Kit car owners – talk me out of buying one…..

Now that I’ve cleared and tidied the bike/cave garage I fancy filling the floor space with a car.
I had considered another TVR S Series but don’t have quite enough room for that…….
But there is enough room for a 7 style kit car.
Been looking at Tiger Avon’s and older Westfield’s.
Any reason I shouldn’t spend my hard earned on a 2 seater gokart?

I built a kit car many moons ago, great fun but I was in my early twenties.
Now I’ve grown up an MX5 would be my choice.

What about this. BMW Z3 base but still good fun and reliable. You get the basic body panels which are basically bolt on replacements but you spend the time doing the finishing work like: frenching in the rear lights or not; cutting hole in the bonnet scoop or not; side exhausts or not etc Basically all the finishing stuff to make it your car.

Or you could make an offer on mine 🙂

“What about this. BMW Z3 base”…..

No no no no No!
Utterly hideous!
And it was a pretty car…

I built a kit car many moons ago, great fun but I was in my early twenties.
Now I’ve grown up an MX5 would be my choice.

If I had the time and the space I would love to build a kit car.

Way better than owning an MX5

Dunno if they are still going but there used to be company called dax that did some really nice 7 style kits..

https://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/209891/dax_rush.html

You can use less crazy engines than that one though, such as 1.6 Ford or vauxhall

Guy I used to sub from has one of those Dax motors.

Was crazy. His high flying brother had an M3 so he decided to put together a Dax for squilsh of the price. I remember he has to get pumping the accelerator pedal to stop the engine stalling.

If you have the space and tools I’d be looking at buying a fresh kit from Caterham and building it yourself rather than getting one already done. They hold their values extremely well, have a massive fanbase to call on if you have any issues, the SVA test is pretty much a guaranteed pass if you’ve built it correctly and you have a myriad of options as to how fast/comfy/lairy you want to make it. There are people who have owned a few of them as they enjoy the building more than the driving. They buy the kit, build it up over a winter then drive it a few times. If they time it right then some have even managed to come out of it cost-neutral! You can spot them by the low mileage ones appearing for sale around this time of year.

It’s on my bucket list of things to do, even if it has to be an electric one. Driven a few at experience days and they always make a better impression than the supercars.

If I had a bit of space to do it, I’d most definitely be getting hold of a rotten MX5 and a MEV Exocet kit. Looks like a total hoot that.

Ive got a caterham 7, I bought it in 2000/2001, I used to use it for trackdays. It was bought it second hand and therefore already built, but I’ve practically rebuilt it over the last 20 years and loads of track miles.

Mine is quite track oriented ( V stiff suspension, full roll cage, no heater) ,and fairly heavily modified and as such its a pain in the arse on the road, but on the right road (smooth and twisty – like a racetrack) , with the right traffic (ie none), and the right weather (ie warm and sunny) its brilliant, but those conditions very rarely come together. its bloody awful on the motorway.

I think I paid 15k for it back then, and its probably worth around the same now.

Funnily enough I was just changing the gearbox oil when I saw this thread. I rarely use it these days, but wouldnt sell it as it costs nothing to keep it locked up in the garage.

I would strongly advise going for something very well known , ideally a caterham 7 because they hold their value like nothing else and the built quality is consistently good when compared to the others ,mainly because there is so little fabrication/modification involved in building a caterham . A westfield is a decent second choice, but even then the built standards can be patchy and they wont hold their value like a caterham . All the other 7 clones I wouldnt bother with.

As per the reccomendation above, get a kit from caterham and build yourself.

just to add – dont be tempted to go for bare aluminium body work, get one thats painted. It looks great at first, but quickly goes tatty unless you’re prepared to put in hours keeping it in good nick.

I say this as the owner of a bare aluminium car, who cant be arsed to put the hours in keeping it nice.

A westfield is a decent second choice, but even then the built standards can be patchy and they wont hold their value like a caterham

Yes, they can be good. I had a home built one (by someone else) with a x-flow engine and it wasn’t great but sold it and got a factory built SE with a Zetec engine which was very nice, proper finished dash, leather seats etc,. Used it as my only car for 2 years and covered 20,000 miles in it. Just as reliable as any other new car of the time (1997)
The level of restraint to stop pissing around, sliding around roundabouts etc. is very, very hard though…

I would love a Caterham or similar, I’ve a couple of friends who had them over the years.

A warning – my old business partner managed to put one backwards through a fence in Rivelin valley, not great for him or the kid passenger. Take care.

I bought ageing Westfield SE with a 4AGE engine (1.6 MR2). 500kg wet and 140bhp @ 7400rpm.

Could have done with a LSD but was good fun as it was and plenty quick enough with your arse a few mm off the floor.

It did always need something doing to it, never major but always time consuming and a pain to sort.

When my son came along I stopped driving it, just didn’t feel safe and a few instances put me off. Mainly that others vehicles just don’t see you.

I don’t miss it one bit. I do miss my VX220 turbo that I had before though (and then wish I had bought an Exige before they got expensive).

Been there, done that. 🙂

Car ended up mouldering in the driveway because I bought it for the wrong reasons, ie as a substitute for taking the missus out a motorbike. She hated the way it accelerated hard and went round corners like a go kart while making lovely noises. It’s not as if it was particularly fast, it just felt that way.

I’d sooner ride a bike than a car, so it got sold.

Left to myself, I’d get a Morgan 3 wheeler, maybe even the electric one…

Check out the GBS zero. Lots of options including a single donor mx5 version. The full kit with a Zetec is the way to go if you’ve got the money. They seem to be a pretty progressive bunch and the design and quality has come on a lot in the last few years.

If you like the look of them keep an eye out for the regular open days.

The MEV Exocet is probably the easiest build available. You just lift the body off an mx5, drop on the spaceframe and away you go.

Unfortunately, they’re butt ugly. I’ve seen them racing on track next to Ariel Atoms and there was surprisingly little between them given the huge price difference.

Thanks all.
It will be a prebuilt one as I don’t have to room to build one.
Caterham is out of my budget, but Westfield, Tiger and GBS are on the list.
Visited the GBS factory a few years back and got taken out in the demonstrator – really nice cars.

I’d do a Cobra. Dax or AK.

Buying built, if you can afford it a Caterham, if not a well built Westfield is pretty good, the other 7 ish things I would not bother with. The best value and brilliant handling is the Sylva Striker or if it newer the Raw Striker, again needs to be a well built one. If we had another, have owned all of the above, it would be Striker, though some Caterhams are great but damn expensive.
The thing that occupies that space in the garage now is a Dellow, must be getting old as provides equal smiles per mile.

Even a well built hood is a good car.

I’d love a gtm libra

I’ve had two, Westfield years ago, sold when I got married, now a Stuart Taylor 7 look-alike, built both. The current one has a Fireblade engine, so revs to 12000, which is fun for an hour or so, but not for long drives.
I enjoyed the build, but if you’re buying built you’ll be looking for something well made. Ask for documents, like wiring diagrams, cooling details etc. You don’t want to spend your time de-bugging someone else’s mistakes.

Have a 2003 Westfield sei 1.8 Zetec, the wife says I have to sell, not used in the last 5 years, only to the MOT and back.

Great fun, but got back into cycling so never have the time to use it, plus stored at work so never there when the weather is good.

Build quality is great, have build pictures.

When I raced I nearly bought a Seven; ended up with a race-spec, but road legal Elise instead.

The thing that put me off Seven style cars was the lack of any crash protection – even with a roll cage they don’t look like they’d be good in a crash (your right arm sticks out the side of the car!)

I’d consider something like a Fisher Fury, but as with any of these minimalist cars, you’ve got to be pretty dedicated or have loads of free time to get the most from them. Otherwise they’ll just sit in your garage running the battery down (like my Elise eventually did, after 8 years of ownership).

JP

I’ve had a couple. They take money, time, money, commitment, money and discipline to build. Little jobs can take 10x as long for the want of a specialist tool. Donor parts can be hard to get and/or expensive. Kit car firms go bust alot, making bespoke parts expensive / unobtainable. Both of mine (Mini Marcos and a Quantum saloon) had full doors with wind up windows. Door seals and window mechanisms are a pain in the hoop to align. Roof headlining and carpets aren’t fun either. Westfield / Caterham 7 style roadsters are far simpler but way less practical. They don’t have anything like the safety features of a modern production car either. Insurance is cheap (for the performance) as you have to rebuild them yourself! They don’t rust. The fun of whizzing around with your backside inches off the ground wears off on any dual carriageway or other road shared with trucks. Did I mention money? Better off with an MX5.

I’ve always had a soft spot for Lotus 7’s since when I was a kid and got to sit in one at the Birmingham car show. Don’t have the money for one though, maybe when I’m retired in 24 years! 😭

Just Googled that MEV Exocet, I think it is lovely! Not ugly but I can definitely see how it’s looks could be interpreted that way (I also like the look of Nicolai bikes and Alfa SZ’s).

I really like the idea of taking an older car and fitting an electric motor and batteries, I can see that being a big thing in the future.

Always liked the idea of building one but the cost puts me off – so many nice production cars you can buy for less. Buying a built kit is generally cheaper though. I think you’d have to build for the love unless you have particular performance targets. Ended up Jap turbo tuning instead as I like to tinker, these days I like to build bikes instead – cheaper, easier and you can be done in a day!

I had a Sylva back in the day, and would definitely recomend you have a look at those. I also had a Banham Sprite, which looked great but nowhere near as good to drive as the Sylva.

salsa

Have a 2003 Westfield sei 1.8 Zetec, the wife says I have to sell, not used in the last 5 years, only to the MOT and back.

Great fun, but got back into cycling so never have the time to use it, plus stored at work so never there when the weather is good.

Build quality is great, have build pictures.

@salsa PM me details – could be interested.

What about an early Elise? Far far safer to drive on the road, a lot of fun, and buy one that needs a bit of TLC and i suspect that with some minor tarting up and an bit of love, you’ll have a fairly depreciation resistant purchase?

(I was passenger in an Elise that got hit by a LWB transit van, bang, straight into the passenger door at about 25 mpg (we were doing about 40), we bounced off, spun, knocked down about 35 yards of railing, and i walked away without a scratch. If that had been a Caterham, urgh, i dread think, the Elise with it’s chunky sills that forms the chassis on the outside of the passenger cell protected me well! Interestingly, the Van drivers insurance paided out, the owner of the elise bought the wreck back, and completely rebuilt it (chassis was ok, but needed clams and rear s/frame) and it now lives with him over in Peth, Australia, making it a very rare car over there!

I’d buy an Elise, I’ve spent ages looking at them but never been in one. I’ve got a mate with an S1 but his is always broken and it’s currently waiting for a head gasket.

My other mate has a Westfield with a hyabusa engine and it’s the fastest thing I’ve ever been in by far. But, a short drive in it made me realise I wouldn’t by anything that extreme for myself. It’s got no windscreen, no reverse gear and your elbows are outside the car. It’s a nightmare as a road car.

Also his first service was well over a grand because every single nut and bolt on the whole chassis was loose and one of the mud guards had sliced a groove in the front tyre. If you buy something already built make sure you know what you’re looking for or have it checked out before you take all your friends and family for a spin.

I’d like to test drive a Toyota engined S2 at some point. I’d rather enjoy the drive than have the fastest thing on wheels and spend every weekend fixing it.

@salsa pls can you also pm me details. I’ve had 3 westfields and fancy getting another….

I’ve got an Elise and with hardtop and A/C they can make a good compromise of fun and (almost) practicality. A Toyota S2 or S3 are pretty reliable or a S1 that has had a head gasket upgrade or Honda conversion would be good. Plenty of opportunity for modifying rather than building a kit car

had a sylva striker for 10 years, one of the better clones if you can’t afford a caterham. i would put it on a par with a westfield. used it on the roads a fair bit when i first got it but then i just became a track car. probably did over 60 trackdays in it.

it had an R1 engine in it as coming from honda type R’s i liked high revving motors. over a lap there was nothing in it between that car and a mates caterham R400, he would edge away on the straights and i would gain it back on the brakes and through the corners.

sold it a couple of years ago and keep thinking back to wanting another, problem is they are bottomless pits when it comes to spending lots of money on small upgrades. if i was going to get another think it would be a non road registered race car with all the right stuff already on it.

Thanks for the replies – greatly appreciated.
Budget doesn’t stretch to Caterham or Elise money.

Westfield, Sylva/Raw, GBS and Tiger are on the list.
If I had £20k it would probably be a factory built GBS, but again budget is less than half that.

whats your intended use? bike engined is hard to beat for performance per cost if out and out performance is what you want. plus you get a sequential box with them. not the easiest to live with on the road though, 6th gear at 60 was about 6k rpm with mine so noisy and slow speed gear changes could be very clunky so around town was shit, on the open road though it was brilliant, screaming engine and clutchless upshifts made a very enjoyable drive.
if i got another i think i would be torn between another bike engine or a 250bhp duratec but the cost of building the duratec would be a fortune plus would need to buy a sequential box for it, unless i could find a car with it already done.

I built a Dax Cobra and swore I would never build another kit car.

I then wrote off my 5L TVR Chimera at Castle Coombe on a trackday.

So I built a Westfield Megabusa and it was a joy to build, I really enjoyed it. I ended up turbo charging the engine in the end so was 480KG and 340bhp, it went well. Like someone else on the thread it was set up for the track, no windscreen and a full cage etc and suspension setup for track. So I rarely used it on the road. I had a loads of fun in it and met some really good friends.

I think these days if I was looking for something fun to drive on the road it would be an Elise, MX5 or S2000 etc. Some thing that has some small amount of weather protection and at least space for an over night bag 🙂

Oh, I just remembered the RSR Escort.

Definitely not what you want but worth mentioning. They’re not really designed to be an easy build, it’s more for experienced racing car builders and they’re used as oval racers, time attack, and general track weapons. I’m not sure if there’s a road legal one yet.

If I had the money and the knowledge to build one this is 100% where I’d do. No need to go wild on running gear. I’d settle for a 2 litre Duratec and RX8 gearbox.

Their website has gone down but there’s a lot of pictures here- Facey

Thanks all.
Intended use would mainly be B road blasts and the occasional track day.
Engine wise I’m not averse to a well set up Pinto – only about 15kg heavier than the Zetec and with twin 45’s and a better cam should push 150bhp.

Hi salsa, PM me some details too. I could be keen.

I think I paid 15k for it back then, and its probably worth around the same now.

Yeah but how much money have you spent on it? 😉

My father-in-law had one (a Westfield) and he spent an inordinate amount of money on it. His was track-day focussed too – geared specifically for the Harewood Hill Climb and powered by a race-tuned Ford Puma 1.7l engine (the Yamaha-designed one). I think the top speed was only something like 95mph but it got to it in some silly time like about 4 seconds.