this is just the Peoples Republic of Jockistan

I'd be amazed if UKIPland didn't follow suit.

[img] [/img]

Looks like that will put paid to our usual after work swifty on a Friday

The shared office where I work has a "Fridge Club" where everyone gets together at the end of a Friday and has a few beers before they all drive home.

😯

[img] [/img]

The shared office where I work has a "Fridge Club" where everyone gets together at the end of a Friday and has a few beers before they all drive home.

Something that is in use in parts of Australia to get back in a car after a drink conviction.
[img] [/img]

iainc - Member
I completely disagree with people having their liberty checked, particularly drivers, and especially without reasonable cause.
...... eh ?
Roads are a regulated controlled environment, not a free for all, and driving is not a 'right', it is not a 'given'. People need to pass a test, maintain their vehicles and be compliant, That's what the traffic police are there to do, and to make the whole driving experience safer

I just dont think more police will make people safer.

All smacks to me of the snp falling in line with Europe rather than the rUK.

[quote=mikewsmith] changing the number may stop some from chancing it but it won't stop those who don't think it's a problem.So - it'll improve the current situation but not make it perfect? I'm failing to see the down-side.

[quote=hegdehog ]All smacks to me of the snp falling in line with Europe rather than the rUK.
This SNP?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-27383267