Liz! Truss!

Reese Mogg has to be one of the worst for religious hypocrisy

It’s a hotly-contested position in recent government.

nickjb

Reese Mogg has to be one of the worst for religious hypocrisy

Super-centrist disappointed that Truss wasn’t an absolute disaster on her first PMQs.

Just on this boring bit. Truss is obviously extremely boring and a lot of us have been saying for some time that going back to boring would be nice. But. She is boring to listen to. She is not necessarily boring in terms of policy.

— Ian Dunt (@IanDunt) September 7, 2022

I mean if we all give her a few days I’m sure she will come up with something.

There will be plenty to analyse this morning when if predicted she kicks out £130bn of support v Labour’s paltry 29bn package. (Only ‘funded’ by £8bn of windfall tax. Dopes. The other part being funded by fantasy inflation savings.)

Labour were positioned to go big and the Tories are going way bigger.

Precisely …… https://t.co/QBEXTUnHHa

— Richard Murphy (@RichardJMurphy) September 7, 2022

v Labour’s paltry 29bn package

You know that was for an emergency 6 month thing with more to follow that would depend on what the energy market was doing etc.? But why let facts get in the way of a good troll I guess :p

why not just issue an energy bond for 200 billion on Monday and have @bankofengland buy it on Friday @KeirStammer …..?

I like Blanchflower, always worth listening to… but the answer is… likely to lead to GBP falling towards parity with the US dollar and either a huge further jump in inflation or interest rates (or more likely both). You might say that with our self imposed sanctions at a time of crisis we’re heading there anyway so it doesn’t matter… but that’s letting government off the hook with fatalism… they need to not **** this up further…

[ narrator: they did **** this up further ]

You know that was for an emergency 6 month thing with more to follow that would depend on what the energy market was doing etc.?

That’s the problem with the opposition announcing their plans earlier than government. Of course, many people were saying that Labour announced theirs too late as it was. 🤷🏻‍♂️

You know that was for an emergency 6 month thing with more to follow that would depend on what the energy market was doing etc.? But why let facts get in the way of a good troll I guess :p

That doesn’t make a lot of sense. It doesn’t matter what the energy is doing, you either have a price cap or you don’t, that’s the point – it guarantees a maximum price.

Or are suggesting that if there is a very substantial price increase in energy prices in say 6 months time there should no longer be a price cap?

And if the price falls in 6 months time the fact that there is a price cap will make no difference – it’s a “cap” not a fixed price.

So what the market does is irrelevant. A price cap gives domestic consumers and businesses reassurance, guarantees, and the ability to plan.

Labour could have proposed a 18 month energy price cap, they didn’t. And the reason they didn’t according to the Labour Party leader and Shadow Chancellor is because they believe it is unaffordable. Pointing that out that fact isn’t “trolling”.

Looks like the US have just let her get all the Queenie stuff out of the way before a timely shot across the bows

Just a not-so-subtle reminder that if she tears up the Northern Ireland Protocol then she can forget any potential trade deals with the US

White House warns Truss over efforts to ‘undo’ Northern Ireland protocol

Given that she’s essentially just a sock puppet for the ERG and the cabinet is made up almost entirely of their number, I doubt even that will stop her from triggering Article 16 and starting a trade war with the EU

How on earth did we end up with these extremist lunatics at the helm? Where it’s necessary for the US to immediately issue warnings to the new PM about the consequences of her breaking international law, like we’re some mad rogue state. It’s truly tragic where this country now is under the influence of these unhinged nationalist headbangers 😢

Even by the somewhat flexible ‘values’ Lizzie holds I wonder, as she campaigned for remain, she could have imagined that’s where she’d end up, just to satisfy her apparently limitless narcissism and ambition?

Saw my parents last night, both voted leave and have voted Tory pretty much all their lives, in theory they are precisely the kind of people Truss has been desperately trying to appeal to.

I was struck just how unenthused they they were about Truss, like, ‘really, is that all they’ve got!?’

Both would have preferred Sunak as he ‘at least appears to live in the real world’ regarding the economy.

It’s not exactly a representative sample but if that’s the reaction of two pretty true blue voters deep in the Tory Shires, Truss’s new leader ‘bounce’ looks pretty much DOA.

Do they deliberately photograph her to try to make her look like a sex doll from Wilko? I’d have expected better from the Torygraph.

FFS dude! I’ve got enough to be getting on with without cleaning keyboards!

Reese Mogg has to be one of the worst for religious hypocrisy

Dunno, he seems to fit the mould for a good number of religious types. Seen the god-botherers across the pond and their attempts to create the new republic of Gilead?

I get that folk want to try and be positive about this but does anyone find the unbridled enthusiam of some of our furthest left cohort rather bizarre?

Gushing over Truss whilst flinging insults at anyone further right than He Who Shall Not Be Named. Have you actually moved so far left you’re now at the other side of the circle? WTF is going on here?

For context this isn’t hating on the left, it’s questioning those who claim to be left yet seem to have this strange enthusiasm for Tory PM’s.

That doesn’t make a lot of sense. It doesn’t matter what the energy is doing, you either have a price cap or you don’t, that’s the point – it guarantees a maximum price.

Because there’s not just a single option of a blanket price cap? If energy prices keep increasing to ridiculous levels then a blanket cap with the difference funded entirely by the government might not be the best option. But perhaps it might be – seems sensible to me to get something done quickly as people need support now and review it as time goes on.

The main point is Labour never said “our entire solution is we’ll support a 6 month price cap then then you’re on your own” so comparing costs of a 6 month Labour plan with a presumably 18 month Tory plan is comparing apples and oranges

I get that folk want to try and be positive about this but does anyone find the unbridled enthusiam of some of our furthest left cohort rather bizarre?

Gushing over Truss whilst flinging insults at anyone further right than He Who Shall Not Be Named. Have you actually moved so far left you’re now at the other side of the circle? WTF is going on here?

For context this isn’t hating on the left, it’s questioning those who claim to be left yet seem to have this strange enthusiasm for Tory PM’s

Which is why nobody goes near ‘that’ particularly toxic thread other than the usual 5, furiously agreeing with each other. And why the same 5 then infect every other politics thread with stuff that should remain there, thus derailing them until boring everyone into submission

If you go far enough in either direction and you meet in the middle, around the other side.

Nothing has highlighted this more than Brexit and the politics it’s ushered in. Talk to your average Lexiteer (I know a few of them) and close your eyes and you could be listening to Nigel Farage

*sits back and awaits flaming by the usual 5*

For me I believe Truss will be a complete disaster as PM and that will lead to the collapse of the tory vote making the tories unelectable for decades and thus give the labour party time in government to undo the damage that 15 years of tory rule has done

Short term pain for long term gain.

Imo someone like Sunack who appears to be competent would perhaps damage the country less but certainly damage the electoral prospects of the tory party less.

Maybe I’m delusional but thats my thinking

For me I believe Truss will be a complete disaster as PM and that will lead to the collapse of the tory vote making the tories unelectable for decades

People were making that exact statement a few years ago about Boris

If energy prices keep increasing to ridiculous levels then a blanket cap with the difference funded entirely by the government might not be the best option.

What other options could Labour be considering – disconnecting domestic customers who can’t afford their bills and letting businesses go under?

It is reasonable to expect Labour to reveal what options they are considering for a huge crises that is severely affecting millions of people.

I get that folk want to try and be positive about this but does anyone find the unbridled enthusiam of some of our furthest left cohort rather bizarre?

What enthusiasm? Some of us have pointed out that Truss isn’t going to be the idiot ‘sock puppet’ which the liberal democrats on here arrogantly assume and that Starmer will need to up his game as a result. It’s only been a day and pretty much everything I’ve said about Truss has already come true. All stuff which the likes of binners et al dismissed because they refuse to engage their brains and instead indulge in childish insults.

For me I believe Truss will be a complete disaster as PM and that will lead to the collapse of the tory vote making the tories unelectable for decades and thus give the labour party time in government to undo the damage that 15 years of tory rule has done

Tories unelectable for decades?

Maybe I’m delusional but thats my thinking

Definitely delusional. I can’t even see the tories losing the next election, the red wall seats could go back to Labour but tories will still scrape through.

Not how I think a Christian should be acting towards others no.

It all tends to fail on 2 tenets of the faith:

Love thy neighbour as thyself

Judge not lest ye be judged

They manage to love the lord their god without a problem but forget the earthly component. (King James wording used because I like it).

Not according to the polls. Tories on course to loose hugely

Unless like Earnie you only look at the polls where labour does badly.

The current polls are showing a huge labour majority

Correct me if I’m wrong, but no policies, never mind the detail of those policies, have actually been announced yet, have they?

So what you’re commenting on is pure speculation, a lot of which will no doubt have been kite-flying and spin

Also Truss as pm increases the number of folk who are in favour of scots independence

For me I believe Truss will be a complete disaster as PM and that will lead to the collapse of the tory vote making the tories unelectable for decades

People were making that exact statement a few years ago about Boris

He was a disaster as PM, and his time as PM haslead to a collapse in Tory support, according to the polling and by-elections.

I agree that they can still win more elections though, including the next one. Demographic spread in the UK still stacks the FPTP odds in their favour, and that’ll be made worse by boundary changes, plus they don’t have any opposition party leaders that can hold the interest of voters to deal with. South of the border anyway.

FRACKING

What’s the point? For anyone outside the “Institute of Economic Affairs” and fossil fuel industry inner circle that is.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/kwasi-kwarteng-said-fracking-bad-for-communities-and-countryside_uk_6319827be4b082746bdbdc6d

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/09/07/truss-fracking-ambitions-fuel-opposition/

https://inews.co.uk/news/fracking-why-controversial-uk-ban-tory-manifesto-liz-truss-plan-explained-1839911

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/sep/08/lifting-fracking-ban-not-miracle-solution-minister-admits

For context this isn’t hating on the left, it’s questioning those who claim to be left yet seem to have this strange enthusiasm for Tory PM’s.

Don’t confuse enthusiasm with resignation. We can’t change the outcome, can’t even influence it right now, but maybe there is a glimmer of hope that she won’t be quite as disasterous as we have come to believe?

Maybe? The bar is quite low though…

I think that is probably the lie we keep telling ourselves as the alternative is abject horror from staring into the abyss that is another two years (maybe more) of tory government (and their continous shift further right)

FRACKING

What’s the point?

It’s just more right wing ideology which, post-Brexit, is now some weirdly empowered cult, with the stereotypical over-zealous convert now leading it

Everyone with any knowledge of the global energy markets knows it’ll make no difference at all, but it’s just another article of faith for the Uber-free-marketeers currently in charge

Correct me if I’m wrong, but no policies

Apart from a 130bn bailout of the energy industry to cap energy bills. Seems like a pretty big policy to me, and one which you lot said she wouldn’t do because she was a rightwing ideologue. 🤷‍♂️

It isn’t policy yet. It’s speculation.

What other options could Labour be considering – disconnecting domestic customers who can’t afford their bills and letting businesses go under?

Yes, that’s exactly it 🙄

The alternatives have been discussed in the relevant thread, market reform would be another option.

Some of us have pointed out that Truss isn’t going to be the idiot ‘sock puppet’ which the liberal democrats on here arrogantly assume

Oh that’s a new one, is that the new code word for centrists?

And that’s a rather bold assumption, she’s been a sock puppet for years albeit a wind sock, what makes you think she’s going to just all of a sudden grow a spine and adopt principles?

As has been pointed out, she hasn’t just appeared from nowhere, peoples scepticism is based on a long and well documented track record.

It isn’t policy yet. It’s speculation.

Oh give over. It’s been trailed so heavily in the media for the past 48 hours that it’s nailed on it’s going to happen. Come back in a few hours and then tell me I’m wrong.

what makes you think she’s going to just all of a sudden grow a spine and adopt principles?

Where have I said that? I’ve been saying for some time that she’s not the ideologue she pretends to be and that the lib dems on here say she is. The fact that she’s about to spend more than four times as much as labour were proposing on the energy crisis proves that. I have no doubt she’s ideologically committed to tax cuts, that much is obvious. As with Johnson though where she departs from the rightwing script is how she will fund them. So while labour pursue the deadend obsession about where the money is coming from, she’ll get on with policies which have a direct impact on the finances of millions, and no doubt win millions of votes in the process.

Liz Truss will be seen as doing well, not because she’s any good, but because the expectations are so low.

Beware

People were making that exact statement a few years ago about Boris

You know how in Star Wars Anakin is meant to be the saviour and bring balance to the Force, then he doesn’t, then he finally does but not in the way you expect? This is like that.

The fact that she’s about to spend more than four times as much as labour were proposing on the energy crisis proves that.

She’s all about funnelling money upwards, not least to the fossil fuel companies she has worked for and lobbied for. She could just tax a lump of it back. It’s not like the budgets for schools, hospitals etc are looking healthy as their costs are increasing every day their heads/managers sit down to look at the books. Never mind most of us having a real incomes cut by another 10% this year. Got to protect those big company profits though…

And a longer plan costing more than a shorter plan is just the same old Conservative trick. Like when public sector workers ask for a 4% pay increase… and then get a 5% increase (ooo… it’s more) spread over 5 years (oh, it’s bugger all).

That it’ll cost more to reduce bills over a period that’s many times longer is just maths. Making sure all that money isn’t just pissed away as profits for the companies/sector the PM works for is key here.

Don’t confuse enthusiasm with resignation. We can’t change the outcome, can’t even influence it right now, but maybe there is a glimmer of hope that she won’t be quite as disasterous as we have come to believe?

Definitely this, most of us have to live in this country and would prefer it not to go completely down the pan. I’ll clutch any straw on offer at the moment.

She’s all about funnelling money upwards, not least to the fossil fuel companies she has worked for

Of course she is, she’s a tory! The problem for labour is that people don’t care where the money comes from or where it goes, all they care about is their bills not going up and the amount of tax going out of their pay packets going down. The danger for Starmer and labour with all this ‘where is the money coming from’ stuff is that the voting public will interpret that as not wanting to do anything about bills and ultimately not being on their side.

For anyone outside the “Institute of Economic Affairs” and fossil fuel industry inner circle that is.

Who else matters?
In some ways considering they have squandered the North Sea supplies it would make certain sense to have some fracking as part of a strategic reserve eg not sold on the open market but used purely domestically.

don’t care where the money comes from or where it goes

Yes, they do. See VIP lanes used by the opaque shell companies of Tory donors to take our money for old rope, while denying people on Universal Credit an uplift to deal with the fallout from the pandemic.

People DO care where the money goes. If they don’t, then sit back and enjoy the Tories taking the country for a ride for decades.

And just saying “but they’re Tories, don’t mention it, let them get away with it” is just enabling them, pure and simple.

She is in there to protect the oil and gas extraction industry. She is their person. If you give even the smallest shits about climate change you should be up in arms, not shrugging as she does their bidding.