Life is hard living on £120k a year.

but it doesn’t happen across the board and not to the extent that people who are ‘outside’ think it does.

So If you are not privately educated we are on the outside ? Mmmmmm

geetee1972 – apologies, yes I agree, the jobs are rarely as easy as people think, speaking as someone who rose from entry level to senior posts. But I’ve given up arguing the point…

So If you are not privately educated we are on the outside ? Mmmmmm

That was from the pov of people who think that there is some big old boys network/conspiracy, not mine. Some of my best friends were state educated 🙂

geetee1972 – apologies, yes I agree, the jobs are rarely as easy as people think, speaking as someone who rose from entry level to senior posts. But I’ve given up arguing the point…

Have these senior jobs got very much harder over the years? I ask because remuneration seems to have increased out of all proportion to what ordinary people earn.

I am surprised the footer passed without comment…

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😉

Late to the party but…

When people get pay increases, the tend to live to thier means. Its hard to give up nice houses, private Ed for kids etc and go through the pain of downsizing if you don’t have to, therein the guy in the article feels squeezed, and is coping to maintain that lifestyle. Also who wouldn’t try to keep the decent house if you felt a bit of squeezing now will leave you in a better position later?

Does anyone really start there career in a one bedroom bedsit on £20kpa, rise to £120kpa and not adjust their lifestyle accordingly? I’m not saying you can’t, just that people don’t.

But I’ve found the real issue:

swapping Ocado deliveries for trips to Tesco,

Me and Mrs K have discovered that physical shopping results in a considerably larger food bill than internet shopping, and that’s before you add in the cost of fuel to travel to the shop etc.

So in our case, Ocado has actually, yes really, been a cost saving.

Well worth a proper read later whilst consuming some Lidl wine 🙂

Have these senior jobs got very much harder over the years? I ask because remuneration seems to have increased out of all proportion to what ordinary people earn.

Of course not. With the wonders of modern technology and communications, it’s probably far easier to manage a large organisation than it was 30 years ago. My father-in-law, who himself was a senior manager at a large publishing firm in the late 80s/early 90s often rants about how senior executives these days have lost all sense of morality, fairness, and integrity when it comes to remuneration. It’s even more galling when you see public sector executives with their noses in the trough trying to keep up with their private sector peers.

ransos – probably yes – but in the same way lots of other people’s jobs have. Long hours without extra pay, expectation to respond out of hours, immediate solution demanded on every issue due to media pressure etc

Dazh – i’d argue it was more difficult because of the technology – the world moves much faster now – albeit generating more heat than light.

I do agree that in some (but not all) cases the wages are (have) inflated due to there being a closed shop doing the hiring to similar posts by similar people – particularly board level posts [edit]

I think a rebalancing of work and salaries would do everyone a favour. I consider myself well out of it tbh

who wants 1000 new homes in the fields around their village/town? and it will push down property prices.

But it wont push prices down in the current climate. You’d have to carpet the countryside before that happens.

Oh and for the record I live in Horsham, which currently has four separate developments and 5000 new homes being built, which I am all in favour of.

Ugly boxes being built for a large asking price, squeezed into as small as space as possible to maximise the profit for the house builders. They are also in Horsham.

Have these senior jobs got very much harder over the years? I ask because remuneration seems to have increased out of all proportion to what ordinary people earn.

No they haven’t, but those who do these senior jobs have been receiving the kind of remuneration packages that “risk takers” in the city are often rewarded.

Why would for example the chief exec of Isle of wight council of all places receive £210,000Pa for his services? Not to mention the ridiculous amount of pay the execs get from the privatised utilities.

why would you offer yourself up for a story like that in a national newspaper? Is he that desperate for £££?
£120k is so far from the ‘squeezed middle’ that the whole tale comes across as a constructed story for clicks to me…

It’s all perspective.
He’s struggling because he chooses to pay for private tuition, that’s his choice and actually quite selfless.

If you switch it around and lower the scale, a lot of my friends are skint yet can afford iPhones/Nice trainers/Sky TV and nights out. 95% of could probably be mocked in a similar way by the poorest in the UK for our exuberant lifestyles.

Have these senior jobs got very much harder over the years? I ask because remuneration seems to have increased out of all proportion to what ordinary people earn.

I think that’s a very interesting question, worthy of an MBA or even DBA dissertation.

My instinctive reaction based on experience, education (an MBA) and knowledge of how senior leadership roles actually work, I would say yes they have and by quite a large degree.

I’d need 30,000 words to satisfy the argument, but a few pithy examples would be:

The complexity of managing the media in a very media savvy world made even more complex by social media (Co-Op is a brilliant case in point).

Risk – being exposed to many more risks and being accountable for those risks

Span of Control has typically increased as businesses moved from large conglomerates and extensions of empire to fragmented ownership structures and ‘agency principle’ management teams.

Technology means more data means more requirement to be able to analyse and respond to that data.

Have these senior jobs got very much harder over the years? I ask because remuneration seems to have increased out of all proportion to what ordinary people earn.

I would argue he is an ordinary person. Ordinary people are earning a lot more than they used to 20 years ago. A mid ranking compliance officer isn’t a senior person. He’s not a high flier and he wouldn’t describe himself as such I am sure.

I wonder whether we would have the same argument here if it where a couple earning £60k each ? They would actually be far better off as their tax bill would be a lot lower.

I wonder whether we would have the same argument here if it where a couple earning £60k each ? They would actually be far better off as their tax bill would be a lot lower.

In both cases if they were sending their offspring to be privately educated, then yes it would be the same.

It’s been a good number of years since I was in education without a choice about being there, but when I was at school (private) school there was an enormous sliding scale of term fees and perceived benefits… My parents went out of their way to put me and my sister through private education, that was their choice. But they also had the choice to spend £5k per annum per child too, it didn’t have to be £25k.

I was fortunate, I know this, I had privileges that aren’t afforded to many. But by the same token, my parents did their homework, chose our schools based upon a number of criteria, but didn’t spend beyond their means. For many people, myself included right now, the notion of having £10k a year to spend on school fees even is absurd. But… It’s still £35k a year less than this guy chooses to spend!

I know people from all walks of life, those that have been through rough state schools right up to those that have been to the most expensive private schools. I can say categorically that the cost of a terms fees, has little or no bearing on the outcome of the child in the long run! Choosing a school cos it is known to achieve good grades and have high achievers will make more difference than throwing money at the problem. When I was at school, my school was consistently one of the top performing schools in the county despite its term fees being one of the lowest for private schools in the area, but there were also high performing state schools kicking on its heels too. There was also uber expensive boarding schools with very poor performances too!

Anyway… That’s enough for balance… Let the left resume their ranting… 😉

actly do you think the ‘old boys’ network will actually do?

IME, unless maybe you’re an Etonian or from one of the other prestige private schools (which is a very different thing from the best academic ones) then it’ll do sweet FA for them beyond the education and learning they get at the school. Even then I’d suggest that in a lot of industries, Etonians and the like wouldn’t get any benefit.

No idea about networks. But I heard on radio 4 ( does that make me middle class 😉 ) that kids from private schools with the same degree from the same uni as a former state kid still go on to earn more post uni. Even though state kids with the same a level grades as a private kid do better in their degrees. Would love to spend a few weeks with cannoco and that data set.

Oh an mboy the data doesnt seem to fit your narrative.

It might have a bearing on whether or not the kid has a good time though. I’m not sure I’d enjoy sending my kid to some really rough school… I know I’d have hated that as a kid, being me.

Depends on their choices I suppose, but even if their state schools are bad you’d expect they could find something decent for a lot less than £45kpa. Unless they have 7 kids or something, cba to read the original article.

But I heard on radio 4 ( does that make me middle class ) that kids from private schools with the same degree from the same uni as a former state kid still go on to earn more post uni.

I think that just proves that there is more to being successful in life than getting good grades.

With intelligence and education, the principle of ‘good enough’ may well hold true. While it is strongly shown (in empirical data) that intelligence is positively correlated with advancement along the leadership career path, it is only the case to a point. Beyond a certain IQ, more IQ doesn’t make any difference.

Here’s the school fees page

http://www.lordwandsworth.org/school-fees-229112.html

I think that just proves that there is more to being successful in life than getting good grades.

Nothing new there, work ethic, social skills etc, all learnt from parents will have a huge affect career wise. Good grades is only a small part of the story.

Indeed. It would be interesting to see if that could be factored out of the analysis though.

But I heard on radio 4 ( does that make me middle class ) that kids from private schools with the same degree from the same uni as a former state kid still go on to earn more post uni.

Not surprising that kids who have parents that are driven by money, are driven by money themselves.

Even when they have both done a degree in art history?

You learn so much from your parents, and you also take their example. If a parent is a business person and every meal time they are talking about their deals and projects, the world of business will seem normal and comfortable, so you’ll be more likely to enter that. To me, business was a strange mystery world, so I never imagined myself doing it.

Not surprising that kids who have parents that are driven by money, are driven by money themselves.

That’s a massive assumption to make. Being driven by success in your field is not the same as being driven just by money.

Case in point, why do so many millionaires who have already made their fortune continue to do what they do? It’s not because they need the money.

I understand that it might be easier and more comfortable for the far left to regard everyone who earns significantly more than the mean or the median as being purely driven by money but reality doesn’t confirm that notion.

Even when they have both done a degree in art history?

Mickey Mouse degree, I bet their parents were gutted.

[Quote]art history?[/quote] go to the right school and you get to be the chancellor of the exchequer

Mickey Mouse degree, I bet their parents were gutted.

I did a ‘mickey mouse’ degree and it hasn’t hindered my earning potential. Shoot my brother did a PE degree and he’s making quite a bit more than £120k.

My supposition is that there is no such thing as a mickey mouse degree, only mickey mouse people.

Well isnt your brother great geetee. Whats your point though?

My point is that there is no such thing as a mickey mouse degree, only mickey mouse people.

I get very riled by the term mickey mouse degree. It’s ignorant of the facts and terribly arrogant.

Oh and yes, my brother is a genuinely lovely bloke. Not perfect (far from it), but he is a good person and a great father.

These threads (and articles like the one in the OP) usually make me think:

1. I’m not middle class;
2. I’m glad I’m not middle class.

I get very riled by the term mickey mouse degree.

Well you’ve only yourself to blame for that. If you’d have done a proper degree you wouldn’t be so easily upset.

These threads (and articles like the one in the OP) usually make me think:

1. I’m not middle class;
2. I’m glad I’m not middle class.

and

3. I’m glad I didn’t do a Mickey Mouse degree

Well you’ve only yourself to blame for that. If you’d have done a proper degree you wouldn’t be so easily upset.

True, hence why I did the MBA at a good school

I’m middle class. My 3 year old son tlod me I couldnt eat a carrot without houmous the other day!

Whats a MBA? I thought people just bought those off the internet?

1. I’m not middle class;
2. I’m glad I’m not middle class.

That’s about the most middle class thing you could have said 😉

These threads (and articles like the one in the OP) usually make me think:
1. I’m not middle class*;
2. I’m glad I’m not middle class.

LOLz Mike! Anyone who’s been to university (esp our alma mater) is middle class, irrespective of where they came from.