Lighten my bike or new XC build

If your aim is speed on an xc corse, then unless your are particularly light or talented then I’d spend the money on an fs frame over lighter components.
Saving 1kg will make you ~ 1% faster on the steepest climbs and have less impact everywhere else. Being able to cruise over roots sat down when knocked without the back wheel catching and slowing you down is huge.

“Saving 1kg will make you ~ 1% faster on the steepest climbs and have less impact everywhere else.”

That depends on how much the OP weighs. 1kg is a lot to a small light maybe less strong rider, but not a lot to a bigger heaver rider maybe stronger rider.

76kg and 186cm. Never going to be super lightweight. Not got much fat left to shift!

It may not even save the 1% as an XC course is the opposite of a smooth tarmac test hill and there are many more variables with line choices, traffic and so on.

I suppose the question is why do you want a lighter bike and what do you think it will do for you?

(realise this is not helping as you just want to know what to change to make your bike lighter but when I ask myself the same question I just want a light bike because I do!)

Guess I’m looking at the total savings. If I saved 1.5-2kg off the current bikes weight + the weight I’ve lost then your looking at 7-9% change in combined weight with a slight increase in power. I’d expect that to be significant though admittedly I’ve lost more than the possible bike weight savings so most of that change is already freely available :D. Being honest though yes lighter because I do.

Specialized still have some of their Epic hardtails at 40-ish% off…

https://www.specializedconceptstore.co.uk/shop/bikes/mountain/model/epic-hardtail/

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266677551571?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=8BDlhLGmTLe&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=_ApJghf9RKy&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Very fast very light, brilliant handling. Oh, and a lovely paint job.

Specialized still have some of their Epic hardtails at 40-ish% off…

I am tempted by one of those but even with that discount the parts are average but then I guess you are paying for the frame.  Does claim to be around 11kg with pedals so not bad.

I know it is second had but I would get the Cannondale.

I love a Cannondale
I love a lefty
I would budget for a service on the fork on buying that cannondale

Doesn’t look like it’s been ridden much. £4250 new! But yeah, a service might be prudent.

These : https://ciclimattio.com/en/p/cannondale/scalpel-ht-carbon-4-acid-red-100mm-m?continent=EUEXTRA&country=GB&currency=GBP

https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/bikes/mountain-bikes/cannondale-scalpel-ht-carbon-4-review

Are superb, especially for £1500. It was my next choice after the 2023 Scott Scale that I ended up building, definitely worth a look. Sorted Geo, Great fork, and 12 speed XT. Worth a lookk. The Scotts have a similarly great frame but thw specs arent as good/they dont appear to have been discounted as much (I built up from the full RC team frame in the end).

Cannondale looks lovely, neat paint job. Wrong size for me (would need the XL).

£1424 shipped in the less popular colour!

Are superb, especially for £1500. I

Hmm, mainly deore, cheap brakes and cheap heavy wheels.

I forgot to add – I’ve been gushing about my Scott Scale on here quite a bit recently. I’ve had loads and loads of Hardtails, usually the typical UK trail bike style – and yes, I’ve done XC races on bikes like that too.

I suppose the question is why do you want a lighter bike and what do you think it will do for you?

I made a decision this time to build a proper XC race bike (and outside of top level racing I still think a hardtail has merit here, at the enthusiast level) and whilst its only a ‘bit’ lighter here and a ‘bit’ lighter there, and as part of the system weight (bike&rider) the difference is minimal – it really does feel different – urgent, agile, acclerative. As an alternative to my FS trail bike its brilliant and for a 70min XC effort through some woodsy singletrack its bloody brilliant. I am convinced this nature of the bike urges me on and thus makes me faster than I would have been on a heavier (steel, perhaps) ‘trail’ hardtail, a Cotic or whatever.

It’s been a long time since anyone beat me at a race on a hardtail. FS is definitely faster.

Oh it is. But you need to be doubling your budget.

Not an XC racer but

The SPD comment above is a big game changer, not for weight, but being able to securely pedal a hardtail through rough horrible stuff rather than just roiling through can make a lot of difference in maintaining speed

it really does feel different – urgent, agile, acclerative.

Yep, that is why I like very light bikes – they feel nicer so I enjoy riding more.  In a race context that is still important but presumably not as important as the effect on lap time which may not be any different between say a 10kg bike and a 12kg bike.

I had my Cotic BFeMAX built up pretty light (12.4kg without pedals) with Performance Elite Forks, Hunt XC Race wheelset and some other light-ish bits and it felt pretty speedy…until I built up a Yeti ARC frame with mostly the same parts.

It came in somewhere in the mid-10’s (ended up with some lighter XC cranks and a couple of other minor tweeks, but same fork and wheelset/tyres) and the weight is certainly one thing, but the way it just surges forwards under power and encourages you to stomp on the pedals to crest a climb rather than perhaps change a gear or two and just ‘get to the top’ was very unexpected. I’ve always loved a Steel hardtail and I’ve since built the Cotic back up to a burlier spec but I was pretty surprised by the difference, so I think the short version of the above is: Do it, it’ll probably make you faster and almost certainly make you feel faster even if you’re not.

There were definitely instances last year where I lost footing on flats that on spds would have just gone into the stroke. Also climbs I didn’t make as can’t pedal quite as smooth on flats. Cutting those occurrences should be worth a decent chunk of time.

As a fellow occasional midpack XC amateur, I’d recommend the following in order:

1.SPDs

2.Tyres – fast rolling, not necessarily lightest, but a good XC tyre from any of the good brands will be light.

3.Full suss of the XC race variety (this is the most expensive step, so budget might dictate skipping this one)

4.Lighter wheels

All before you start even thinking about overall bike weight.

Think I have 1&2 covered. Step 3 is a huge one, there is no reasonably priced option here (unlike say trail full sus bikes), I’m keen to avoid that as would be n+1 and a second full sus to run.

Are superb, especially for £1500

I love the look of the Scalpel too, but isn’t that an Italian retailer, and ordering to the UK you’d have to pay import duty as well as Italian VAT? Closer to £2000 then.

But modern XC race bikes, especially FS ones aren’t as light as you’d think – certainly not 00’s level of silliness – as they’re built to withstand WC XCO courses, some of which would make the majority of riders on here reconsider their life choices if they had to ride them on a proper XC race bike.

😀 Good point, i went from an approx 20lb Ti HT, to an 18lb Carbon HT then to a 26lb ally FS which was faster in every way than both it’s predecessors (even though it was fairly low budget in comparison, SLX instead of XTR, Reba instead of top end fox.) Only place it lost out was hike a bike and only one bottle cage…

That’s now been replaced by a 23 ish lb carbon FS and a “Big bike” that still only weighs in at around 26 lbs (it’s not that big really, just set up for going down and playing. Than going fast.)

Both of them are quicker to get around on than anything i’ve had previously.

All weights are approximate, because it really doesn’t matter much.

It’s an odd place to be when a Santa Cruz (blur) looks reasonably priced!

Acceleration is an interesting point to raise. A lighter bike will accelerate quicker. Maybe not by much but if thats on every corner, every overtake, every climb etc, it will add up on a long ride/race. Its not just about 1 situation.

The combination of SPDs, low weight, and good suspension (locked out when accelerating) does make a big difference.

A lighter bike will accelerate quicker.

Maybe but not measurably. If my overall weight is 80KG I don’t think making the overall weight 78KG is going to be noticeably quicker around a loop.  It will feel quicker/better though which is all that matters to me.

The Cannondale Scalpel will be £2,000 with all the add on in import & handling fee. I spent some time looking into this recently and came up with:

– Cannondale Scalpel hardtail
– Specialized Epic Evo
– Cannondale Scalpel full suss
– Marin Team Marin

Hmm in a bit a change of plan I’ve decided to go all in. I was researching second hand FS frames and stumbled on the Lapierre XRs at Paul’s. Didn’t notice these before but decided to take a punt on the 9.7 (https://www.paulscycles.co.uk/bikes/mountain-bikes/lapierre-xr-race-79-full-suspension-mountain-bike-2023-purple__12632).

Intention will be to sell the drive chain, brakes and wheels (as these are basically the factory version of what I have). Reading around the frame is the same for the XR and XRM versions with just a longer shock stroke on the XRM and 120mm forks (the same shock length my aether uses). I may therefore also sell the forks and run my pikes until I can afford some SID ultimates. Wheels will get lightened at a later date (rebuild my 240s). I’ll move most of the Tarn’s drive chain over but perhaps swap the eewings from the Aether and it’s XT rear mech.

The Tarn frame will go in the loft for the minute.

Only part of the new bike I don’t like is press fit bb, Will have to work this out at the start though as will need to swap the BB to a 30mm one.

First Southern xc round is next weekend. Not expecting to ride it for that unless it turns up super quickly. Will call Paul’s and ask for no PDI since I’m stripping it down anyway.

Correction to my earlier comment regarding weight of the Lapierre Prorace 7.9. Lost a kg somewhere, it was 10.97kg.

Those Lapierre on Pauls Cycles look amazing value. Now you have me looking at the XRM 6.9… that’s a jaw droppingly good deal with a dropper, carbon frame and SID Charger fork for £1,550.

They do seem good value. I went for the XR for two reasons, one the colour 😜 and 2 the wheels will be an easier sell. The SID I think is likely to be the older model with less bushing overlap. Probably being over cautious.

I have been interested in these Lapierre XR/XRMs too, the problem is that there’s not much information about them online apart from a Pinkbike review that absolutely pans the XRM.

The review said that the shock barely functioned and the carbon frame was cracked by a rock strike. Probably the worst review I’ve ever seen on that site, but you have to wonder if they are able to more critical about a brand that doesn’t exist in NA.

You can find other reviews online if you change your language to Dutch and translate and those are fairly positive.

Would never buy at full price when stuff like Epic Evo is around the same, but at the discount I am considering it. The components alone are worth a bit and could be swapped to a better frame. And the frame could be a pleasant surprise.

The Prorace looks like a safer bet, Bikeradar liked it but again I would worry about the durability of the carbon plus the chainstays at 420mm seem awfully short for an XL rider, that’s out of proportion with any other comparable frame.

It seems like I’m finding a reason not to buy these bikes, but searching for information about Lapierres online it genuinely feels like a ghost town. Even on STW barely a peep. Even at a 60% discount its hard to find the will to buy something that nobody is talking about.

I found several reviews of different models. Will try to dig them out. My thinking is that I’d likely be able to dispose of it for not too much of a loss if I don’t like it.

Ha.. 🙂 I have just been trawling the net for reviews of the Lapierre XRM 6.9, only decent review I could find was the bike radar one:

Lapierre XRM 6.9 review

such a well specified bike for the money Paulscycles are selling them for. I do wonder if they would be hard to sell on as it’s not well known in the UK. The front end cabling looks terrible, I would be looking to neat that up a lot, remove the remote lockout and put a better dropper level on, then it looks a great bike for UK riding.

The Dutch review of the XR 7.9 seemed pretty good to me. I won’t be using mine anywhere with rocks (aether is built for that type of riding). Also this Belgium one which seems good to me.

100% getest: Lapierre XR 7.9

The PB review was a bit odd.

Also this one of the XR, translated again. https://en.brujulabike.com/testing-lapierre-xr-9-9-xc/

Seems strange that they haven’t sold out of a bike that was £4,000 but is now £1,500 doesn’t it especially when it meets the down country criteria that I would think many would be after.

I suppose that is what happens when the brand is not one of the commonly known ones?

If they had a medium I would be tempted to try my first full suspension bike.

Not that widely known shop that until very recently had a rubbish website. It seems they mostly have XS and XL left.

It might be a mistake, we shall see.

Hard to see you going wrong TBH, they are well known in Europe and well known in XC circles. The bikes look really nice and for the prices are worth the sum of the components. The XRM 6.9 is not a light bike, the size large weighted 13.2kgs in the review above, I think a fair chunk of that is from the cheaper driver train and Mavic wheelset.