Liz! Truss!

There are some people who appear to think that the way to deal with people with whom you disagree is to hurl abuse until they go away.

Is that actually happening?

Quoting part of what I said is editing.

I disagree. I haven’t changed anything. I quote as a placeholder as to what I’m replying to, the original post is still available. I’m not trying to quote selectively but rather I fail to see the point in copying and pasting great swathes of text from three posts ago.

Many forums facilitate this sort of discourse and it’s tedious as all hell to read the same nested posts fifteen times over.

I try not to join in nowadays when a pile on occurs.

That’s the funniest thing you’ve said in bloody ages – you’re the first to pile-on!!

Really ?,I thought it was this.

There is no censorship here. If someone holds unpopular views then, well, that’s on them isn’t it.

The problem is that at each step, many countries (UK, USA, Turkey, Russia, Hungary, Brazil, Venezuela, Italy, France (nearly) etc etc all lurch further and further into nationalism (it’s what the Tory party is – the current English Nationalist party) then eventually it ends up in a war. As we see in the Ukraine already.
Hope you’re ready to sacrifice your offspring to it.

To be fair the last major wars that the UK was involved in occured under a Labour government.

I’m not sure how much nationalism played a part although the messianic complex of the Prime Minister undoubtedly did.

I’m not sure how much nationalism played a part although the messianic complex of the Prime Minister undoubtedly did.

Any Tory Gov would have joyously galloped into the valley of death,  don’t kid yourself

Kidding myself? The only Tory MP who didn’t vote for the Iraq war was Humphrey Mullins, who I helped Labour defeat in Croydon.

Of course the difference between Labour being the party of government and the Tories at the time is that if the Tories had been in government a hell of a lot more Labour MPs would have voted against the war.

But not on home soil.
I suppose if you’re happy to take the risk, then it’s fine. 🤔

And who led those wars, out of interest ? The uber right wing evangelically-backed Dubya Bush. Blair was just his patsy.

molgrips
Full Member
i refuse to hide my loathing of the tories.

There’s refusing to hide it; and there’s indulging the desire to shout about endlessly. To be fair you’re not too bad for for that.

Hiya!
I do post about my hatred of Tories.

I’m usually very pleasant to most people I meet and in my day to day life try and remain as helpful and positive as possible toward everyone. It seems to be the nicest way to live my life.
I don’t ask how people vote before I decide how I’m going to interact with them.

However, I reserve the right to express my opinion about Tory voters.
A fair, equitable society requires all sides to act in a decent, respectful manner.
I see voting Tory as an act of selfish aggression and disrespect to those less fortunate.
It causes needless misery and suffering to millions of people.
I’ve tried being decent about it, but rational debate requires empathy, respect and understanding on both sides.
I’ve come to realise that many Tory voters are incapable of genuine empathy. If they were, they wouldn’t vote Tory.
Being nice doesn’t work.

So, I feel no remorse about stating my views.

Kidding myself? The only Tory MP who didn’t vote for the Iraq war was Humphrey Mullins, who I helped Labour defeat in Croydon.

Of course the difference between Labour being the party of government and the Tories at the time is that if the Tories had been in government a hell of a lot more Labour MPs would have voted against the war.

of course your kidding yourself. The UK was going to war, and personal preference made no difference. voting against it in the knowledge that it would be a protest vote is different.

Oh okay.

glad you finally accept your personal dissonance.

the alternative explanation is that they placed their career above their conscience

Trying to find any positives in todays roling car crash/ERG takeover…. Watching Suella Braverman meeting her opposite number across the despatch box for the first time is going to be appointment telly

Yvette Cooper will chew her up and spit her out even more brutally than she did with Priti Vacant

the ERG cabinet has been replaced with the ERG cabinet of people who haven’t criticised truss. thats a pretty shallow pool of talent.

glad you finally accept your personal dissonance.

Well if you know what I think better than I do who am I to argue?

On a different subject, what you think of the new prime minister so far?

You have not answered. What specific thing did he get right?

The furlough scheme. It wasn’t perfect but it saved millions from destitution. I know multiple people who would have been screwed without it. My brother and his daughter would have been homeless without it. For a supposed rightwing ideologue (which he wasn’t) the furlough scheme was the very opposite of traditional Tory policy and went way beyond what some other supposedly more progressive countries did. You could even argue it cost him his job given the opposition from the nutters who were calling him a closet socialist.

So much doom and glom.

Have a kitten pic to brighten up this thread.(with added puppy)

Dazh

Half right is also half wrong. Furlough was massively skewed in favour of the well off and poorly constructed and administered.

TBH it may have been but I didn’t get any paid house redecorating leave, it was amazing when I went on my daily walk how many skips were in the area and the amount of renovation going on thou.

Err sorry for any insensitivity but not all fat pigs got fed up the arse then.

I disagree. I haven’t changed anything.

Shortening what someone said isn’t editing? Of course it is. I’ve done it just now.

That’s two occasions where you asked a question, I answered, and you chose to quote and respond to a different part of my post instead. Up to you of course, but it comes across as someone more interested in scoring points than anything else.

From my perspective, the shitter this latest bunch of clowns is, the better.

There is currently only one party who are capable (and interested) in running the country. The motivations of the Tories for being in power are entirely self-serving – it’s so blatant, they are barely bothering to even hide it these days.

The real risk (as I see it) following the spectacularly incompetent Johnson government, is that the truss government manages to convince enough boomers (apologies, but we know it’s true) that they aren’t as bad, and so vote them back in in the next GE.

“competent enough to disguise their awfulness” is the worst case scenario

@tj

It wasn’t perfect, it was a rush job however it did what it needed to do. Hindsight is brilliant. If it had taken longer to put through the damage would have been far greater.

The policy didn’t make people act fraudulently. People chose that option.

This threads going the same as every other with the same voices same rhetoric.

I know multiple people businesses who would have been screwed without it.

FTFY – I have little faith that the government that intoduced UC, PIP, releasing elderly covid patients into care homes and had to be shamed into feeding hungry children by a footballer introduced furlough payments out of the goodness of their hearts.

See also: £4 billion in covid loan fraud written off, plus Sunak’s wife being a shareholder of a firm that scooped a £1.3 million covid loan and still went bust owing £16 million.

Hold on there.

Being nice doesn’t work.

So, I feel no remorse about stating my views.

I’m not advocating suppressing your views. You can express your views and be civil about it. This has far more impact than spewing bile and venom. That does absolutely nothing of value, for readers on either side.

You can never change anyone’s mind by pissing them off. Ever. So my it just becomes acrimonious noise.

Again, not accusing you of doing that specifically; I don’t pay enough attention to who’s posting what.

You can express your views and be civil about it. This has far more impact than spewing bile and venom.

But what if you lack the confidence that you will be able to change someone’s mind?

I suspect that what has mostly silenced mefty and stopped him from expressing his opinions on here is the bile and venom.

I somehow doubt that me challenging him in a civil manner is the reason.

Again, not accusing you of doing that specifically; I don’t pay enough attention to who’s posting what.

So why post that response with a direct quote?

🤦

Anyway back to the thread….. Have you seen just how happy Truss looked in the photos?

She’s the rat  taking over the sinking ship yet can’t stop grinning like a Cheshire Cat. It does show how power corrupts people. Never assume these clowns are public servants, they are clearly in it for themselves.

Furlough could always have been better but the biggest thing to learn from it is that a government can support the economy with its own BoE for certain issues within the economy.

This was unthinkable especially in a Tory context (and still Labour ironically.) That’s the watershed.

And this leads on to what else can you do with new money creation / deficit spending – when it’s targeted at the parts of the economy the market has left behind?

It’s just a shame it’s only employed when everything is on its knees.

Left bollox?

I think this was unfairly overlooked among the squabbling and posturing.

If you think this lot are bad wait until the opposition unicorn riders are in govt, assuming if they can get in that is. I don’t see them doing well too considering many of them want to rejoin EU and constantly banging on about nonsense green energy (some of the die hard). Their leader (Starmer) will face the same prospects of in fighting.

Yesterday was bad. It was, in fact, very, very bad. If Johnson was a disaster, Truss has set out to be worse. I very much doubt that any prime minister has set out to create so many conflicts from the outset of their premiership in the way that Truss has. A thread….

— Richard Murphy (@RichardJMurphy) September 7, 2022

Left bollox?

Ernie made the joke subtly. I just made it overt

I don’t see them doing well too considering many of them want to rejoin EU and constantly banging on about nonsense green energy (some of the die hard).

I can see this being the way the next election is fought, as Truss and her new cabinet have plenty of form, both in government and working for opaquely funded “think tanks”, of blocking renewables and talking up fossil fuels. Australia gives me hope that it won’t work with the electorate though. This fuel crisis isn’t going to get the public on side with a rush for more oil and gas, they will want government action on insulation, energy conservation, and onshore renewables. Slagging of green energy will energise a certain base of base voters, but it isn’t (at least yet) popular with the wider voting public.

Thars the slow motion coup just about complete. Just the gerrymandering and further restrictions on unions and labour funding to complete it IMO.

As for truss as PM. My goodness that cabinet is both very poor in terms of competence and highlt frighting in terms of vile ideology.

Roll on scots independence. If that doesn’t happen soon then I will be leaving the UK. Scotland has voted for a different direction for 50+ years and been denied it

One thing that has become very clear on my travels is how much damage the tories have done over the decades and how much we have lost. Infrastructure and socially.

The 7th richest country in the world and we have people dying of starvation and levels of poverty far exceeding other theoretically poorer countries.

I am utterly disgusted by what decades of tory rule have done to our society

This government won’t survive.

I don’t think that even the majority of Tory MPs have any faith in them.

General Election by March.

I agree tj rural Ireland 20years ago was looking tired poor and struggling. This summer it was very European and felt as though it had a purpose (speaking to family and family friends from Longford to Cork.) France was a joy.
Britain is not feeling outward looking and willing to cooperate for the betterment of all

General Election by March.

Crystal ball time? New PM by the end of 2023… then an election in spring/summer 2024 (I can’t see any PM risking a winter election with what’s coming for the NHS and SMEs in upcoming winters).

I agree tj rural Ireland 20years ago was looking tired poor and struggling.

Not completely true – the Irish economy was booming from mid-90s to early-2000s. Where do you think the Celtic Tiger economy phrase came from?
I’ve still got family in rural Wicklow, Carlow and Leitrim and they look back on those times with fondness

Some might find this funny. I don’t, becuase I’m incredibly right-wing.

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/moron-has-a-good-feeling-about-truss-20220907225443