Listening to music made by artists who’ve turned out to be wrong’uns

I used to love the lost prophets. Watched them progress from their first single. The week after Ian Watkins was sentenced there was a full collection of their albums in the charity shop. Stopped all their music since I found out.

Being a “rong’un” has produced some of the most visceral music we listen to. Maybe it’s part the make-up and part social activism of the person, and we have to give thanks for that.

Like it though ? Well, that’s only an individuals choice isn’t it.

Anyone Not like a blast of

?

Yet politically and to some degree physically a “rong’un”

Another Lost Prophets fan here who has never listened to any of their stuff since the news came out. A sad one there as the rest of the band have been royally done over by one of their own. I’ve got 2 signed albums back at my parent’s house and am torn about what to do with them. They’ll never be worth anything but both were signed after great gigs as I got to meet them as a workmate knew them from before they made it.

The Glitter song in the Joker film, that was a surprising choice but then it’s used at sports games all over America to this day as they don’t really know who he was/is. It’s just a snippet of music used like they do with ‘We Will Rock You’ etc in pauses of play.

Michael Jackson? That’s a harder one to call as the waters are so muddy with him. Was he a victim/perpetrator/easy tabloid target? Probably a bit of each.

I’ll just judge each case on it’s own merit, it’s up to the record companies/film studios to sort out the financial side of things as the royalties will go to all of the people involved not just the artist in question.

It does raise a good question though, should we erase certain bits of cultural history or leave as is so that future generations can learn from it? Tough one.

Similarly what’s the deal with Die Antwoord

They are either getting a bit too into the parts they play or are actually homophobic racists and possible rapists.

Either way, they got dumped from pretty much all the festivals they were supposed to be playing this year.

Perchy, explain the pic please …. ta

🤷‍♂️

Agree with a lot of the above, Spacey etc. Morrissey was a particular blow as I really was a big fan of both smiths and solo stuff. Nick cave had an interesting take on it, that when the material is out there it’s the listener that has ownership of it rather than the artist. Explained a lot better than I have tried to summarise there. Worth a read of you Google it.

I’ll also chuck in Bono and U2, struggle to listen to these days.

Perchy, explain the pic please …. ta

It was painted by an artist by the name of Adolf Hitler.

Generally considered to be something of ” a wrong ‘un”

Here’s another one…

You can almost feel the evil staring out of it, can’t you?

Did Jedward paint it?

Nick cave had an interesting take on it, that when the material is out there it’s the listener that has ownership of it rather than the artist.

That’s fine for the days when we primarily listened to tapes, cds, and vinyl. They’ve already got your money and denying yourself the pleasure of listening to their music doesn’t make any difference.

Now with most music being streamed you’re giving them an admittedly tiny amount of money each time you listen but it all adds up.

Same with Morrisey – allways an utter bellend but dodgy politics does not invalidate him unless he steps over a line to racism or similar

You should probably do some reading, TJ. He once said that Germany was the rape capital of Europe because of all the immigrants, as a random example. There’s plenty more. Oh yeah, he’s a “For Britain” supporter, they’re the ones that make UKIP look cuddly.

Perchy wins the internet, again

Prefer the first one. Has a nice bucolic feel if a bit derivative

The Hiter pics are a bit different. The only reason you’d take any notice of those pictures is because of who they are by. What we are talking about is music which would be accepted as good ‘art’ in itself but where the artist is suspect in some way.

Yet politically and to some degree physically a “rong’un”

Johnny? Go on then, explain…

Any news on Ryan Adams? Haven’t been able to listen to his music since a thread on here.

I was lucky enough to be at your recent London show and you played Cosmic Dancer by T Rex. It reminded me how Morrissey also covered and released this. In turn it reminded me of my current struggle reconciling his recent unsavoury far right support to how I used to put him on a pedestal. Generally, is it possible to separate the latter-day artist from his earlier art? More specifically, what are your views on Morrissey, both early days and his newer more ugly persona?

The Nick Cave response.

What we are talking about is music which would be accepted as good ‘art’ in itself but where the artist is suspect in some way.

I don’t think Hitler recorded many songs.

Although I  believe his Nuremberg rap album was quite popular on the continent when it was first released.

Cougar

…
I don’t really have any moral issue with the Smiths. I’ve always thought they were shit, self-indulgent navel-gazing dreary toss.

edit – hang on, that might not work, try this one

Adolf Hitler designed the shape of the VW Beetle

No he didn’t. It was Porshe and some Austrian bloke who’s name I forget. Hitler just told ’em to do it.

I don’t think Hitler recorded many songs

Didn’t he write ‘Wir Fahren Gegen Engeland!!’, or was that Goering?

cougar – my point really was talk is somewhat different to actions. Unsavoury politics is not the same as rape.

I note what you say about Morrisey tho – since he started with the far right stuff I have simply ignored him so did not realise the extent of it. Perhaps he has crossed a line?

I don’t think Hitler recorded many songs.

His signature dance was popular though. Everyone in the streets was doing it for a while.

Didn’t he write ‘Wir Fahren Gegen England!!’, or was that Goering?

Dunno……His classic ” Four world cups and , you know, a score draw on the World War front come the summer, Oompah, Ooompah!”  was never release due to unfortunate circumstances.

I note what you say about Morrisey tho – since he started with the far right stuff I have simply ignored him so did not realise the extent of it. Perhaps he has crossed a line?

He definitely has to my mind. I could try and google you examples but, well, I’m sure you can do that also. (-:

Didn’t he once release a song about the National Front? Or have I imagined that?

He definitely has to my mind

How is it remotely relevant if you don’t like the music anyway?

Adolf Hitler designed the shape of the VW Beetle

No he didn’t.

Yes he did, for sketches follow the link below and there’s at least one further sketch I’ve seen but doesn’t seem to have made it on to the Iterweb.

https://tinyurl.com/yxzlfs6d

Hitler did a lot of graphic design work. Some more discussion of the Beetle and other symbols he came up with here:
https://ww2podcast.libsyn.com/selling-hitler

Morrisey – allways an utter bellend

This should be his strapline.

How is it remotely relevant if you don’t like the music anyway?

It isn’t to me. I was talking with someone for whom it might be.

Are you here for five minutes or the full half hour?

Yes he did, for sketches follow the link below and there’s at least one further sketch I’ve seen but doesn’t seem to have made it on to the Iterweb.

Huh. I sit corrected, apologies.

He once said that Germany was the rape capital of Europe because of all the immigrants, as a random example

what an idiot – when everytone knows it is really Sweden..

“In August 2018, SVT reported that rape statistics in Sweden show that 58% of men convicted of rape and attempted rape over the past five years were immigrants born outside of the European Union”

“In March 2018, newspaper Expressen investigated gang rape court cases from the two preceding years and found that there were 43 men having been convicted. Their average age was 21 and 13 were under the age of 18 when the crime was committed. Of the convicted, 40 out of the 43 were either immigrants (born abroad) or born in Sweden to immigrant parents.[51] Another investigation by newspaper Aftonbladet found that of 112 men and boys convicted for gang rape since July 2012, 82 were born outside Europe.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden

I read that wrong for a minute and thought 58% of men in Sweden comitted rape…

Wow…

Ride of the Valkeries – everyone loves it (well except the Viet Cong). But… Wagner!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_controversies

Off topic… but Josef Ganz and Ferdinand Porsche are the main names connected to the Beetle design. After all these years, it might be time to stop propagating propaganda about Hitler’s own contributions to the project. Airbrushing out Ganz’s work and replacing it with the idea that Hitler was the originator of the design is particularly nauseating.

Adolf Hitler designed the shape of the VW Beetle

No he didn’t. It was Porshe and some Austrian bloke who’s name I forget. Hitler just told ’em to do it.

His input is largely moot. The history of the Beetle and VW post-war is largely a positive one.

It’s easy to just say Hilter was this comic baddie who enslaved his own people before trying to take over the world, but the conditions that allowed him to such power came from WW1 reparations which were, to say the least, spiteful.

Germany wanted it’s version of the Model T (20 years later) as much for national pride as anything else. That’s what the Beetle was for, it wasn’t made to commit mass murder or form an Empire.

At the end of WW2 it would have be easy to repeat those mistakes, punish the German people with another generation (or 2) of reparations.

The VW factory was a wreck, it was a British Officer who over-saw it’s repair and re-opening. It gave local people jobs, created an economy and restored some pride. It gave German some much needed exports too.

They only made about 100k Beetles pre-war and about 21.5m post. It’s a loud, slow, polluting shit-box of a thing by today’s standards, but for it’s time it was an excellent design.

What has Roger Waters done?

Still waiting for an answer on this one. Went to see Us and them at the cinema Sunday, he seemed to push all the lefty liberal buttons. I’d love to know if I should feel guilty or not ??

The Beetle project was a way of getting more money from citizens to fund the war effort, and as a propaganda tool in the “people vs the elite” narrative Hitler depended on. No one got their “people’s car” until Hitler was taken out of the picture. It’s subsequent success and place as an international icon is a thing of joy and symbolic of the rebuilding of post war Germany… just don’t go claiming Hitler designed it.

No idea about Waters… his last album was pretty damn good… but he doesn’t exactly hide his bitterness at world politics… so if that’s not your thing… the lyrics may put you off the music.

I don’t think Hitler recorded many songs.

He’s pretty good in this one

https://youtu.be/Fsql523bSj4

Produced of course by another wrong un

I boycotted Die Antwoord about 12 seconds into the first of their ‘songs’ I heard (I’d just seen Chappie) on account of the fact they’re **** awful and they produce awful cliched toss.

Lost Prophets, I feel for the rest of the band, they’re fairly local to me and whenever they come up in conversation you end up speaking to someone who knew someone, who knew someone, who knew one of them.

Apparently they were all nice Lads, including Watkins at the start. He wasn’t born Evil, he was never short of Ego even before they were a band and he certainly went that way. IN the last few years of the band he was meant to be unbearable, very controlling and sadistic with it, he liked younger women and got off degrading them. Went he got into Crack everything got worse, nothing was too extreme for him. The band didn’t speak or associate with him outside of performances.

A relative of mine was working at Parc Prison when he was on remand, again this is mostly rumour, but apparently he never accepted he did anything wrong, his Barrister had to convince him to plead guilty on some counts at the last possible opportunity, but only as a way to reduce his sentence and to work on an appeal. He’s a nightmare prisoner, he can at least convince prisoners (and staff probably) he has the means to offer them money outside of prison to get phones etc and he’s still trying to groom young women with Kids, refuses treatment etc. He’s due for release in 2041, he could technically be released in 2031, but he’ll have to prove remorse to the parole board and he’s too arrogant to do it convincingly.

Apparently there’s still a fan base, even some of his solo projects are still shared on file sharing sites, the mind boggles.

I note what you say about Morrisey tho – since he started with the far right stuff I have simply ignored him so did not realise the extent of it. Perhaps he has crossed a line?

Most definitely crossed a line. Has been nearing the line over the last 10 years or so but is now well over it. Based on that I choose not to listen to him.
What he says may not bother some of you but so what, it bothers me so I make that choice.

As long as nothing bad comes out about Mark E Smith (that I don’t already know) I am still okay.

As much as I like Ian Brown I do not like that he is a stoner. Hardly a bad crime I know but it still irrates me.

just don’t go claiming Hitler designed it.

I don’t think anyone has – the evidence doesn’t support it.

What the evidence does support is that Hitler designed the ‘shape’ of it and that shape persisted into the 21st century.

In the context of this thread that’s relevant. In the context of history less so since AFAICT all cars in the early 40s were styled like that and the ‘design’ I’ve seen was little more than a curved line.