My issue is quoting/linking sites that are essentially the writers opinions.

Ok then LA has been found guilty of doping offences and stripped of his TdF titles and can no longer compete

Everything else is an opinion on this fact.

A bit like using wiki in a dissertation creditted as a “source”.

Its not wikipedia is not opinion it is closer to fact than opinion and broadly accurate on all things

In June 2012, the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) charged Armstrong with having used illicit performance enhancing drugs,[7] based on blood samples from 2009 and 2010 as well as the testimony of other cyclists. Armstrong challenged this in federal court, claiming that his right to due process was violated and that USADA did not have jurisdiction over the case; Armstrong’s lawsuit was dismissed on August 20, 2012.[8] On August 23, 2012, Armstrong announced that he would not be fighting the USADA’s charges.[9][10][11] Later that day the USADA confirmed in a statement[12] that Armstrong was banned for life and would be disqualified from any and all competitive results obtained on and subsequent to August 1, 1998, including forfeiture of any medals, titles, winnings, finishes, points and prizes. Armstrong has questioned whether USADA has the legal authority to enforce its ruling. The UCI have not yet enforced any ban, but have requested that USADA provide a reasoned decision explaining the action taken

or example

Those who’ve read the book, did you get the US version or the edited UK version? Wondering what they had to change.

I suppose when your ‘superman’ image is built on cheating, its a bit more difficult to admit, the ‘domestiques feel that they can relieve themselves of the burden, LA reminds me of some cult leader– just keep shouting louder

The LA saga is still giving, Sunday times journalist Paul Kimmage is being sued by the UCI for his comments about UCI overlords Verbruggen and McQuaid. Found this from Ashenden on the NYvelocity site

“Dear Paul,

I was shocked to read today that you have received a subpoena related to defamation proceedings brought against you by Pat McQuaid, Hein Verbruggen and the UCI itself.

It is not clear to me what the basis for the proceeding is; to the best of my knowledge it has not been publicly disclosed. Regardless, I find it deeply disturbing that, amidst the current turmoil surrounding cycling, you have been singled out.

I do not believe that court is the appropriate remedy in the current circumstances. For example, I don’t expect that WADA will sue him after Pat McQuaid claimed that WADA had launched a ‘15-year long political campaign against cycling’. Although his comments certainly do not reflect well on WADA’s integrity, to their credit WADA have shown admirable restraint.

I sincerely hope that after a period of reflection the UCI will adopt a similar attitude regarding your comments too.

Nonetheless, today I have had a change of heart. Earlier this year one of the UCI’s Passport cases that I had worked on as a member of their expert panel had to be dropped after we had received the rider’s explanation and us group of three experts could not reach a consensus decision. At the time, I chose not to invoice the UCI for the hours and hours which I had spent working on that case since October 2011. However, your subpoena gave me pause to reflect, and I have decided to invoice the UCI a token amount of 260 Euro (two hours at our expert rate) for my contributions on that case. I have simultaneously deposited that amount into your defense fund.

I sincerely hope you are not required to pay a fine. However in case you are, I hope it is some solace that to some degree you would be merely handing the UCI’s own money back to them.

Please keep up your good work – The Times They Are a-Changin’.

Best wishes,

Mike Ashenden”

Ha! I like Ashenden but he does seem to have a big gob! Read the entire Hamilton book yesterday-i found it compelling. What an utterly ridiculous world pro cycling is.

Hamilton’s book is indeed compelling.

It’s just too joined up to be made up

glitchy

hello?

Reading the Hamilton book at the moment and finding it very interesting, it does fill in some of the blanks about how things are done and why.

Anyone else reading the Hamilton / Coyle book?

Would have been reading it now. Had it on pre-order, then discovered that the UK version has been re-written, so will wait until I can get my mitts on a US version.

I hope to be able to handle the way its written, given the abuse of our language the Americans seem so intent upon.

EDIT:
Oh !, just read this earlier post:
Those who’ve read the book, did you get the US version or the edited UK version? Wondering what they had to change.

You can find me now standing in the corner, wearing the pointy hat with a ‘D’ written on it.
🙁

it does fill in some of the blanks about how things are done and why.

Indeed – and including explaining some of the “failures”, as well as the succeses – the LA not enterring / pulling out of a race / TH bombing, after a previous demolition job win… (but unseen to the public / race world, also after a blood “donation”)

ETA – I’m reading the UK version. TBH, not sure where the editiorial differences are… I believe it was down to the more stringent libel laws, so presumably some of the content referring to named individuals has been removed or anonymised…?

down to the more stringent libel laws

Thats what I read, somewhere.

the differences between the two books are listed here:

The Differences Between the US and UK versions of The Secret Race

Really nothing that we already didnt know tbh and not enough to stop buying the UK book.

Not sure if this has been posted but Kimmage seems to be getting quite a bit of support:
http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/lawsuit-against-journalist-turns-into-referendum-on-uci

link

USADA file to UCI this week…?

Wonder if they’ll publish at the same time?

Millar did a good interview yesterday after the World Road Race Championships.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/9559856/David-Millar-says-Lance-Armstrong-affair-the-best-thing-to-happen-to-modern-day-cycling.html

I’ve read the Hamilton/Coyle book (via Amazon Kindle), it’s very good. Certainly all the cross-references add up.

Listened to the Hamilton audio book and kept the file on the pc its very good. Being rather new to it all I find the lengths they went to cheat amazing

In an interview the french sports minister has said that she thinks LA is guilty and there is no reason why the UCI should not agree with the usada .

Reading the Hamilton book now – so far it’s credible enough to hush the cycnic in me.

In L’Equipe today Travis Tygart revealed that they never received the testimonies from the FBI.

That was the first time I’d heard that.

I guess they wanted the witnesses to think that they had access to it or at some point would be given it. Very interesting that they had to start again from scratch.

The puerto trial starts Jan next year, i presume that Hamilton and others will feature. Perhaps with a bit of luck Fuentes will name a few names and not just the cyclists.

Death Threats ? – WTF…!

and here

Tygart also says that LA’s reputation will look 30x worse than it does with the revelations to date – FLIPPIN HECK 😯

ETA

Tygart said, adding that he has valid documents from French Anti-Doping authorities that confirm Armstrong’s six positive doping tests for the banned blood booster EPO on the 1999 Tour, revealed by L’Equipe shortly after the 2005 Tour.

“Yes, absolutely. It’s major proof, confirmation of his guilt,” Tygart said. “But it’s the ensemble of the proof and the testimonies that we have gathered which constitutes the proof of his cheating.”

Shit – does that mean they’ve re-tested the 1999 samples…? The Ashenden interview weights the 1999 results as indicative, part of testing research… Tygarts statement sounds a lot more unequivocal

And LA may be called to testify under oath for the Bruyneel hearing

it was probably Hora.

I don’t think the info supplied to UCI will be public for a while (after the bruyneel hearing).
But it will be interesting if UCI suddenly shuts up after getting it.

MrSmith, you made me laugh there 🙂

Looks like LA will be going to prison….

Tygart has used the “perjury” word…

it’s all going to get much much worse for someone.

Yep, lots of reputations being set up for a fall be it USADA, UCI, LA, whoever.

Bruyneel and the others under extreme pressure not to proceed with a hearing…???

It seems to me like Tygart has got LA royally screwed with the perjury position… If LA is called to give evidence under oath her either has to :-

– Lie under oath, in order to persist with his previous line
– Admit that he previously lied under oath, and face the wrap for that
– Show that everyone else has been lying under oath, and that the lab data is wrong

I think the plan was that bruynell & the docs opted for arbitration, LA has a word with his friends in congress (again) the whole case gets closed and everyone walks away back to their jobs.. Only it didn’t this time (unlike the novitsky case) and now theyve all actually got to face their accusers. Notice they havent been quick to cmment anywhere, and after hamilton’s book they must be crapping themselves.

I was initially under the impression the LA papers would become public the same time they are released to the UCI but I can’t find the damn link to that now…

I’ve only just noticed that the UCI are only suing Kimmage for 8,000 Swiss francs!
I think it’s funny that they value their reputations at only that.

I’ve only just noticed that the UCI are only suing Kimmage for 8,000 Swiss francs!

That does seem a small amount, I wonder if that’s somehow tied into the process of Swiss law, and the openness of evidence and proceedings.

I’ve only just noticed that the UCI are only suing Kimmage for 8,000 Swiss francs!
I think it’s funny that they value their reputations at only that.

You regularly see law suits for 1p or similar, everything isn’t always about money

8000 swiss francs EACH plus an insistence that he pays out for full page ads in a number of European newspapers (probably a lot more than 8000 francs?). And of course if costs get awarded against him, it gets much bigger.

I think they’ve underestimated people’s feelings here, as evidenced by the success so far of the Kimmage defence fund:

http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/09/paul-kimmage-defense-fund/

USADA announces release date for the report
By the 15 october

UCI president Pat McQuaid admitted it was likely to be a case of rubberstamping Usada’s decision though.
“Unless the Usada’s decision and case file give serious reasons to do otherwise, the UCI has no intention to appeal to Court of Arbitration for Sport or not to recognise the Usada’s sanctions on Lance Armstrong,” he said.
“The UCI assumes that the decision and file will also detail the sanction the USADA may wish to enforce upon the riders who have provided testimony in exchange for reduced sanctions.”

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19737213

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19686432

So your saying the culture of cheats could have been stopped by the UCI. Do you think you were ‘bullied’ into cheating/taking drugs Mr Millar? If you were principled you could have QUIT the team that you were in or changed careers.

Oct 15th: http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/09/news/usada-points-to-october-15-as-new-goal-to-submit-armstrong-case-file_240019

Oct 15th USADA hand the file over the UCI.
Oct 16th UCI selectively leak evidence to friendly journos
Oct 17th USADA respond by putting it all in the public domain
Oct 18th LA goes on Oprah and says he’s so very, very sorry

Or…..

Oct 14th: USADA announce they are delaying providing the evidence to UCI until the three remaining cases are concluded.

Could the UCI stop doping? No. Could the UCI have done a huge amount more to reduce it? Yes, definitely and if some of the allegations turn out to be true, they actually helped perpetuate it.

Millar’s accepted his own blame. What he’s said is that many/most people are fallible and many they will succumb to doping if the culture around them says it’s the norm and necessary to win.

So your saying the culture of cheats could have been stopped by the UCI.

So you are saying they did everything possible to stop it then but were just incompetent rather than complicit?
Like we all have know for years that LA cheated we have all known for years that the UCI was not doing all it could
I expect you to realise this in about 2023 ish.

Sometimes you really do say some silly and ill conceived stuff like an upset ranting teenager.
i dont know why as you are actually quite bright.

Not to mention that DM never said “the culture of cheats could have been stopped by the UCI”