Learning to jump and move the bike confidently

Where I ride: Swinley Forest at the mo

What I’m like: Above an average MTBer in terms of speed down fast sections. Berms ok. Certainly not great though.

What I want to be able to do:

1: Whip the bike and position it to land say to the left/right aiming down a bank or berm straight after a jump.
2: Jump further and higher with confidence.
3: Manual

I just don’t know where to start with improving my jumping. I even followed someone down a trail and tried to look at what they are doing and I still can’t work it out. I’ve watched videos and read stuff on here and none of it seems to do much for me. I just don’t get how to whip. Should I just pad up and go practice and practice till I get it?

Most frustrating thing for me is watching people go into jumps much slower than me and get about twice the pop off a lip as me. Obviously they are more skilled and have better technique. I pump just before the jump but never get as much height. I wonder if I pull up naturally…should I not be pulling up at all?

Manuals… I genuinely worry it’s my bike holding me back. Are larger full suss bikes harder to manual?

I have a Stumpjumper FSR older bike but got it in large (had to as I’m 6ft2 lanky) and feel it fits well.

Any advice welcome.

Thanks

small chuckable hardtails are easier to jump with, but some people learn on DH bikes, so its not impossible.

I spend a bit of time with my gf’s son and his mates at the local jump spot, and just follow them down, which seems to work for me.

The alternative, as always, is coaching. Tom Dowie at Chicksands Bike Park is pretty damn good if you are in that sort of area.

Coaching.

But you definitely shouldn’t be pulling up on jumps, from what I understand.

I just don’t get how to whip.

Wait until the bike is in the air, move bike and body to desired shape, straighten out, land. 😀
The first point is pretty critical, if you try to initiate before you are in the air, you won’t be able to reverse it to land.
Practise and coaching is probably the answer though, it’s very easy to get the wrong idea and bin it in a pretty big way.

But you definitely shouldn’t be pulling up on jumps, from what I understand.
I disagree with this. Generally I always pull up a certain amount depending on the shape of the lip and the landing, length of jump, speed etc.

if you try to initiate before you are in the air, you won’t be able to reverse it to land.
I disagree with this too. For example, watch a slow-mo clip of someone doing a 360.

Should I just pad up and go practice and practice till I get it?

yes, but you won’t just suddenly ‘get it’, you’ll get more confident, and more confidence = more relaxed and more relaxed = more airtime and more airtime = more confidence. its a positive feedback loop thing.
well, until you crash. Then you just need the desire to carry on learning.

If you are focussing on speed then you shouldn’t pull up on jumps as this will slow you down (increased air resistance).

If you’re focussing on getting maximum floaty air then definitely pull up as you reach the lip of the jump, this will slow you down however will get you much higher.

Try to pull up on the bars, then push back with your feet on the pedals and twist your handlebars forwards to bring the rear end up. This can be practiced like a bunny hop at slow speed on the flat. It’ll start to feel more natural on the trail after a while as you gain confidence.

I disagree with this too. For example, watch a slow-mo clip of someone doing a 360.

Of course. It goes without saying that if you are only trying to go move in one direction, i.e a spin or a flip, you’ll need to initiate before take off to get momentum. But for a whip or similar, you need to get back to straight and if you initiate before you take off you are just throwing yourself off the bike, there’s no way to get back to straight again.

1. Don’t learn by Internet. Do or do not.

2. Visit Jedi 😀

“Try to pull up on the bars, then push back with your feet on the pedals and twist your handlebars forwards to bring the rear end up. “

I read things like this and I’m like…wha?
(but thanks Colin9 for trying!)

What does “push back with your feet” actually mean? In what direction is back with respect to the bike? Back as in behind you?
Also “twist the handlebars forwards to bring the rear end up”. Erm…not getting it.

Can I just clarify something… are you guys that CAN whip doing anything different BEFORE getting air on a jump, compared to a “normal” jump? Like line choice, angle of the bike into the jump, steering to a side or laying it over just before the lip? Or are you dead straight as normal and do everything to do with the whip “in the air”. If the later, this at least means I can focus on only trying different stuff in the air only lol.

Can I just clarify something… are you guys that CAN whip doing anything different BEFORE getting air on a jump, compared to a “normal” jump? Like line choice, angle of the bike into the jump, steering to a side or laying it over just before the lip?

No, that’s the point I’m trying to make, if you start moving the bike in one direction before you take off, it will keep going the direction in the air (remembers Newtons laws?) and you will not land the right way up, facing the right way. There may be exceptions to this for really advanced stuff, but by the time you get to that, you won’t be asking questions about it anymore. The good thing about this is that you can start small and work up, little bar turns etc.
Edit: Really proper moto whips do start before take-off before someone mentions that, but they also land at least a bit sideways when done on an MTB not a MX. MX bikes have an engine which allows you to put in extra energy in the air to move the bike, MTBs don’t.
In the meantime, ignore this and learn to x-up, table top, get a hand off the bars and so on and for all of that, everything happens in the air.

I would suggest you do not try to learn from the internet or comments on here. No matter how well intentioned they are subjective and not always correct.

Go and try stuff out for yourself and get some tuition.

Ive had Jedi and Tom Dowie lessons, they gave me the basics and the confidence to continue to practice and learn myself.

Go to jump gully, see someone on his own who is quite handy and ask them ? Follow them down and get them to explain what they are doing ?
Oh, and practice a lot…
Oh, and don’t ask me… 🙂

Pulling up on the lip of a jump does not equal more/bigger air like some suggest.

Push into the jump and use the rebound momentum from that, push with your feet into the pedals.

Get some proper skills tuition.

Jedi … end of.

^^^ this. x5

😉

I can’t believe I’m reading a thread about jumping on bikes with arguments about Newtons law.

Do you think this kid went to see Jedi?

Step away from the keyboard and go ride your bloody bike.

P.S. Top Tip- ignore everything written on this thread by everyone including myself.

Sometimes the only way to learnt the right way to do something is to first find all the wrong ways…! Go to jump gully and spend at least half a day just going down it not just three or four runs – slowly at first, then build the speed up – and just try different shifts in body weight, where and how you compress on the takeoff, how much you pull up, etc. Accept that you might get it wrong and possibly come off, but as long as you don’t go pelting down there on your first run it shouldn’t be too bad!

People can try and describe what you should be doing and how it should feel all they like, but it’s very subjective. There isn’t really a quick fix (Disclaimer: I have not been to Jedi 😉 ) – pretty much everyone you see who can jump confidently has spent countless hours getting that way.

pretty much everyone you see who can jump confidently has spent countless hours getting that way.

This is definitely true.

see Jedi,

ride bike lots,

see Jedi again,

ride bike lots more….

repeat as necessary..

I used to be able to jump OK years ago, through lack of riding lost or forgot the skill & muscle memory. I went to see Jedi, I can jump again. I’ve been riding a lot more this year but I’ll go back and see him again later this summer if I can.

Had some coaching recently on manuals and jumps. Couldn’t get it at all at first cos kept trying to pull the bike up. It was explained to me as transfer bike to back by flicking up toes and at same time move arms as if pushing away a basket ball to bounce on the floor in front of you. I had to practice the feet thing first then the basketball thing and then bring them both together. It worked. There was also an article in one of the mags recently with Chris ball talking you through the different stages of the jumps, he said definitely not to pull the bike up but more to do with weighting and un weighting at crucial stages.

I find it tragic that people think you need to see a coach to learn how to manual. For many reasons.

People can try and describe what you should be doing and how it should feel all they like, but it’s very subjective. There isn’t really a quick fix (Disclaimer: I have not been to Jedi ) – pretty much everyone you see who can jump confidently has spent countless hours getting that way.

Disclaimer, I have recently been to see jedi, I would never have attempted to clear a 6ft table top before – I rode with wheels planted firmly on the floor, by the end of the day I had cleared the 6ft table top several times and without stacking it or crapping myself.

Some things really are worth investing in.

Everyone is different and not everyone finds manuals etc come naturally to them. Not everyone learnt jumps as a kid either.

Trust me, even if you know how to manual, coaching by certain people can be a total revelation and transforms everything. It’s not a quick fix though, you do have to work at it.

Think of it like learning to drive from friends/family with bad habits. Learning from a good quality pro teacher can make you a great driver, compared to being a sloppy driver or failing tests often.

But anyway, Jedi’s coaching isn’t about being able to manual 😉

I find it tragic that people think you need to see a coach to learn how to manual. For many reasons.

Why?

The technique is somewhat counter-intuitive and to my mind usually described in the wrong terms, i.e. push vs pull on the handlebars when it is really a shifting of your centre of gravity in relation to that of the bike’s. Your CofG has to be over or slightly behind the rear axle in order for the front end of the bike to rise up, if it’s in front then no matter how hard you push or pull on the bars the front wheel will drop back pretty quickly. So while people describe the action as “pushing on the handlebars” as if that is the main action that isn’t really what’s happening.

All you need to learn how to manual is a bike and some ground. Nothing else. All those words you just typed mean nothing. You don’t need a forum and you don’t need someone to hold your hand.

I was just after tips and advice, perhaps on what worked for other people when learning.

I used to try and pull up, all what happened was I would turn the bars 45 degrees to the right which made landings interesting. Larger jumps I just keep my weight back enough to keep the front wheel up untill the back wheel leaves the ramp and let my momentum do the rest.
Smaller jumps I pop off, basically bunny hop off the lip.
You do this by pushing down compressing the suspension then using the rebound to hop off.

Think of your suspension like your knees, if you wanted to do a standing jump you could not jump with out bending your knees first .

And still some can go for years trying on your own with no help and not be able to manual.

Not that being able to manual is key anyway.

So you spend several sessions trying to “clean and jerk” the front end off the ground, all the while fighting your own body weight? Not the best way to learn other than learning that’s not the way to do it.

If you managed it fine first session then good on you but not everyone can/does and having someone point out what you are doing wrong in a friendly manner is no bad thing. Plus it’s their money and if they want to take lessons who are you or I to tell them not to.

What are Jedi’s contact details?

FRONT PAGE

@idiotdogbrain thanks

I’m with sharkattack on this one.

sharkattack – Member
I find it tragic that people think you need to see a coach to learn how to manual. For many reasons.

Yup, apparently if you want to learn to do anything on this forum you need coached 🙄 I would hazard a guess that 99.99% of the best guys you see getting air have never been coached on it. Ride with and talk to mates – yes, coach – no.

Nobody seems to be willing to invest time instead of money – at least it helps people like Jedi make a living

Your best bet is simply to spend a lot of time sessioning the jump gulley – it’s mostly about practice. And copy better jumpers whilst you’re there. You’re lucky to have such a handy learning spot, use it! If you see Jedi he’ll be able to get you moving the bike in the air if you’re ready for it but you’ll still need to do loads of practice afterwards to consolidate your learning.

10,000 hours! 😉

1. you need to put serious time in a car park practising manuals and bunny hops, even turns if you really want to sort out berms too.

2. once you’ve got bunny hops really, really well sorted, ie 1ft+, no spud hops, do the same but really slowly off of a take off, job done.

I pop by the gulley once or twice a week if you ever want any pointers.

2. once you’ve got bunny hops really, really well sorted, ie 1ft+, no spud hops, do the same but really slowly off of a take off, job done.

bunny hopping and jumping have nothing to do with each other, you don’t bunny hop of the lip of a jump

Fack I must of been jumping wrong for the past 15 years 😀

(I’m a life longer BMXer who can comfortably boost/trick/style 6ft+ high, 15ft+ jumps, clearly don’t have a clue)

But in all seriousness the same motions in a good bunny hop are the same as jumping off of a take off, though the timing and the speed of the motions are different.

The beginning motions are pretty much common to manualling and pumping too, again, timed differently at different speeds.

It’s blatantly obvious when someone bunny hops off a jump – it looks horrid. So either are aren’t actually doing it, or……..

i disagree with the motions being the same – you scoop up the back of the bike with your feet on a take off?