Liz! Truss!

I was going to start a new thread but seemed pointless..

How many of you have voted for other parties rather than your default option?

• I’ll be open and say I’ve voted Conservative for most of my life.

• I mainly vote Lib Dem in local elections as they can make a difference locally.

• I voted for Blair during his height as I thought he was doing a good job – then it all came crashing down! 🙂

• I even voted for Corbyn in the 2017 election as I felt it was worth trying a complete change of tack at the time.

…as it stands now I really don’t know who I’d vote for. Not enamoured with any party.

How many of you have voted for other parties rather than your default option?

The last time I voted in a general election, my constituency was a very tight two-horse race between Labour and Conservative. Any other option would have been a wasted vote. I didn’t vote for a party, I voted against one. I’d have held my nose and voted UKIP if it was the best chance of taking a seat from the Tories.

I have considered voting Plaid Cymru, but it’s not an option for me in my constituency as it’s either Tory or Labour. I can only see myself voting for left-wing parties because that aligns with my fundamental beliefs and Tories are the opposite to that. I would possibly vote Tory if I thought it was in the best interests of the majority of people who need help, but that seems unlikely.

(and yes, this probably should’ve been another thread.)

SNP, because Green is a non-starter around here. It’s either SNP or Tory, and that’s not a difficult choice to make.

How many of you have voted for other parties rather than your default option?

92 – Tory (I was 18, it was my first vote, I’d known a Tory government pretty much my whole life and lived in a very Tory constituency)
97 – Tory (I didn’t quite buy the New Labour thing)
Every one since – Lib Dem, as they, in Cougar’s words, were the closest fit to my views

Next one – god knows.

A number of my family are certain as to why hospital waiting times are up, GP appointments are hard to come by and ambulances are hours late.

It’s because we’ve wasted time and resources on something that’s no worse than the flu, there are too many foreigners using the NHS, illegal immigrants come here just to use it but don’t contribute, NHS staff are lazy/need to work harder, too many managers/not enough staff and they’re always off on another equality/diversity course rather than doing their jobs.

Totally pointless for me to ever argue as they already ‘know’ the causes.

If people raise a specific issue I restrict myself to advising they make a formal complaint to the relevant Trust and writing to their GP.

Seems to me that not many people are open to change; it’s totally pointless trying to change their minds – they don’t change and I just put my blood pressure up.

How many of you have voted for other parties rather than your default option?

I consider the Greens my natural home but #GTTO is the only game in town at the moment, so I vote Labour at the mo.

SNP, because Green is a non-starter around here. It’s either SNP or Tory, and that’s not a difficult choice to make.

Sounds like we might be neighbours! I’m in same position. My constituency has previously been a Lib Dem seat as well but not since they imploded following coalition.

Seems to me that not many people are open to change; it’s totally pointless trying to change their minds – they don’t change and I just put my blood pressure up.

People can change – that’s how we end up with different governments, after all – it’s just difficult to do. The right-wing aligned press are better at it than anyone else, but they do it unscrupulously. It is possible to do it ethically, in my view.

Weird there’s no chat in here about PMQs. Was it because Truss was actually quietly impressive and didn’t quite fit the charicature described by many on this thread? She was everything Johnson wasn’t: Direct, to the point, clear about what she believes and confident enough to make her case. Starmer has got real problems if this is going to be the norm.

People vote for parties led by people of whom they have a favourable opinion. That’s how Johnson got in. Nothing to do with policies. In fact, they don’t even talk about policies much any more. “Levelling up” or “Building back better” aren’t policies. How exactly are you going to level us up?

I think my first couple of GEs got a Tory vote because I was either young or had a business. I grew up a bit after those and the Blair years and voted Lib Dem because it was something that I could justify to myself. I kept it that way until I left the UK.

Here in Sweden I have tried to vote for what is best for the country and that does not include voting for the people that want to take it down the path that the UK or US took. We have an election coming and I shall vote to both keep the fascists and the neo-liberals out of office as much as I can.

Weird there’s no chat in here about PMQs.

Apart from where it was discussed earlier?

I’m not discussing it mostly because I didn’t see it.

Was it because Truss was actually quietly impressive

I highly doubt it.

Suella Braverman sounds special doesn’t she?

One ally said she was unafraid about taking on vested interests. “She will be Priti on steroids. Watch this space,” he said.

Note that was said by an ally, not an enemy!

I strongly suggest reading this if you want an idea what is on the horizon. Just grab a vomit bowl first, you will probably need it.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/sep/06/suella-braverman-home-secretary-set-to-take-even-harder-line-on-migration

I watched PMQs on catch-up earlier

She was as wooden as usual and didn’t perform very well at all. No doubt the braying backbenchers loved it.

Was it because Truss was actually quietly impressive

I listened to the whole thing. Forgetting about policy, morality or ethics and focussing purely on the pantomime performance of PMQ’s, I thought she did quite well. Starmer failed to land any real blows on her.*

*do not interpret this as me supporting her. I would rather eat my own testicles than support her or her party.

People can change – that’s how we end up with different governments, after all – it’s just difficult to do.

I think most people who change do so because of their own observations, and a very small number are persuaded to change by effective argument.

I don’t really fall into that category as a persuader so I’ll leave it to someone else.

I really don’t think the views of many of my family could be changed by anyone though.

I’ll be open and say I’ve voted Conservative for most of my life.

What made you stop being an uncaring racist? 😉

As a Morning Star reading communist all of my adult life I supported the Labour Party up until the point of New Labour, I then switched to the Liberal Democrats hugely supportive of Charles Kennedy’s leadership. I immediately abandoned supporting the LibDems when Nick Clegg lurched them to the right, then voted Green.

Momentarily I returned to supporting Labour under Jeremy Corbyn, I’m now back to voting Green.

I don’t hold CP membership (although I will attend activities) as party discipline requires members to support and vote Labour – I simply won’t do that. Ironically I have always been an LP affiliated member through my trade union, although I could of course opt out of paying the political levy. In fact at one time I even did a small monthly donation to the LP through standing order despite not being an individual LP member.

the-muffin-man
Full Member
I was going to start a new thread but seemed pointless..

How many of you have voted for other parties rather than your default option?

Growing up Labour would be the default ‘tribal’ vote, so voted labour in 97 as a first vote, then voted Scottish Socialist in the early 2000s but they turned out to be a shambles. Since then, I’ve moved on to voting SNP and lately Green as 1&2 in the scottish elections, SNP in westminster.

Latter day votes are more related to voting against the union mind you than any great support for the SNP. Saying that I do find the SNP vastly more palatable than the Tories or Labour.

My last council election vote was SNP, SNP, Green, Labour, Labour, Lib Dem.

What made you stop being an uncaring racist? 😉

Never been racist – I’m arsehole’ist – race is irrelevant, arseholes come from all backgrounds! 🙂

Main conservative allegiance came from my parents so up to my mid 30s that was how I voted. I’m your typical centre-ground floating voter now though.

How many of you have voted for other parties rather than your default option?

I’ve voted LibDem or Green most my life, depending on the voting system and chance of my vote counting. Even became a LibDem member when Kennedy was leader. Voted Labour in 2017 & 2019 though. I’m now helping out local Labour candidates beyond just voting for them. The UK is sliding towards something very unsavoury, year by year, and just voting isn’t enough. Like Ernie I’m not becoming a Labour Party member, because I have and will support other candidates for other parties in other seats… notably I always donate to Caroline Lucas’ fighting fund, and will continue to encourage those I know that live in her seat to vote to keep her in parliament rather than replace her with a Labour MP.

Truss was actually quietly impressive and didn’t quite fit the charicature described by many on this thread? She was everything Johnson wasn’t: Direct, to the point, clear about what she believes and confident enough to make her case. Starmer has got real problems if this is going to be the norm.

Yep

Forgetting about policy, morality or ethics and focussing purely on the pantomime performance of PMQ’s, I thought she did quite well. Starmer failed to land any real blows on her.*

*do not interpret this as me supporting her. I would rather eat my own testicles than support her or her party.

Yep

Was it because Truss was actually quietly impressive

Certainly not this, but she made a refreshing change from the “cheeky schoolboy” character Johnson played. I still want to slap her backbenchers silly with their stupid moos of approval.

My first vote was the general election of 1983. Apart from the few years when I was out of the country I’ve voted in pretty much every election (national or local) and referendum since as I’m one of those old school “voting is your civic duty” types. In that time I’ve voted (in no particular order):

Conservative
Labour
Lib Dem (or whatever they were called at the time)
Green
SNP
Scottish Socialist

I guess you could say I’m a floating voter 🙂

With the possible exception of the BNP I don’t think people who vote for any party are inherently bad. Different parties seem to offer different solutions to the same problems and you just have to pick the one that you think make most sense in the context of that particular election.

dazh
Full Member
Weird there’s no chat in here about PMQs. Was it because Truss was actually quietly impressive

I must have watched a different PMQs. Banal, and dedicated to huge profits for the rich is how I’d describe it. Far from impressive.

Banal, and dedicated to huge profits for the rich is how I’d describe it.

That would be pretty much my summation as well. Both Labour and the SNP emphasised that with their questions. I thought her first performance would be easier for her. All her backbenchers are super keen to look loyal and help launch her into a honeymoon period. It was obvious what questions she was going to face. It won’t get much easier than this week for her. My take away was… “Labour and the SNP don’t want us to give billions to gas companies to keep in profits…” …might play well to her IEA backers, contacts at Shell, and ERG cabinet members… but I don’t think it’s going to have her surging up the polls…

…it could be exactly what she wants though. Focus on holding onto her position this side of an election, by playing to “her people”, rather than worrying about what the wider public think about paying the fossil fuel giants and pushing more businesses their way.

Banal, and dedicated to huge profits for the rich

Of course she’s dedicated to huge profits for the rich she’s a tory! That really isn’t my point though. She only comes across as banal compared to Johnson’s court jester act. You could say instead that instead of simply blurting out what first comes to mind her answers were considered and well-judged and the result of a lot of preparation. Almost everyone on this thread (and I admit I’ve done it too in the past) has dismissed Truss as an unthinking idiot who is out of her depth. That’s not what we saw at PMQs.

Truss was okay I thought – first time and all. She’s not the absolute disaster everyone wanted her to be. Still a Tory etc. But not a stupid jester.

Starmer was ridiculous talking about pay-for. Centrists moving to this position – like Democrats. We want to help but only if we can afford it.

They quickly forget who they’re meant to represent.

Of course we can afford it. Making sure money isn’t thrown away into the profits of gas companies is the point. The Labour leader should not be in parliament supporting Truss as she funnels money into fossil fuel companies with the backing of the IEA (and whoever funds them… hint, it’s not people keen on renewable energy) both of which she has been paid by. They absolutely should be calling Truss out for this, as should, and are, the SNP and other opposition parties. Asking “who should pay” for the help, when the obvious and right answer is “those companies making billions of profits out of high gas prices”, isn’t the same as saying we can’t afford to help people as a country.

He should be in Parliament attacking the amount of support and how it gets here. That’s it.

He concentrated on the pay-for.

… her answers were considered and well-judged and the result of a lot of preparation.

As answers to Prime Minister’s Questions, I thought they were evasive and way short on substance, and she sounded a bit scared.

But, you know, perception is a funny thing.

Almost everyone on this thread (and I admit I’ve done it too in the past) has dismissed Truss as an unthinking idiot who is out of her depth. That’s not what we saw at PMQs.

Early days but I’m still to be convinced.

How many of you have voted for other parties rather than your default option?

Never – and I’ve never voted Conservative or SNP. I’m not saying I wouldn’t, I’m not tribal, but not once have they given me a reason to vote for them. I’ve voted LD for most of my life, but occasionally Labour if their policies or candidates were good ones. I liked what Tom Tugenhat was saying in the Leadership debates and I think it says something about my views vs the typical Conservative in that he was one of the first eliminated.

I have never voted. Without going into details, politics and voting was just never on my radar until recent years.

Living more of a stable, boring lifestyle these days. Registered to vote and everything! So I drift onto these politics threads occasionally trying to work things out and which way I should potentially vote in future. Other forums too, online sources, TV, friends and family etc.

I’m still none the wiser, growing up in a working-class background the consensus was always – Labour good, Conservative bad. But that was in the past and from my own experience as an adult growing up through both of them – they’re as bad/good as each other, in slightly differing ways. I wouldn’t consider myself left or right wing. I’m all over the place, mainly in the middle with a few bits from either end of the spectrum. And I’m hardly representative of the average British household. So I’m beginning to see that it’s probably best to vote in the interest of the majority of the population/country rather than for one’s own interests. ‘Least worst option’ as somebody else described it.

‘Least worst option’ as somebody else described it.

We all end up there, when voting in a FPTP system. It’s a mess. Your experience sound very normal to me.

Ultimately Liz Truss won’t be judged on her performance at PMQ’s, she will be judged on the economy as she has fixed her wagon to a very specific low tax for the rich model.

Her version of growing the economy back is not so much trickle down economics as it is a pissing on our backs and tell us it’s raining economics.

The likelihood is that any growth (stop laughing at the back) will be eaten up by inflation and currency devaluation.

She probably faces as much opposition from within her own party as she does from across the aisle, something she has doubled down on by selecting a cabinet that aligns with her own peculiar ideology rather than one that embraces what they call one nation Conservatism.

That and the fact that her predecessor has used up all the available dead cats. (I fear for Larry).

jambourgie wrote:

I’m all over the place, mainly in the middle with a few bits from either end of the spectrum. And I’m hardly representative of the average British household.

You would be surprised. I would say that is a fair summary of the bulk of the population. Something that doesn’t sit well with a 2 party FPTP electoral system (and don’t say there is are more than 2 parties to choose because the FPTP system makes that largely irrelevant.)

In a fptp marginal i vote vote the party most likely to beat the tories. But im in a safe smp seat nowadays.

In a safe seat fptp i vote green if available. List vote green.

Ive voted for independents. Ive never voted tory or snp. My mp is a liar and a carpetbagger tho snp. Snp might well get my vote if and when it becomes a defacto referendum but it might stay green. Details matter.

On pmqs i only have the Guardian to go on and they were quite impressed. Much to my suprise as i thought she would be poor

Btw i dont loathe tory voters. Its the party i loathe. Su tle difference