Legal advice please – cancelling a new car dispute

giantalkali – Member

Other companies worked differently, hence the vast variations in rates

Yeah, my rates are cheap, hence the finance hurdles are high. Really, customers can be KBd for tiny stuff, a single miniscule late payment will do it.

Here’s a good example of a FAIL

– Ling

(I will say that my customer “Simon” aka the BIL… seemed, and was extremely credit-worthy, for the avoidance of doubt.)

Yet another data breach there Ling. He’s on his way down to Wigan today, he’s going to read through this whole thread, the poor b8stard. You’ve just put another nail in your consumer credit license coffin with that revelation.

Let’s be honest. If me and SC wanted to fraudulently obtain a car from ANY leasing company, then would’t he just put the proposal in himself, deliver the car to his own house and insure the car in his name only then give me the keys after adding me to the insurance??

Why would two potential fraudsters use different email addresses and state two delivery addresses on the **order form** and hope it gets through the system.

All this fronting bolluex is a very convenient diversion for Ling to start some sort of trial by social media.

I’ve coughed up for making my OP discreditable by not relaying the full facts because I just knew if I’d put the truth trial by STW would’ve been probably more judgemental than it already has been.

Ling, can you please tell me what your complaints process is?? TS have just rang me giving me advice on the what to do now and your all linging all dancing website doesn’t (conveniently) seem to have any sort of complaint procedure whatsoever…

You could always check the T&Cs on her website where it will doubtless set out the full legal position…

He’s on his way down to Wigan, he’s going to read through this whole thread

If only the Internet was ubiquitous… 😀

crosshair – Member
So you get the finance approved in theory, then get the order form signed so you can get a VRN to then enable the finance to be finalised. Is that right?

Finance is approved in practice, the credit line is approved and opened for an amount that represents the car OTR value, just need to get the car details (VIN, reg, etc). There is a time limit, maybe a 3-month window. The approval shows on the credit record of the customer.

Then, when the car arrives, or if already in UK, when a reg is allocated, the fin docs are raised with the car details/reg on, and sent to the customer for signing at a distance. Customer returns with all proofs. So distance selling rule applies. When the period expires, the car is delivered.

Hope that helps. 🙂

– Ling

Yeah, my rates are cheap, hence the finance hurdles are high.

Here’s a good example of a FAIL

😀

Ling, the only other thing still drawing me to this thread is that I want to believe the distinction you made between the car…. and the finance.

So you get the finance approved in theory, then get the order form signed so you can get a VRN to then enable the finance to be finalised. Is that right?

She’s admitted she didn’t order the car, if she did then she’s a muppet for ordering a car before having signed docs returned.

I morally think that you should 100% have the right to cover yourself in that grey zone between the order form being signed, the car being registered and the finance agreement commencing.

and legally should be offering a 14 day cooling off period as proper lease company’s do.

Nobody disputes that. If the car had arrived, been registered then we would have expected fair exit costs.

Read above.

Yet everyone is still maintaining that this is illegal?
Is it?

Yes, she has incurred no loss. She didn’t order the car and can’t enforce a contract she’s made up in cahoots with Gateshead Trading Standards.

So are the dealers who take a deposit at that point also acting illegally?

Nope, but they’ve got the business acumen to actually have a cooling off period built in and i’d bet 99.9% of them will refund within the cooling off period, or justify their expenses outside of it.

He’s on his way down to Wigan

If only the Internet was ubiquitous…

Thanks. Laughed so hard a bit of wee came out.

Is it too early to mention mediation..

geordiemick00 – Member

Ling, can you please tell me what your complaints process is?? TS have just rang me giving me advice on the what to do now and your all linging all dancing website doesn’t (conveniently) seem to have any sort of complaint procedure whatsoever…

Are Trading Standards aware that you are *NOT* my customer?

If a customer contacts me as I state in my T&Cs I will deal with them.

But YOU? How can I deal with you? It would be a data-breach of the first order (as you point out again and again), as my customer is Simon, not you.

You still seem to be giving the impression you are the customer.

WRONG.

– Ling

I think medication might be more useful for some.

I morally think that you should 100% have the right to cover yourself in that grey zone between the order form being signed, the car being registered and the finance agreement commencing.

Yet everyone is still maintaining that this is illegal?
Is it?
So are the dealers who take a deposit at that point also acting illegally?

One of the Lawyers posted the actual legislation somewhere earlier in the thread. If the lease companies who charge the deposit kept any portion of it following a cancellation within 14 days of the order then the customer would be able to go to small claims court and get it back. In contrast a company that doens’t have a deposit, but claims to charge costs would have to chase the customer for costs and would (almost certainly) lose.

This doesn’t apply to bespoke items, and cars with standard options are (almost certainly) not besoke items.

‘Acting illegally’ is a bit of a emotive way of describing it, mind you.

Thanks all- I had pretty much gathered all of that. I just can’t get my head around the grey zone.

So I want the car, I sign the order form (thanking my lucky stars I’ve chosen Lingscars.com who don’t now sting me for a deposit) which tells me I will be liable for Lings costs if I flounce.

Why does anyone deserve a cooling off period to sidestep these costs???? The car isn’t mine yet so a cooling off period for that can’t exist, the finance isn’t finalised yet so a cooling off period for that can’t exist.
How can this cooling off loophole apply??

Confused from Berkshire 🙂

Does that mean the only option is to take the deposit, wait 14 days, then order the car? I wonder if that would put off some potential buyers.

Thanks all- I had pretty much gathered all of that. I just can’t get my head around the grey zone.

So I want the car, I sign the order form (thanking my lucky stars I’ve chosen Lingscars.com who don’t now sting me for a deposit) which tells me I will be liable for Lings costs if I flounce.

Why does anyone deserve a cooling off period to sidestep these costs???? The car isn’t mine yet so a cooling off period for that can’t exist, the finance isn’t finalised yet so a cooling off period for that can’t exist.
How can this cooling off loophole apply??

Confused from Berkshire

It’s my argument that it doesn’t.

But there is a cooling of period on the car finance, as stated.

– Ling

How can I deal with you? It would be a data-breach of the first order (as you point out again and again), as my customer is Simon, not you

its not a data breach to provide a link to your complaints procedure which is what he asked for

Where is it exactly on your website

You would do anything for publicity so why the reluctance to have yet another link to your website?

scotroutes – Member

Does that mean the only option is to take the deposit, wait 14 days, then order the car? I wonder if that would put off some potential buyers.

Yes, it’s ridiculous.

In this very thread instance, the customer would be dancing up and down if I lost that Skoda order because I sat on the order form for 14 days before ordering the car.

I act on car order forms within seconds – and still lose some rare stock cars that get snapped up or sold elsewhere.

I tell them “I’ll order the car”, not “I’ll hang on and fart around 2 weeks and then order you the car, if it’s still available”

– Ling

It’s my argument that it doesn’t.

have you tested this argument in a court ?

Why does anyone deserve a cooling off period to sidestep these costs????

Beats me. I strongly suspect whoever wrote the distance selling laws had toasters & memory sticks in mind, rather than cars.

So after 64 pages there doesn’t seem to be clarity on the requirement for a “cooling off” period when leasing a car?

Why does anyone deserve a cooling off period to sidestep these costs????

Buyers regret

scotroutes – Member

Why does anyone deserve a cooling off period to sidestep these costs????

Buyers regret

Except the OP is NOT the buyer (or customer). Il ne regret rien.

– Ling

So why should a business owner fund people’s impulses? Especially when the warn the customer DO NOT SIGN IF YOU DONT WANT THE CAR????

Junkyard – lazarus

It’s my argument that it doesn’t.

have you tested this argument in a court ?

I tested it on the toilet and it sounded plausible.

I’ve never lost a small claims court case on this issue, maybe people don’t challenge it well enough, or maybe I am correct. I don’t interrogate the judge, afterwards. In fact, I’ve never turned up for one, I just get the “YOU WON!” paperwork.

– Ling

So after 64 pages there doesn’t seem to be clarity on the requirement for a “cooling off” period when leasing a car?

There is. The rules were posted on day one of this thread. There is a cooling off period of 14 days from the day of the order and you have to have that period in the T&Cs. The only debate is whether cars with standard options are bespoke or not and it seems highly likely they almost always are.

its not a data breach to provide a link to your complaints procedure which is what he asked for

Where is it exactly on your website

For all enquiries and issues, contact
Ling Valentine
LINGsCARS.com
World Headquarters
Vance Business Park
Gateshead
NE11 9NE
Tel: 0191 460 9444
Fax: 0870 486 1130
email: sales@LINGsCARS.com

I’ve never lost a small claims court case on this issue, maybe people don’t challenge it well enough, or maybe I am correct. I don’t interrogate the judge, afterwards. In fact, I’ve never turned up for one, I just get the “YOU WON!” paperwork.

– Ling

Pictures or it didn’t happen, as they say on the internet. 🙂

Is it? I thought that one got decided ages and pages ago as well. Who still thinks they are bespoke?

Having worked in this yes it’s annoying but you have to work within the parameters of the law.

We had customers cancel after the car was physical but if it was on finance there was very little you could do really and even if you could it was barely worth the hassle.

Cars arn’t bespoke, the factory spits them out at an astonishing rate. It’s just metal

As a business you just need to be professional and do the decent thing, we had customers dick us about but most were okay. Give them their deposit back and move on.

We even had to de-reg a couple of cars.

We made money and with the profit came risk.

Just be professional and above it.

Take the rough with the smooth and try not to be a dick.

(Also people can get caught up in the moment and the process and make poor decisions, the law is there to help people who make bad decisions, nobody’s perfect)

No, I don’t think it was decided when the pre-order form becomes an order.
Ling isn’t denying the right to stop the order.

Surely, until the finance is signed, everything is pre-order?
(Or rather pre-cooling off)

Trust is a big thing… take it away, Ya Jun.

– Ling

@ km79 – that is how to contact her – we can do that allready the questions is about the complaints procedure

I’ve never lost a small claims court case on this issue, maybe people don’t challenge it well enough, or maybe I am correct. I don’t interrogate the judge, afterwards. In fact, I’ve never turned up for one, I just get the “YOU WON!” paperwork.

I shall assume this claim is as reliable as the T & C were approved claim and any attempt to get any evidence from you will just result in insults

Has either party started legal proceedings?
Has Ling raised an invoice?
Ling’s FAIL post is funny.

How many pages/posts did the picolax/sudocreme cat/mint sauce key ring/any other of the forums greatest hits get?

Is this more than all of them combined?

(Trump and brexit threads excluded, on grounds that all they have going for them is their post count)

So why should a business owner fund people’s impulses?

I don’t think anyone is saying they should. We are still open to hearing the extent of that funding

crosshair – Member

No, I don’t think it was decided when the pre-order form becomes an order.
Ling isn’t denying the right to stop the order.

Surely, until the finance is signed, everything is pre-order?

No, in my view the car is ordered 100% with the car order form. As happened in this thread’s case. I order cars IMMEDIATELY. Within seconds.

The finance is just a method of paying for it. So that’s already in place and everything is fine…. until customers back out.

It happens very rarely. Often this is understandable, eg. a death or lost a job, or broken leg or some life changing disease (I am kind), but sometimes it’s to do with a character flaw, and in those cases I make a growling noise.

– Ling

I make a growling noise.

Yes, very good. Very strong etc 😀

Junkyard – lazarus
any attempt to get any evidence from you will just result in insults

Correct. Good boy.

– Ling

Now I understand why you test the argument on the toilet.

Ling Valentine
LINGsCARS.com
World Headquarters
Vance Business Park
Gateshead
NE11 9NE

I am so going to start adding this to my address too…