Viewing 40 posts - 121 through 160 (of 215 total)
  • Jess Varnish
  • Premier Icon epicyclo
    Full Member

    Interestingly, in some Oz circles, I think they’re welcoming the discord in BC. They haven’t written Varnish off as a competitor yet.

    I think there should be a separation of the selection and coaching bodies. Not all athletes fit a particular method of coaching (Graeme Obree being a good example), so if there were alternative bodies or self coaching it would be better.

    The selection body could dictate what events were acceptable for qualification and ensure that entries were open to suitably qualified people, ie ensure that it was open.

    Premier Icon ratherbeintobago
    Full Member

    It was touched on earlier, it’s becoming seen as an Olympic medal machine. That’s not all it is but there is a big focus on competition, and Olympic success is visible and does drive cycling in general and BC’s profile to a far greater extent than it did at the turn of the century…

    That’s a function of lottery money, though; if the majority of funding rides on potential medal winners, then winning medals becomes all important. Didn’t swimming lose a lot of funding after a poor olympics?

    Premier Icon curiousyellow
    Free Member

    @lunge does it need to be a cutthroat environment? I’m not even sure it is. You only have to look at the successes of people outside of it to for proof.

    It sounds more like it’s being run like an old boys club and is very “cliquey”. Every story trashing BC has a common element of them trying to save face by pretty much banning athletes who are outside their system from competing. Why are they so insistent on not allowing self funded athletes to compete if it’s not to save face?

    Sport should be about the best athletes having a shot. Ideally with no detriment to the other athletes. BC seem to only want their athletes to have a shot. And even then, only the ones who toe their line.

    Premier Icon Rorschach
    Free Member

    You don’t get funding if you are’nt a potential olympic medal winner.
    But you can’t develop to become an olympic medal winner without funding.
    Mmmm.

    Premier Icon atlaz
    Free Member

    TBH, it feels like gobshite Aussie coach didn’t like what happened after chippy track rider felt she’d been badly done by in the run up to Olympics and then decided to boot her out (sorry, not renew the contract). She’d have kept it zipped after the booting had Sutton not done a piece for a paper in direct contradiction of his verbal agreement with Jess Varnish. If you were Varnish you’d be concerned that any private funding you might have been banking on to get could dry up if the papers are full of how you’re not good enough.

    Had it been performance based she’d have had warning I’m sure though. Once you’ve got to a few months out of the Olympics, she’s already hoovered up most of the cash from the lottery for that cycle (pardon the pun) so there’s no reason she couldn’t have gone given she’s qualified for certain other track disciplines.

    Problem with having a pissed off employee with access to the press is all the other shit you didn’t want aired in public tends to flood out. At the very least Sutton needs a slap for his managing of the situation but if all (or even half) of the allegations are true he needs to be fired.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Free Member

    Considering the reaction from most of the pro/ex pro women who have dealt with BC it’s looking more and more like a shambles and a who you know set up. Most are very happy to see this all come out.

    Premier Icon peteimpreza
    Full Member

    This

    “”The attitude towards them was abysmal,” said Kenny. “We were tolerated at best. The term used to refer to us was generally ‘gimps’, with another word in front of that.”

    Would be instant dismissal in any normal company / institution .

    What a vile man he is turning out to be .

    Premier Icon ransos
    Free Member

    Considering the reaction from most of the pro/ex pro women who have dealt with BC it’s looking more and more like a shambles and a who you know set up.

    Yes, there does seem to be a pattern in the comments made by them. Given that we’re talking about multi-gold medallists, I doubt it’s sour grapes.

    Premier Icon mrblobby
    Free Member

    I think there should be a separation of the selection and coaching bodies.

    This. The discretionary nature of selection stinks. If you’re not on their program you’ve got no chance, even more so if you start beating riders who are on their program!

    Premier Icon clodhopper
    Free Member

    “I fear my comments that it was Jess with sour grapes may well prove to be entirely inaccurate here, my bad.”

    You and several others appear to have gone down the route of assuming it was just one female athlete feeling hard done by and lashing out. Now appears you were wrong. But at least you’ve accepted that. I think quite a few others need to do similar.

    Sutton has now refuted claims made by Varnish, but he does seem to be on the back foot; if he truly had done nothing wrong, surely he’d not be saying anything and leaving it to BC. Speaking out now makes him look like he’s got something to hide imo.

    And rather embarrassingly, he’s actually unwittingly done himself more harm than good, with this statement:

    “Jess is a wonderful girl, a beautiful person”

    Seems he’s actually totally unaware of just how patronising and sexist he is! ‘Girl’? Jess is an adult woman ffs. ‘Beautiful person’? What does that mean? Would he say that about a male athlete? I doubt it.

    Many on here seemed keen to just brush aside any notion that sexism exists in BC. I wonder how they’d feel if it were racism that was the issue? Just shows the extent of the problem that is Sexism in our society, and just how much work (sadly) still needs to be done.

    Premier Icon iainc
    Full Member

    suspect Sutton is just the (rather unpleasant) tip of a rather large Iceberg here 🙁

    Premier Icon clodhopper
    Free Member

    Sadly, I suspect you’re probably right, Iainc.

    Premier Icon lunge
    Full Member

    You and several others appear to have gone down the route of assuming it was just one female athlete feeling hard done by and lashing out

    I did, as at the time there was little or no evidence to suggest otherwise. Now it appears this was entirely inaccurate hence suggesting I appear to be very wrong.

    Premier Icon nickc
    Full Member

    Didn’t swimming lose a lot of funding after a poor olympics?

    hmmm, and didn’t they employ an Aussie Coach with “limited” interpersonal skills to coach the team with decidedly mixed results!

    seems a well trod path…

    I can see how, from even a successful competitor position it would be difficult to sound alarm bells when a team (BC) is on the face of it “a good news story”…

    Premier Icon jambalaya
    Free Member

    The Americans run a very simple Olymlic selection system, they have a trial.

    Lottery money provides a lot of benefits but imho it raises the “temperature” as aside from coaching and facilities it provides athletes with the money they live on.

    This incident and the suspension is not going to help us at Rio, if we don’t perform as a cycling team overall funding could be cut potentially dramatically

    Premier Icon dragon
    Free Member

    Anyone who knows cycling, knows that Sutton is a rough Aussie, so I suspect all kinds of iffy things come out of his mouth. But he is payed to get results. It all does sound like BC is rather leadership less now Dave isn’t really involved.

    if we don’t perform as a cycling team overall funding could be cut potentially dramatically

    True, but would that really be a bad thing? Probably only for the athletes not making the grade.

    Premier Icon curiousyellow
    Free Member

    @dragon if he’s paid to get results then fine. Why are multiple allegations surfacing of him trying to oppress people getting good results outside the system (Cooke and Copnall recently)?

    Sounds like he’s one of those people for whom it’s not enough for him to win, but you have to lose too. Pretty shameful.

    Premier Icon mrblobby
    Free Member

    @dragon if he’s paid to get results then fine. Why are multiple allegations surfacing of him trying to oppress people getting good results outside the system (Cooke and Copnall recently)?

    I’d have thought that was pretty obvious. His team is funded to get results. If people who are not part of his team are getting results and beating his team, how does that make his team and his use of funding look?

    Well looks like he’s been suspended…

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/36147120

    TBH from what I’ve read over the years about Sutton I was surprised they let him take over the show.

    Premier Icon Nobeerinthefridge
    Free Member

    Sutton has always come across as a hard faced wee shit, so all of this is not really much of a surprise.

    Although I think describing his words about her being a ‘wonderful girl and a beautiful person’ as sexist is a bit of a stretch.

    Premier Icon dragon
    Free Member

    But Cooke ‘worked’ under Sutton first with Wales then BC, so a bit odd to say he suppressed her results.

    As for Copnall that is a very different case BC didn’t think she was good enough.

    You can exist outside of BCs control, but I’d suggest you go elsewhere for support, Dan Martin riding for Ireland is a great example.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Free Member

    Although I think describing his words about her being a ‘wonderful girl and a beautiful person’ as sexist is a bit of a stretch.

    It’s easy, flip it round

    ‘wonderful girlboy and a beautiful person’

    to describe Chris Hoy/Brad etc.

    Premier Icon mrblobby
    Free Member

    ‘wonderful girl boy and a beautiful person’

    to describe Chris Hoy/Brad etc.

    That just makes him sound like a peado.

    Premier Icon Nobeerinthefridge
    Free Member

    I’m 41 and if someone referred to me as the above Mike, I’d really not give it a second thought. Sir Alex used to refer to most footballers as boys frinstance.

    I’m not for a minute defending SS btw.

    Premier Icon clodhopper
    Free Member

    “Although I think describing his words about her being a ‘wonderful girl and a beautiful person’ as sexist is a bit of a stretch.”

    But is this because it isn’t sexist, or because you don’t really fully understand what sexism actually is?

    It’s an adult man talking about an adult woman. Using the term ‘girl’ suggests Sutton sees her as inferior and of less status. Why doesn’t he use the term ‘woman’? She’s not his friend, she’s a colleague. He is in a professional position, and should act professionally, according to the law and the terms set out in his contract, which I’m sure state that sexism and any other form of discrimination are unacceptable. It may well be that his use of the term ‘girl’ wasn’t meant to be patronising or sexist, but it is more likely that he is a bit of a dinosaur and hasn’t caught up with the 21st century yet.

    If the claims about his comments re para-athletes are true, then this becomes even worse, and totally undermines anything else he might have to say.

    “I’m 41 and if someone referred to me as the above Mike, I’d really not give it a second thought. Sir Alex used to refer to most footballers as boys frinstance.”

    It’s not about you and your own personable sensibilities though, is it?

    Premier Icon atlaz
    Free Member

    Sutton is probably finished now no matter what. He can’t lead BC with this sort of press but I hope “the management” don’t make him the only person to get the blame. He’s the head but it sounds like the whole organisation is broken.

    Premier Icon Nobeerinthefridge
    Free Member

    It may well be that his use of the term ‘girl’ wasn’t meant to be patronising or sexist, but it is more likely that he is a bit of a dinosaur and hasn’t caught up with the 21st century yet.

    Is about right I’d say. He’s a kick in the baws off 60, and had worked with her since a young age, so probably sees her as a ‘girl’.

    Premier Icon ferrals
    Free Member

    I imagine Sutton will go, but for me, while his behaviour is unpleasnat, its not the main issue. The main issue is the poor selection process which goes beyond Sutton and the utter failure of BC to support our mtb athletes getting to the olympics. We’ve currently got great xc riders, both male and female and it’s a travesty they are not going to be able to represent their country. I’m pretty sure if we’d had a full contingent at the world championships we’d be sending riders.
    I’m mildly concerned the personal problem with Sutton will alow BC to sweep the over-arching problem uder the table

    Premier Icon DaRC_L
    Full Member

    ferrals + 1
    back to the usual blame an individual rather than examine the organisational structure

    Premier Icon clodhopper
    Free Member

    “while his behaviour is unpleasnat, its not the main issue. The main issue is the poor selection process which goes beyond Sutton and the utter failure of BC to support our mtb athletes getting to the olympics. “

    TBH I couldn’t personally give a shit about the sport side of things. That side of things seems to be more about money than it does about sports anyway. No, the issue of sexism and now disability discrimination is far, far more serious than sports. Because those issues affect our entire society, not just some cycle athletes.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Full Member

    Sutton is probably finished now no matter what. He can’t lead BC with this sort of press but I hope “the management” don’t make him the only person to get the blame. He’s the head but it sounds like the whole organisation is broken.

    Just what I was going to say.

    Sutton will surely and deservedly get the boot (if allegations against him are substantiated), but hopefully he won’t become the scapegoat for all the other issues raised.

    Premier Icon ferrals
    Free Member

    No, the issue of sexism and now disability discrimination is far, far more serious than sports

    Not quite what I’m saying, the discrimation against women (i’ve not read about the disability side of things beyond the insults) seems to be part of the selection process beyond Sutton. The issue I have are people are focusisng on what nasty things Sutton has said which allows them to put the highlight on his personal behaviour, not an atitude which may go deeper

    Premier Icon ScottChegg
    Free Member

    I think it’s a bit poor that the only success criteria is medals at the Olympics.

    What’s wrong with being the best in GB and a spirited 5th in the World? I’d be quite pleased with myself for that.

    Being forced to watch it at home because someone thinks you won’t get at least a bronze is missing the whole point of competitive sport.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Full Member

    ScottChegg – Member

    I think it’s a bit poor that the only success criteria is medals at the Olympics.

    What’s wrong with being the best in GB and a spirited 5th in the World? I’d be quite pleased with myself for that.

    Being forced to watch it at home because someone thinks you won’t get at least a bronze is missing the whole point of competitive sport.

    I remember in the last olympics, watching some event- I think it was swimming- and a british athlete got bronze. Before they’d even got their breath back, they were being told by the interviewer how disappointed they must be, to have let people down by only getting bronze. Poor wee dude’s face… That said it all, for me.

    Premier Icon dragon
    Free Member

    What’s wrong with being the best in GB and a spirited 5th in the World? I’d be quite pleased with myself for that.

    Because whether you like it or not GB pay a fortune to athletes, not just directly but also through research, travel etc., so they expect a return on their money. The medal table at the end of the Olympics doesn’t list the number of 5ths.

    Premier Icon mt
    Free Member

    ‘wonderful boy and a beautiful person’

    I would say that this describes Hoy very well.

    One of the reasons that BC concentrate on track cycling is medals success (the source of the funding) is easier to gain. MTB (and road to a lesser extent) has to many variables to control so though I don’t agree with the lack of MTB support I can understand why track takes priority. With the concentration on track it allows riders to move into road racing having had the good skill that having been a track rider gives.

    Can’t comment on what Sutton may have done/said but should imagine being a coach athlete at BC is a tough business at times. They need to win and nearly winners have to be moved on. I do remember a stand out phrase from Dave Brailsford “compassionate ruthlessness”, perhaps things are not going so well without Brailsford’s guidance or the Pete Keen original plan being studied.

    Premier Icon mrblobby
    Free Member

    But for BC to deny selection to someone who is qualified and is prepared to self fund when there are places available just seems silly.

    Premier Icon whitestone
    Free Member

    The describing of women in sport as “girls” is widespread: watch an athletics event and even the women presenters like Denise Lewis will use “girls” rather than “women”, e.g. “The girls are lined up for the Women’s 100m final”. Sharon Davies does it for the swimming events as well. I wouldn’t say I’m completely PC but it jars even with me. You’ll also hear “the girls/boys did well out there” which suggests that it’s partly an age thing with older presenters/commentators talking about athletes who are somewhat younger than them.

    Premier Icon curiousyellow
    Free Member

    But Cooke ‘worked’ under Sutton first with Wales then BC, so a bit odd to say he suppressed her results.

    Semantics I reckon, but I said “oppressed”, not “suppressed” though I think I know where you’re coming from. It seemed like Cooke flourished despite Sutton and co. Who knows? Perhaps their disgusting attitudes fueled her motivation.

    People have repeatedly said BC did their best to exclude non-BC funded athletes from competition at no detriment to themselves. Sounds like saving face is what matters to BC, and not results.

    In an ideal world we’d celebrate people’s results. I’m yet to hear of privateers in the DH compos get pilloried for their success. People are happy for them. Why do BC feel so insecure about this?

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Free Member

    The medal table at the end of the Olympics doesn’t list the number of 5ths.

    No but it’s sport so only entering the top 3 would make for a dull games. If your in the top 5 you have a shot.
    Just ask Joshua Button

    Premier Icon Speshpaul
    Full Member

    @dragon if he’s paid to get results then fine. Why are multiple allegations surfacing of him trying to oppress people getting good results outside the system (Cooke and Copnall recently)?”

    Brailsford was in charge at the time of the Fort William selection/joke.

    What we are hearing now only reinforces “things” we have heard before.
    I don’t think BC is the nicest place in the world to work, there have been a “few” out of court settlements for former employees.

Viewing 40 posts - 121 through 160 (of 215 total)

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