Labour is to blame for austerity according to….

I wish that Corbyn and the puerile student bell ends in momentum spent as much time on fighting the Tories as they did slagging off Blair, Brown and Tom Watson

Does Corbyn spend much time slagging any of them off?

Do you need reminding of the voting record of Labour V Tories in the indicative votes?

Bet you love Tom Watson’s made up twitter poll too?

outofbreath

Member

Austerity wasn’t caused by the crash, though.

All the more reason why Labour shouldn’t post tweets taking the blame.

When did that happen?

The gold sale cost us about £2bn spread over 3 years (critics tend to “overlook” that the assets bought with the funds from the sale also appreciated). And yet people still wail about it today and happily ignore other more recent bills, like the cost of corporation tax cuts brought in by Osborne (during “austerity” remember) which will cost £6bn per year by 2020. Or the £1.5bn spent on no-deal brexit planning so far. Or the £1bn bribe to the DUP. And so on… The cost to fix the probation service after the disastrous privatisation will certainly run higher, even after the previous half billion quid handout to CRCs

So what it is about this particular £2bn loss under a Labour government 20 years ago that draws so much more attention than ongoing, larger losses under a Tory one, I wonder? It’s a mystery.

There are stats on the national statistics site about how much they’ve got back etc. I’ve never crunched all the numbers, but I think the above is broadly correct. RBS is close to being back to even too.

The main problem during the whole financial crisis was liquidity, all the institutions (banks) were worried about refinancing debt and so wouldn’t lend to each other, which caused the whole system to grind to a halt. The object of concern, collateralized debt obligation (CDO) that had become suddenly toxic were untouchable because they potentially contained millions of sub prime mortgages. The irony being that the more the financial system panicked about them and slowed the economy, the more likely the sub prime debt would default. I read somewhere that the post 2008 long term default rate, of CDOs, was incredibly low; it was the fear of the unknown which collapsed the system. They were so complex, that you couldn’t work out the real risk of any one CDO, hence they all became like radioactive waste overnight.

Good primer on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collateralized_debt_obligation

Because it’s an easily repeatable story that plays to a simplistic narrative.

Sixth-form, common room level placard waver

I don’t know if you’ve noticed but the Labour Party has bigger fish to fry than slagging off his 3 times election-winning predecessors. If it could be bothered. Winning elections? Pfft!

But no… let’s slag them off, voice our support of Iran, and ignore the enormous elephant in the room

The key thing was Cameron and Osbourne had promised to maintain the same level of spending on public services in 2008; so there was cross party support at the time. Only after Nov 2008, did it become a ‘Labour’ issue.

But no… let’s slag them off, voice our support of Iran, and ignore the enormous elephant in the room

Support of Iran?

Wow.

Lets go headlong into War then – so Brexit won’t matter…

We’re polling at 19% and sinking. What should we do?

Let’s slag off the only members of our party who’ve actually achieved anything!

Brilliant! I’ll get straight on it! The next election is in the bag!

Right… that’s that sorted. If anyone needs me, I’ll be on the allotment….

This made me laugh…

LibDems by Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr

We’re polling at 19% and sinking. What should we do?

The polling is all over the shop. It’s likely to move in and out of favour all of the time and depending on who does the polling.

A few weeks before the Brexit party reared they’re ugly heads – Labour had pulled a decent lead.

And I suspect under a G.E matters would move back to stuff like the NHS and Policing which would swing the vote back.

Are you a member? (not as in a cock for clarity)

Be a member of the present Labour Party? are you serious? People are leaving in droves. I’d rather join the local Morris dancing troupe. They’ve more political credibility

I would join them actually, but so far they’ve singularly failed to release a press release slagging off the previous occupant of the club treasurers position for making the sticks too short and thus causing the great Cotswold Morris Ring debacle of 2007. As soon as they start addressing that great injustice then I’m in!

When did that happen?

In the OP:

Blair favoured deregulation of the banking industry – leading to one of the worst crashes in modern history. While spending on public services was higher, his legacy will ultimately be the austerity that followed his failure to stand up to big finance.

They’re claiming the crash was due to Labour’s deregulation, the crash lead to austerity.

The gold sale cost us about £2bn spread over 3 years

<Sigh> You obviously predicted a massive terrorist atrocity and invested heavily in gold at the time GB was selling? If you didn’t how the hell could GB? It only cost us £2bn in hindsight, it wasn’t known at the time.

corporation tax cuts brought in by Osborne (during “austerity” remember) which will cost £6bn per year by 2020.

It’s a global market and countries all over the world are cutting corporation taxes. Loathe it or hate it if you don’t have competitive tax rates companies move to places that do. In the industrial estate I work on three low profile medium sized firms have moved their head quarters abroad (Belgium I think) specifically because they get a better tax deal abroad. That’s three firms that now pay zero UK corporation tax. You don’t need to be a massive company to shift your HQ abroad. Move 3 or four employees and minibus a few directors to a few board meetings in the new country. It really is that simple. Setting tax in general is about finding the sweet spot on the laffer curve.

Can’t really see how you can say it’s cost 6bn because you don’t know how much would have been raised if it hadn’t happened. Could just as easily have saved £6bn if failing to do it had driven £12bn worth of corporation tax away, we’ll never know.

It’s pathetic! Which is why the Labour Party are presently polling at 19%. Not a problem Blair ever had to deal with. The treacherous electable bastard

I think it’s charming that you speak so approvingly of a man with so much blood on his hands.

I think it’s charming that you speak so approvingly of a man with so much blood on his hands.

You can argue Labour were responsible for the Uk’s involvement in Iraq but they were *not* responsible for the 2007/2008 global Crash. It’s not about approval or disapproval, that’s just what happened.

You can argue Labour were responsible for the Uk’s involvement in Iraq but they were *not* responsible for the 2007/2008 global Crash. It’s not about approval or disapproval, that’s just what happened

I mostly agree, and think the Brown/ Darling response was the right one. Nevertheless, Labour encouraged the mood of deregulation.

As for Blair, I often wonder what gymnastics his supporters perform to justify lying to parliament in order to launch an illegal war. Presumably a few hundred thousand dead brown people is ok because of the minimum wage.

So by your logic, anyone who thinks Blair and Brown were infinitely preferable to another 13 years of Tory hegemony is a warmongering racist?

How’s your revision going for your A Levels? Getting close now.

We could well be living in a socialist utopia by the time you get your results

I mostly agree, and think the Brown/ Darling response was the right one. Nevertheless, Labour encouraged the mood of deregulation.

As for Blair, I often wonder what gymnastics his supporters perform to justify lying to parliament in order to launch an illegal war. Presumably a few hundred thousand dead brown people is ok because of the minimum wage.

Well there will be an election before long and you can continue to punish them for the war and for the mood of deregulation they encouraged. That’s the nice thing about democracy **** up and you can be out of government for 11 years, perhaps even 16.

It’s interesting that binners characterises Corbyn’s supporters as juvenile while the man himself is characterized as senile. Ageism is prejudice, and says much.

Like what..?

Well there will be an election before long and you can continue to punish them for the war and for the mood of deregulation they encouraged

I’ve no idea what you’re talking about: I voted Labour in the last election and will do so next time, because whatever you think of Corbyn, Iraq was absolutely nothing to do with him.

Finger on the pulse of the burning issues of 2019…

Like what..?

Amongst other things, that you’re a blowhard who chooses to discriminate on the basis of age, because you’re unable to make an argument without referring to people’s innate personal characteristics. I strongly suspect that if you were doing the same on the basis of skin colour, you’d be shown the door.

Finger on the pulse of the burning issues of 2019…

You’d know all about those in your middle class enclave. Now, don’t you have people to discriminate against?

I often wonder what gymnastics his supporters perform to justify lying to parliament in order to launch an illegal war.

I voted Labour in the last election and will do so next time, because whatever you think of Corbyn, Iraq was absolutely nothing to do with him.

I think you’ve answered your own question. 😀

I think you’ve answered your own question. 😀

You think that it’s a stretch to not blame Corbyn for Iraq? The man who was prominently protesting against it? Err, ok.

You’d know all about those in your middle class enclave

Sick burn is sick.

He’s also not even partly responsible for the inherent problems caused by the Treaty of Versailles or the assignation of archduke Franz Ferdinand

He’s getting my vote!

“Thank you for your vote, comrade”

the assignation of archduke Frank Ferdinand

Secret appointments? I must’ve missed that bit in history lessons.

You think that it’s a stretch to not blame Corbyn for Iraq? The man who was prominently protesting against it? Err, ok.

I think the gymnastics you’re performing to continue to vote Labour are pretty clear. You’re shifting the responsibility from the party to one individual within the party as though the cabinet, MPs & party had zero responsibility for the decision and then convincing yourself that because the leader’s changed the entire party no longer has any responsibility for Iraq. You’re probably also telling yourself that people were mislead in spite of Robin Cook and Claire Short telling everyone *exactly* how it was in plain language. Somehow I think you don’t go through those gymnastics when a party you don’t like changes leader!

But we digress. This thread is about Labour’s tweet about being to blame for the 2007/2008 Global Crash. (Which I’d guess you’d agree with up to a point, hence “Labour encouraged the mood of deregulation”.) I’m saying whether that’s true or not it’s probably not something Labour should be shouting from the roof tops when an election could happen literally any time in the next 2 years.

Labour’s tweet

Momentum, shirley. Totally different organisations, apparently.

I think the gymnastics you’re performing to continue to vote Labour are pretty clear. You’re shifting the responsibility from the party to one individual within the party as though the cabinet, MPs & party had zero responsibility for the decision and then convincing yourself that because the leader’s changed the entire party no longer has any responsibility for Iraq.

So, in summary, you’re telling us that Corbyn bears responsibility for Iraq because he’s leader of the Labour party. If that’s what you wish to believe, crack on.

Momentum, shirley. Totally different organisations, apparently.

Totally. 😀

I think you’ll find that concentrating the parties efforts into attacking its own predecessors for decisions it made 15 years ago is the most pressing issue of the day, as there’s not much else going on, and a surefire hit that’s will resonate with the voters

Finger on the pulse, comrade. Finger on the pulse…

In no way is it a totally transparent deflection technique to desperately try to stop people thinking that you’re so staggeringly breathtakingly shit!

Anyway… IRAQ

Finger on the pulse, comrade….

In no way is it a totally transparent deflection technique to desperately try to stop people thinking that your staggeringly shit!

More abuse… it’s a shame that you’re so unpleasant.

Momentum, shirley. Totally different organisations, apparently.

If you’re struggling, think of them as a sort of Labour equivalent to the ERG.

So, in summary, you’re telling us that Corbyn bears responsibility for Iraq because he’s leader of the Labour party. If that’s what you wish to believe, crack on.

Nope, if I was telling you that I’d have written it rather than writing something different. I’m saying that your post is a good example of the kind of mental gymnastics you mentioned. You’ve convinced yourself that Labour stopped being responsible for Iraq because they changed leader.

Trump was opposed to the Iraq War. The Republican party is still responsible for it even though Bush is gone and Trump has taken over.

Anyway I think we’ve explored this enough. It’s miles off topic so I’ll let you have the last word.

Anyway… IRAQ

😀

If taking the blame for the 2007/2008 global crash and austerity isn’t a surefire vote winner, bringing up Iraq ought to hoover up votes like a Dyson on steroids…

You’ve convinced yourself that Labour stopped being responsible for Iraq because they changed leader.

No, I said that Corbyn was not responsible. Please don’t create strawmen to support your flimsy argument.

And still the obsession with Corbyn, Blair, Brown et al continues. It reminds me of the take that vs east 17 teenage culture wars. Madness!

Although to be honest I’m a big fan of John McDonnell. He’s quite the comedian in real life, and an extremely sincere, open minded, pragmatic and adept politician. It’s a shame he doesn’t feel his health is up to the labour leadership.

You might need to remember that the Tories we’re constantly pushing for even more deregulation of financial services at the time. And which country started the rot?
The real issue in the UK is the cowtowing to the City and their short term view on what might, or might not be, best for the country as a whole.