Legal advice please – cancelling a new car dispute

MTT – Member

This has been a wonderful read.

I’m the one in the middle east browsing Mini hatches.

You are on a Windows PC using Firefox… logged on in Muscat, Oman, and it’s 32 degrees hot.

I nearly missed you there. Insh’allah!

– Ling

(ROLFMAO etc etc)

You had to go there didn’t you.

Itchin’ real bad.

Here’s MMT on my website, browsing Minis. And I thought they shot LGBTQ people in Oman?, heh…

Which is a risk you take as a business owner with a business model that relies on leveraging goods and services.

Nope, the contract says it’s a risk the buyer takes on.

I’d be interested to know what happens when you order a car from the factory and exchange rates change increasing the cost of the vehicle? Does this get passed to the consumer / trader / broker or does the manufacturer guarantee the price for factory orders?

The contract doesn’t mention exchange rate changes so the individual buyer doesn’t take those on. (Although those costs must ultimately be paid by the customer base as a whole, of course.)

Here’s MMT on my website, browsing Minis. And I thought they shot LGBTQ people in Oman?, heh…

Huh.

I don’t even need a car but want to lease one from Ling now, just to see what happens.

This is keeping me entertained whilst we wait for Mrs Funk to go in for her Caesarian 😀

Jamie – Member

Here’s MMT on my website, browsing Minis. And I thought they shot LGBTQ people in Oman?, heh…

Huh.

Oh, God. Here we go.

perchypanther – Member

I’m itchin’ though. Seriously itchin’

Anticipates ‘What cream for cycling related STI?’ thread…

Nope, the contract says it’s a risk the buyer takes on.

Can’t sign away your rights.

I get the impression Ling is enjoying this as much as the rest of us!

If you subsequently cancel ‘agency’ charges may apply

There’s the problem. Why not:

Once signed you are committed. If you cancel you will be charged £500. Do you understand this?

In floro yellow of course.

This thread is magnificent, it has also put Ling to the top of my list on where I will procure my next day.

+1

Oh, God. Here we go.

What? I think it’s a perfectly rational response to someone looking at Minis.

sr0093193 – Member
Nope, the contract says it’s a risk the buyer takes on.
Can’t sign away your rights.

In the business I’m in, expecting a customer to absorb fees to a reasonable amount for cancelled orders is common, and fully legal. We can end up thousands of £ in the red for build-outs, all of which are custom, and this is made clear to the customer upfront, pointed out to them in the T&Cs, and has a big signature box with thick bold lines around it.

Totally, totally legal, and protects us from massive liabilities, without which we could potentially go under.

If you tell a customer that reasonable fees for a purpose-built item may be charged and they agree, they’re not signing anything away.

Hmmmm…

The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013

Limits of application: circumstances excluding cancellation

28.—(1) This Part does not apply as regards the following—

(b)the supply of goods that are made to the consumer’s specifications or are clearly personalised;

About a month ago, someone on here ordered a custom Hope wheel from their lbs; might have been weeksy from memory.

Anyway, he changed his mind and was asking people’s opinion of not actually buying the wheel as I don’t think he’d paid a deposit for it, so there was nothing to lose.

I think pretty much everyone called him out for it being a pretty crap thing to do, to leave the shop in the lurch with the wheel and he should buy it, given that he requested it.

Similarly in this situation, it would be the right thing to do for the OP to just stump up and pay this cancellation fee, or whatever it is called.
He set the ball rolling, then changed his mind once a deal was done.

Greybeard – Member
Hmmmm…

The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013
Limits of application: circumstances excluding cancellation

28.—(1) This Part does not apply as regards the following—

(b)the supply of goods that are made to the consumer’s specifications or are clearly personalised;

Exactly this.

🙄 It’s not making a bespoke cabinet, or your industry.

sr0093193 – Member
It’s not making a bespoke cabinet, or your industry.

No. Its making a bespoke car with a bespoke specification.

Can’t sign away your rights.

True, but not relevant to this agreement.

Here’s MMT on my website, browsing Minis. And I thought they shot LGBTQ people in Oman?

Genuine LOL.

I suspect a court would want to see an accounting of what the costs actually were and Ling has to mitigate her costs by reselling the car / cancelling it. Ling would win reasonable costs

I’ve come into this a bit late but this is golden.

What? I think it’s a perfectly rational response to someone looking at Minis.

For the record I shall be saying no more because this is now in the hands of a solicitor and I’ve been advised not to add anything else until further notice.

I suspect a court would want to see an accounting of what the costs actually were and Ling has to mitigate her costs by reselling the car / cancelling it. Ling would win reasonable costs

Correct, contract law from what i recall (business version, for customers cancelling orders for special specification material, etc.) requires that the costs must be in line with losses incurred, and cannot be excessive / ‘penalties’. However, as with the parking ones recently, there’s also a question of whether a cost is ‘unconscionable’. So even if it was in the T&C’s that were signed to, a clause saying that if you cancel you will have to pay £10,000, or give up a kidney, or whatever would be unfair and not upholdable. But £500 on a £30K car? I suspect that would be considered reasonable especially as Ling originally seemed to be saying she would do what she could to minimise the cost with her supplier too.

(Although PP puns would be the bacon sprinkles on top)

True, but not relevant to this agreement.

Other than you right to cancel finance within 14 days without penalty. Which is infringed upon because it’s intrinsically linked to goods being ordered before the cooling off period for the finance has passed.

sr0093193 – Member
True, but not relevant to this agreement.
Other than you right to cancel finance within 14 days without penalty. Which is infringed upon because it’s intrinsically linked to goods being ordered before the cooling off period for the finance has passed.

No, its not intrinsically linked. If someone is out of pocket for ordering something on your behalf, they can claim those reasonable costs back.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/changed-your-mind/changing-your-mind-about-something-youve-bought/

“If you bought the item online, over the phone or by mail order

You automatically get a 14-day ‘cooling-off period’ when you buy something you haven’t seen in person – unless it’s bespoke or made to measure.“

This was a built-to-order car.

About a month ago, someone on here ordered a custom Hope wheel from their lbs; might have been weeksy from memory.

Anyway, he changed his mind and was asking people’s opinion of not actually buying the wheel as I don’t think he’d paid a deposit for it, so there was nothing to lose.

I think pretty much everyone called him out for it being a pretty crap thing to do, to leave the shop in the lurch with the wheel and he should buy it, given that he requested it.

Similarly in this situation, it would be the right thing to do for the OP to just stump up and pay this cancellation fee, or whatever it is called.
He set the ball rolling, then changed his mind once a deal was done.

^^^ This. And a fantastic example too.

Well it kind of is, because ling has linked it and the finance pays for the car – she even admitted above that cancelling the finance automatically cancelled the car. Hence you’re looking at the wrong bit of law – it’s not distance selling, it’s finance selling.

Anyway, what sort of car for Russia or Peru? 😉

if you knew ling personally, or spent lots of money with her regularly so that she had built up trust with you and therefore didn’t ask for a deposit because of that personal trust it would be an excellent example. If the business model of the bike shop was selling lots of Hope wheels cheap on finance by avoiding paying deposits it would also be an excellent example…

aracer – Member
codybrennan » No, its not intrinsically linked.
Well it kind of is, because ling has linked it and the finance pays for the car – she even admitted above that cancelling the finance automatically cancelled the car. Hence you’re looking at the wrong bit of law – it’s not distance selling, it’s finance selling.

It does cancel the car- it doesn’t cancel her incurred costs in procuring the car for the buyer. Ling makes it clear that this fee- perfectly legal- will be passed on.

Incidentally, most car dealers reserve the right to do the same thing when a customer orders a particular specification from new, its just that they rarely enforce it.

What? I think it’s a perfectly rational response to someone looking at Minis.

My eldest daughter’s boyfriend want a mini and I have questioned this decision for the same reasons. I’ll be showing him Lings post.
🙂

All hail Ling

For the record I shall be saying no more because this is now in the hands of a solicitor and I’ve been advised not to add anything else until further notice

If it’s a Mini Countryman, then I’ll be counter-suing.

Poopscoop = Duncan Bannatyne?

well I laughed.

No, its not intrinsically linked.

The finance and the car are co-dependent. The finance contract solely exists for payment for the provision of a car, the car (will) only exist as provision of goods subject to agreed payment (the finance contract).

I’m not saying that the OP can cancel whenever he likes and not have to pay.

If I was providing bespoke cabinets and the finance for them this is how I would go about it.

Customer order request.
Agree design.
Agree finance agreement.
Provide customer with finance agreement.
Provide customer with contractual terms and conditions (cancellation policy).
Get both signed.
Wait 14 days for finance cooling off period.
Purchase materials and start build.

If at that point the customer wanted to cancel it would be under the terms and conditions within the contract.

If they cancelled before I’m not out of pocket.

There’s a reason for 14 day cooling off periods. This thread is an example of why they exist.

Unless things have changed drastically with a factory build it can be changed right up to the day before build including cancelling it. Dealers are allocated build slots, changing or cancelling before it’s built has no cost impact on a dealer except loss of profit / income.

If it’s allocated and built then different

Big question is, has the car been built? If delivery is November I suspect not, usually about 7-10 days from factory to dealer.

Ling, has the car been built already?

Ling the Merciless

Interesting, I’d wondered that and was smelling something funny in ling’s post, but didn’t have any expert knowledge (have never bought a new car, never likely to). I note ling also appears to be quoting a cost for the car which bears no relation to what she’s paying for it.