Kids that don't care

My son got a Nintendo DS at 4. He used it until he was 8 and it still works now (In the loft now).

He got a ipod touch at 8 and used that till he was 10. He sold that as it was in perfect condition when he finished with it.

We got him a ipad mini when he was 10 and it is used all the time to watch you tube, talk to his pals etc etc. He also has an iphone which he uses all the time but treats like gold dust.

He is now 12yrs old, loves his gadgets but is willing to combine birthday & christams money to get what he wants and will gladly go without to ensure he gets a particular item.

His 8yr sister got her ipad mini when she was 6. She isn’t so materialistic and uses her ipad to watch bbci player and talk to her best friend every morning on facetime. She again would be absolutely distraught if she lost/broke her ipad.

I also have and ipad and my wife has an iphone. We are in bed with apple wether we like it or not.

I don’t like them sitting glued to the devices as much as the next person but they are both sporty kids, they both do well at school, they are both well mannered and they both know the value of items they deem special.

I don’t think there is a right or wrong to having technology in our kids lives. I would have no hesitation to remove the devices if they started to display signs of not valuing these items but they really do care for them so I am happy for them to remain.

Personally I would suggest to the op that this isn’t just the ipad that’s causing the sons attitudes (My son has some major attitude as well). Maybe you need to reel in the purse strings a bit (A few months) and let him learn that things don’t come easily. I have seen my son wait 6mths for something knowing that it will be worth the wait. Its a valuable lesson which others have mentioned here

Well I have just read this review and it looks like a good option for kiddies – you can tweak setting to (for example) set the amount of educational work they need to do on the tablet before ‘unlocking’ games etc.

And Amazon throw in a 2 year replacement guarantee if it gets broken by little Timmy having a tantrum.

It will always be trouble with kids having a sense of entitlement, it’s also a natural part of growing up and pushing boundaries. They are still getting used to not being the centre of the universe, which since they were born are used to people that will sacrifice their own time and possessions in priority to a child, so they naturally have an imbalanced view of the world.

We have this debate with ours all the time, thankfully it’s not about them breaking stuff. Thankfully after a selfish period where they just couldn’t understand they can’t have everything they wanted (be it the food they want, time on computers, the computers themeselves etc) they now seem to understand that for everything they have, we worked for it.

They both got iPad mini’s for Christmas when they were 10. They both live on them playing Minecraft, CBBC app and using iMessages alot. Both of them were given cases for them which must be on at all time, and both agreed that if they are lost or broken, they pay us back for them and they can fund the next one. So if they break them, they will be an iPad down and a few hundred quid down.

Time on them is limited too, and although they will always kick off when not allowed and tell us how unfair life is, they will respect it and not use them. All electronics and screens are banned before 9 am, and after 8PM. On weekends they have 2.5 hours each to use on the devices, and it can’t take priority over family stuff. Outside of that they manage their time, but still they choose to ask when to use it.

Thankfully as we are completely open with them they know how much effort goes into to getting them this stuff, and the life they lead. And they do aside from the usual pre teens strops seem to get it. It does mean we’ve sat explaining to 10 year olds how mortgages work, how tax gets paid, why we pay tax so they can get things – and it does seem to work. They now know that we work hard for all of us, and how much they have, so no longer think if I buy something they should be entitled to something.

Pocket money is all done on rewards (tidy room, feed the cat, makes us cups of tea, do housework, get good grades etc) and will loose money for bad behavior – some weeks they end up owing us money if they have been bad. It sounds unfair but they contributed to how it would work. Once they have this money they can do whatever they want with it (assuming its age appropriate etc), as they earned it. I might claim they are wasting money, but its theirs.

We have got to the point that if we are spending money, 9 times out of 10 they want to spend it on time with us. A day out, or swimming, or bike ride with a lunch out is something they get excited about and that’s the biggest thing they want, rather than gadgets. It’s been a battle though.

We’ve taken the view that children are selfish by their very nature, they are born with an army of slaves who do all they can to keep them alive and happy – and it’s our job to try to teach them to appreciate what they have, be less selfish or at the very least to be able to pretend that they are not selfish. If they are selfish, and grow up with a sense of entitlement and not understand you get out what you put in, then that’s our fault too.

Lol cos paper is just like a tablet.. right.. wonder if the author of that strip actually has kids?

Lol cos paper is just like a tablet.. right..

He didn’t say it was.

He said it was a tool for creativity and learning, which I agree with.

Fundamentally I don’t believe that reading, learning, creating and exploring is somehow inherently more valuable when it is done on dead trees instead of pixels.

wonder if the author of that strip actually has kids?

Yes I believe the Penny Arcade authors, Jerry Holkins (aka “Tycho”) and Mike Krahulik (aka “Gabe”), both have kids.
(They are also the cofounders of Child’s Play, a kid’s charity that has raised over $33 million since it started in 2003).

Which is of course all anybody ever does with a tablet.

Which is of course all anybody ever does with a tablet.

People draw dick doodles on paper.

That doesn’t invalidate all paper as a means of learning.

A) continue with the bad atmosphere in the house, but make him realise that he needs to look after stuff and understand the effort required to earn a pound

B) life is too short. Give him a cuddle and move on …

Right now it’s is A…

There is a middle way. You can explain how upset you are that the iPad got broken, that you work hard for the money used to pay for it, and that you expect him to pay for the home insurance excess (if it is covered) from his own money, and that if he doesn’t have any money he’d better start earning it. And then give him a cuddle and move on…
Life is short as you say and accidents do happen.

genuinely surprised no one has proposed the threat of ‘no pudding’ yet..

He said it was a tool for creativity and learning, which I agree with.

Yes but it’s ALSO an incredibly addictive and demanding platform for peddling masses of shite at kids, which can steal a huge amount of time for little benefit. Quite unlike paper.

… which can steal a huge amount of time for little benefit. Quite unlike paper.

Have you never read the DaVinci Code?

Yes but it’s ALSO an incredibly addictive and demanding platform for peddling masses of shite at kids, which can steal a huge amount of time for little benefit. Quite unlike paper.

That’s not an inherent fault of the device, it’s poor management of the device by the parents.

If you want your kids to draw pictures you give them some paper and water-soluble crayons, not give them the keys to the shed and tell them to help themselves to paint.

That’s like saying heroin isn’t addictive unless you inject it.

Parental management is exactly what’s being discussed here. And limiting screen time is one several ways we do it in our house. There are no hard and fast time limits though as NOTHING is more infuriating than being told to stop something when you’re caught up in it.

Quite unlike paper.

Paper comes pre-installed with Hangman, Noughts & Crosses, Dots & Boxes, Battleship and a hundred other silly distracting games that got me through school before the invention of smartphones & tablets.

And some of those games taught me things.

Just like some of the silly distracting games on smartphones and tablets can.

That’s not an inherent fault of the device, it’s poor management of the device by the parents.

Exactly – content not medium.

Books aren’t inherently bad just because Twilight bad literature exists.

Tablets aren’t inherently bad just because there are less edifying ways to use them.

Even TV isn’t inherently bad or dumb.

Parental management is exactly what’s being discussed here. And limiting screen time is one several ways we do it in our house.

And per the comic strip, I think that blanket limits on “screen time” makes as much sense in the modern world as limiting paper time did in our age.

If I limit anything it’s the content, not the medium.

That’s like saying heroin isn’t addictive unless you inject it.

No it’s not, unless your parents are hooking you up with the local dealer.

The parent provides tablet for their kids and they preload it with age-appropriate apps that aren’t going to “peddle masses of shite.” No?

Maybe we’re at cross purposes and I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying? If they’ve got unrestriced app store access then yes, they might end up running up a second mortgage on Candybirdsville micropayments. If they haven’t got unfettered access to any old crap they happen to download, then the scenario you describe just doesn’t exist.

Otherwise, this is just the same argument my generation of kids had with computers and our parent’s generation had with television. Or rock and roll. Or if you go back far enough, books.

Blaming the medium is just failing to take responsibility.

I think that blanket limits on “screen time” makes as much sense in the modern world as limiting paper time did in our age.

Agreed about a ‘blanket’ limit being wrong, though I think it’s reasonable to impose a time limit if they’re doing one activity to the exclusion of everything else. That’s not particularly healthy, whether it’s playing Candy Crush, watching Frozen, or playing football.

Case in point, a mate of mine has a genuine concern that his daughter is reading too much. She’s hoovering up like a book a day and a) he can’t keep up and b) is worried about the development of her social skills.

That’s not what I’m doing. I AM taking responsibility. One of the ways of doing so is limiting scren time, which is what that cartoon is trashing as ridiculous.

As you say, gaming is fun, it’s fun when you’re 6 too, so there are games on the tablet. Some are educational, some are just silly. Even the silly ones teach some stuff to the really young kids.

However they will play them endlessly if you let them. At least, ours will. So we manage it, in a number of ways. One of which is calling time on it when we think they’ve gone past the level of fun diversion and are just unable to tear themselves away.

I think it’s reasonable to impose a time limit if they’re doing one activity to the exclusion of everything else. That’s not particularly healthy, whether it’s playing Candy Crush, watching Frozen, or playing football.

Absolutely – I meant that phrase to work both ways – it might make sense to impose a limit if they are being all-consumed by an activity (regardless of the medium).

Though to be honest we probably all got a bit obsessive at some point in our young lives (bikes, airfix, D&D, books, computers, bad rock, etc).

Sure.

I don’t recall ever having “computer time” but then, I didn’t have “Lego time” or “playing out” time either.

However they will play them endlessly if you let them. At least, ours will. So we manage it, in a number of ways. One of which is calling time on it when we think they’ve gone past the level of fun diversion and are just unable to tear themselves away

I’m not a parent, but if it were me I’d be providing attractive alternatives rather than saying “right, time’s up!”

if it were me I’d be providing attractive alternatives rather than saying “right, time’s up!”

Me too.. that’s why they haven’t played on the tablet for about a month… and probably didn’t for a month before that either..

Though to be honest we probably all got a bit obsessive at some point in our young lives

Yeah. Again, so long as it’s not all-consuming, I’m not wholly convinced that that’s inherently a bad thing either. I mean, I was obsessed with computers as a kid; fast forward thirty years and I’ve turned it into a life-long, badly-paying career.

Lego might be a better example. I was obsessive, but it gave me the skills to follow instructions, to use my imagination to create, to problem-solve, to have a desire to find out how things worked. Could my parents have pre-empted that? They were probably just happy that I was quiet and not trying to take the television apart.

Me too.. that’s why they haven’t played on the tablet for about a month… and probably didn’t for a month before that either..

Is it the reason? Why do you feel the need to restrict their tablet time then, when it seems that they’re self-moderating? That makes no sense.

When they play on it (or other electronic devices) they will do so for hours. However, with a bit of discouragement they won’t do so again for a while.

If we left it on charge in full view, and used it ourselves a lot, they’d ask for it more, and if they got into the habit of playing on it a lot they’d become little techno junkies craving their fix. At 6 and 3 they are still young and suggestible enough to be manipulated like this. Because they have such a full and rich play environment at home they easily find other self-led games to play and things to do, so with a little gentle management they forget the tablet for a while. It is clear from observation that these specific two kids get far more from real life make-believe and creative play than they do from tablet games, at this stage in life.

Also, we’ve pretty much burned through every completely free (ie not a front for in-game payments) age-appropriate game on the play store. We spent far more time researching and selecting PS3 games for them, because a) they are generally much less banal and b) we can all join in. Plus many of them are multi-player and inherently more social.

Lego might be a better example. I was obsessive, but it gave me the skills to follow instructions, to use my imagination to create, to problem-solve

Yep. I hear parents panicking about kids spending time on Minecraft and I think: it’s modern LEGO, with an infinite building area and supply of bricks plus the ability to add some logic.
If they are actually creating some stuff with it and solving problems, and it isn’t all consuming, then that’s no bad thing. Some of these kids may be our future architects.

So you’re not restricting play time at all, then. You’re just not leaving it lying around to tempt them and giving them something else to do instead. Which is admirable, but I’m baffled as to what that has to do with either the cartoon you objected to or your initial “limiting screen time” argument?

We are restricting it – If they do play it, we’ll take it off them if we think they’ve been on it too long. That’s limiting screen time, no? Let me re-phrase the first sentence:

When they play on it (or other electronic devices) they would do so for hours if we let them

Yet, you’re letting them now aren’t you? And they’ve not played on them in months?

Sorry, I’m getting in danger of “arguing on the Internet” now and that’s not my intention. But I wonder, have they lost interest because you’ve trained them out of it, or because the novelty’s worn off? And, is that a good thing?

A bit of both. We started limiting it when we saw how addictive it was for them – and they seem to have become used to accepting limits. We explain how these things need to be limited and why, and fortunately our eldest accepts these explanations. And we give them something else to do.

And we’ve not paid for any games, (although we did for some of the decent ones on phones like Kinectimals) which limits things quite a lot. As a player of grown up games you might not appreciate how much stuff there is that seems purely designed to get kids to run up lots of in-app purchases.

We avoided that issue by getting a tablet with whichever Android version has the user accounts, and creating their own google accounts without any credit card details. Our grown-up accounts have PINs.