Road bike speeds on gravel - Dirty Reiver

Looking at the event website the terrain is listed as fast rolling on small or smooth gravel typical of forest access roads so pretty easy to do the speeds you mention on the flat and dh section (maintaining them for 200km is another matter entirely, but that’s down to rider fitness). 

It’s very fast rolling gravel. It’s a big distance and a lot of climbing, but none of the climbs are steep either so it’s possible to keep the speed up.

I completed the 200 yesterday at a more leisurely 18 km/h average. Hats off to those smashing the course in 7 hours!

I've done it a few times although not this year. I did an Audax instead. It was a fast day. Light winds, cool but not cold.

It's proper gravel roads on the whole. You could drive them. Its rough in places but with the right setup you can keep good momentum. Still fat harder than the road. I'm reasonably fit and got round in 8 hours last time. It's not like you set off for a steady ride though. I had trained, tapered and had a nutrition strategy - running high carb drinks etc.

The guys putting in the fastest times are just good. A group often forms near the front where people work together which really helps push the speed up. But these are people who would be riding hilly road rides at 20mph solo. Winning TTs and other events, being at the sharp end of national events and perhaps even international.

The standard at the Gralloch is insane. But its a qualifier for the worlds. I average 27kph round that. I was with the front group (V40s) over the first climb (as I'm a good climber) but then lost touch and spent too long solo. The elites are truly elite - world tour level. Even in the V40s there were a few ex pros.

Well that's slightly reassuring, I have always known how significant the difference between different gravel surfaces can be.

I checked actually and my fastest gravel ride was 23.5km/h on what passes for 'good' gravel around me (still lots of dried out puddles and tractor ruts) so I guess pushing hard on smoother gravel might close the gap a wee bit more (and yeah, being significantly fitter... 🙄).

I had trained, tapered and had a nutrition strategy - running high carb drinks etc.

Curious what your training was in the weeks leading up?

I've got an opportunity for a fairly big 'endurance block' next Thurs-Sat, then taking a week off before spending the remaining 4 weeks focusing on sweetspot efforts on climbs. Then a week's taper before G.O.D 

Posted by: jonba

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The elites are truly elite - world tour level. Even in the V40s there were a few ex pros.

GCN had a video recently showing the speeds that you'd have to maintain, on gravel, to even be in the front third at Unbound, never mind contesting the win. It was mind-blowing.

A mate in Australia said the same about a local gravel ride / race thing that he'd done. The pros were finished before he'd even got to the second feed stop, they were averaging high 20's kph.

In a sort of related note, I saw Ed Clancy rode the Mallorca 312 (road) yesterday at an average of 33kph for the entire 312km ! 

I did it a few years ago and found it a bit faster than expected. Had been up for a recce beforehand and only managed 11mph average but on the day I did over 13mph. The correct route largely avoids any of the rougher, more technical stuff there is up there. 

Posted by: crazy-legs

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In a sort of related note, I saw Ed Clancy rode the Mallorca 312 (road) yesterday at an average of 33kph for the entire 312km ! 

But that's what is so scary about the gravel speeds, Lachlan Morton won Unbound (320km of gravel) at 35km/h! 

I was working on the UCI CiCLE Classic race today - a road race but with numerous gravel sectors and a lot of lumps. No massive hills but it's just constant up and down.

The winner averaged 42kph over 180km, including gravel. It was super dry as well, clouds of dust being kicked up. Made it very sketchy to ride such loose conditions.

It's not exactly singletrack, it's just forest roads. If you are a fast roadie it's just pedalling, there's no particular technical challenge which would bring the average speed down it's just distance. See also the "gravel world championship" it's not really representative of what most of us ride on gravel bikes, i.e. old school XC with bits of tarmac in between. 

Posted by: rocketdog

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it's not really representative of what most of us ride on gravel bikes, i.e. old school XC with bits of tarmac in between. 

Yeah, just watched a couple of videos, it's a very different ballgame from what I'm used to! 😂

Agreed. Gravel racing I've done we've been doing through and off. So a road ride allmost.

Training wise, the usual. Plenty of volume and then some harder sessions mid week. A few "test" rides at near race pace using the same setup and food.
Scaled it back the weekend before and did a social ride, very little in the week before.

Lachlan Morton, at one point, was tipped to be a grand tour winner. He's amongst the best there is, not just another pro rider.

Maybe they were just keen to get it over with?

200km round Kielder's fire roads must be deathly dull 😉

Posted by: jonba

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Lachlan Morton, at one point, was tipped to be a grand tour winner. He's amongst the best there is, not just another pro rider.

He's racing the Three Peaks CX again this year!

Last time he did it he was third having never ridden much of it before so now he knows what it's like, I'd be surprised if he didn't win!

GCN filmed the sharp end this year

Posted by: boxelder

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GCN filmed the sharp end this year

Average speed of 30kph (!!) over a 200km hilly gravel course, and still you get the impression he's unhappy with his performance and could have done a little better. I suppose that's what it takes to be racer...

I did a gravel sportive thing at the weekend (one of the Glorious Gravel events) which was very good, most enjoyable.

You know that stereotype that people who do Sportives are all nodders, who needs route arrows and feed stations...?

Yeah well that didn't hold true here. There were some really very quick people including a couple of guys (teammates, identical kit obviously just using the event as a training spin) who passed me like I was standing still.

They just sounded fast. You know when you see a road race and there's the whooshing of deep section carbon wheels? Well that, but on gravel. 

I did the 130km route on my xc hardtail, only saw one or two hardtails in the mix.  

Averaged 23.1 kmph, was missing the extra hand positions by the end.  If I did it again I would add my TT bars to the flat bar.

The descents were not too steep, so you could go flat out and carry speed into the next climb. 

It was great fun mixing fast group riding with skiddy descents. 

I was out taking photos all day (Roots and Rain).  There were around 8 or 9 hardtails in total that I noticed.  Last year and the year before there were quite a few E-MTBs, I didn't notice very many if any this year. 

Well given my luck with punctures this year I'm not sure if drafting will be much of an option at the Grand Old Dukes, unless I did run the MTB which isn't out of the question, although GOD doesn't allow aero bars...

Will be interesting to see what's possible on 'race' day. I've got four reasonably big but slow dats back-to-back in the tank now so can focus on shorter harder stuff for the next four weeks, I fancy trying some race paced rides just to see what I can sustain over shorter distances.

I still can't comprehend even e.g. 23km/h over 200km though, could be a useful eye-opener!

Well given my luck with punctures this year I'm not sure if drafting will be much of an option at the Grand Old Dukes, unless I did run the MTB which isn't out of the question, although GOD doesn't allow aero bars...

What tyres, pressures you running - and tubeless?

What tyres, pressures you running - and tubeless?

40mm Terreno Dry TNT with inserts, Stan's sealant, trying various pressures between 35-38psi.

In truth I know what the issue is to some degree, between my weight and the terrain/surfaces/speeds I'm trying to ride, a 40mm tyre just can't cut it. 

I posted a winge on another thread about Stan's sealant not sealing punctures, but one of those was clearly just a rim tape issue, and the other two have been sidewall damage (a thorn and a 5mm rip) which I think is difficult for any sealant.

I was enjoying running tubes again at the weekend until I went past a recently trimmed Hawthorne verge 🙄

New sealant, higher pressures and more cautious line choices until I can afford a bike with clearance for 50mm tyres...

Posted by: 13thfloormonk

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New sealant, higher pressures and more cautious line choices until I can afford a bike with clearance for 50mm tyres...

Could you try 650b wheels? Might give you the clearance you need to run 50 - 55mm tyres? Cheaper than buying a whole new bike...  😉

Posted by: crazy-legs

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Could you try 650b wheels?

No, my lack of forethought has caught up with me, I've got a custom built frame with rim brakes. The brakes themselves don't limit the tyre size, but I only had the frame built to take up to 45mm tyre on the rear, and the only aftermarket forks I could find only take 40mm.

I should stick a 45mm in the back but a silly sort of aversion to 'bigger tyre on the rear' stopped me doing so.

Anyone considering testing their own gravel speeds, my club, Twickenham CC are running the inaugural Surry Grumble on Sunday June 8th. This is the off-road partner to our Surry Rumble road sportive. Entry is on the BC Website and a link to entry is provided here:

https://twickenhamcc.co.uk/surrey-grumble/

I plan to ride it and am debating road bike or gravel, depending on whether someone in the club needs a bike!

There's a Lachlan Morton video here of his recent participation in The Hills Gravel Race (Italy). It turned into an absolute mudbath - 180km of Tuscan white roads turned into sludge!

Male winner did 6.14 which is an average of 18mph / 29kph
Female winner did 7.26 so an average of 15mph / 24kph

Both incredibly impressive times in those conditions.

If I could finish the 200km at 20kmph I'd be very happy.

I think my average speed for the 130 in 2019 (meant to do the 200 but broke a spoke!) was about 24kmh or something. For the most part, as others have said, it's really smooth gravel with long straights and descents thrown in. 

Posted by: TiRed

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Anyone considering testing their own gravel speeds, my club, Twickenham CC are running the inaugural Surry Grumble on Sunday June 8th. This is the off-road partner to our Surry Rumble road sportive. Entry is on the BC Website and a link to entry is provided here:

https://twickenhamcc.co.uk/surrey-grumble/

I plan to ride it and am debating road bike or gravel, depending on whether someone in the club needs a bike!

Looks like a fun route, I just signed up. Doing that on a road bike would be brave though?

Fun ride this morning, 24.5km/h over 75km on a rolling local route with the whole gamut of surfaces. Didn't realise I had a tailwind until I turned back into it on way home! 😖 

I committed to trying a fast one so had two bottles of Torq and 1 litre of Skratch in the hydration pack.

Spent a LOT of time in upper sweetspot and two or three efforts in what I would call threshold (by heart rate at least). A couple of decent recoveries on descents although they were often loose or rough so still out of the saddle and working a bit.

Clearly not sustainable over a longer ride so I need to get more disciplined and keep the harder efforts in reserve for the climbs.

Also wider tyres would clearly have been a benefit, had to back off or spend time weaving and dodging to keep on a smoother line a lot. Can't do anything about that for Grand Old Dukes so will at least put inserts back in.

Next week, a similar route but trying to keep in zone a bit better. Happily just an excuse to smash around my local trails 😎

Just been looking at the times for Gralloch yesterday (partly because about 1/3rd of the people I follow on Strava seemed to be there!). Looked rapid all round right through the categories but the winning Elite times were 3.08 (men) and 3.44 (women).

111km, 1800m climbing.

So that's 22mph (men) and 18.5mph (women) average speed for the winners.

I normally reckon on 100km in 4hrs on the road for me. That's riding on my own on normal roads, I can do it quicker in a race obviously. But it shows just how quick that pace was.

As an aside, the fastest time in the Fred Whitton last week was 5.45, average 19.5mph. By a certain Ed Clancy who has gold medals and stripy jumpers for riding very fast....

Posted by: legometeorology

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If I could finish the 200km at 20kmph I'd be very happy.

And talking of Ed Clancy earlier, saw he got the fastest time this yearat the Fred Whitton, 180km in 5hrs 45mins, I make that 31kph average….

Oops, crazy-legs beat me to it on the Clancy fact.

Yes was also looking at people's Gralloch times!

Lots of very fast times but what reassured me slightly was a couple of videos from the faster guys riding in quite well drilled looking groups, and also people I suspect I'm reasonably close to fitness wise who also posted 23-24km/h averages.

Lots of punctures though, seems like tubeless tech still isn't where it needs to be for gravel, don't know if everyone simply needs wider tyres, sidewalls need to be made tougher, or if people are just being unrealistic with their tyre pressures...

I was at the Gralloch. Managed 26ish kph to get round in just over 4 hours.

I came in about 60th in the V40s. I didn't see the front group when I got dropped on the first climb. I averaged just under 320W for the first 20min. I hit 500+ just before I went out the back! There are some fairly good riders as it is a world champs qualifiers.

Certainly at the front there were bunches and they formed on some of the flatter sections. This can be faster but adds significant risk and challenges. The gravel there is brutal - sharp hardcore. There's an element of luck to it. Especially when descending at 40-50kph. Groups make it harder to see what you are riding over as well. If you are following a wheel you have no idea where the bigger rocks are coming from.

Its an awesome event. The racing is brilliant but even if that's not your thing, the course is great. Scenic, rolling and challenging. Punctures less of an issue if you knock it back a bit on the descents ;).

I concur with Jonba.  <27 kph here, and spent 2 hours drafting a group of 10-15 riders, though not on descents.  The gravel was rough, mix of cat 3 & cat 4.  Hot, dusty,,,brutal..  Lots of punctures but I was lucky.  My mate was running 3rd in his age cat but a puncture pushed him him to 4th.