Is voting for UKIP wrong?

If you agree with their “policies” then vote for them. BUT do look behind the headlines, have a really deep think about what their proposals will ultimately mean.

Eg: Opt out of the Human Rights Act.

That is jumping on the media’s bandwagon about the difficulty of deporting hate preachers adovcating terrorism. The other extreme, if the UK were to remove the Human Rights Act, would be the ability to create a police state with impunity.

UKIP is made up of anti Europe Tory backbenchers. Apart from Farage they are not smart enough to stick to party line when making comments in public. The only reason people are talking about them is because of the easy, sensationalist headlines they readily supply to the gutter press. The only reason people might vote for them is because the Daily Mail and The Sun tell them to.

If you want more Tory than the Tories, then go ahead and vote for them.

Also interesting is what’s happening in the good old USofA – possibly the third Bush in power in 30 years. If not then they’ll probably get a Clinton instead – and that’s the country who most espouse democracy! Not so far away from the Putin/Medvedev swappsies

The Americans love political dynasties, Kennedys before now we have the Bush/Clinton.

People love to insult UKIP but with Junker today calling for EU armed forces it’s more ammunition for the euro skeptics / euro exit brigade

@bigbkackshed opting out of the EUropean Human Rights Act and replacing it with a UK equivalent is an excellent idea, we as a country have one of the best records on human rights we can manage our own affairs

I’ll say one thing for Farage – he’s bang on the money that the established parties have lost touch with the electorate. He’s got us talking about politics and change in a way I don’t recall

This, I don’t think UKIP are fielding enough candidates to win outright power. But if voting for them can bring real change to the system then that can only be a good thing. The two main parties are far too complacent in their ways.
We’ll see what happens I suppose

I honestly think the only rotten eggs actually half capable of steering this sinking ship at the moment are the Tories. Voting UKIP is only going to serve to take numbers away from the Conservatives and therefore let Labour back in. God help us!

Voting UKIP will force the Tories to move further “right” to capture the UKIP voters. That, in turn, will let Labour move further right as they only have to stay a smidgeon left of the Tories to be seen as less extreme than them.

Well UKIP are going to do a fraction of the damage to the Tories that the SNP are going to do to Labour. I don’t see too many seats where a UKIP vote will let Labour in and UKIP will form an alliance / vote with Conservatives. The real story of the election is going to be the SNP preventing a Labour win.

@bigbkackshed opting out of the EUropean Human Rights Act and replacing it with a UK equivalent is an excellent idea, we as a country have one of the best records on human rights we can manage our own affairs

Oh dear, you were doing sort of all right up until this point.

The real story of the election is going to be the SNP preventing a Labour win.

I thought that was Ed Millibands job?

1. There is no left wing political presence in the UK it died on the picket lines of the miners strike (other than possibly the SNP who are about to annihilate the mainstream parties in Scotland)
Note if the SNP ran in the North East of England they would probably win most seats

Don’t forget though that their main point of existense is so that their socialist leanings can be deposited at Gretna. If you live in the NE of England you could have looked North in envy at a nation of millionaires due to an oil fund, because don’t forget it is OURS. Get the begging bowl out. A few kindhearted McChe’s might throw you a penny or two. Also don’t think the SNP cares two hoots about the NHS outside Scotland. It thinks your healthcare is going to hell in a handcart, just don’t drag us down too.

The words of Orwell spring to mind about the mantra the SNP spread to it’s supporters,
“All animals are created equal, but some animals are more equal than others”

I don’t think UKIP are fielding enough candidates to win outright power.

They wont even get to double figures. you can argue its the fault of FPTP but not even Nigel after a lock in thinks they can win power.

opting out of the EUropean Human Rights Act and replacing it with a UK equivalent is an excellent idea, we as a country have one of the best records on human rights we can manage our own affairs

If we have such an excellent record [ and what we propose will be equivalent] then why are you afraid to be judged by the Euro convention? We will pass and let prisoners vote and things like that wont we 😕
What an arrogant and retrograde position that is. It exists to protect us from the state it cannot be administered by the state. You would also find it hard to preach to the world when we cannot meet international standards ourself and we respond by running away and re writing the rules to suit ourselves. to spin this as excellent and managing ourt won affairs [ China, russia, Sauid and north kore etc like to do this BTW ]

I’ve not read all that up there other than the first few posts. I’ve got one of those black fellas who’s a good mate working for me at the moment, he suggested voting for ukip, does that mean he’s a racist?

You are not immune from racism due to your skin colour.

I dont know if they are racist or not.

emsz – Member
I say it’s also a way to see how people react with each others
don’t know what you mean

By being critical of others you (in general) also show the side of your thinking whether they are good or bad.

scotroutes – Member

Why ask the question? If you’ve decided to vote UKIP based on their policies, then fine – go for it. Perhaps you’re looking for someone to talk you out of it (unlikely based on your previous posts), or perhaps you’re just looking to start an argument a discussion for no reason.

No, I am not trying to start an argument nor am I trying to be a troll. Just want to confirm some of my own views that people are divided and that vent their thoughts on a “scapegoat” party and that mainstream political parties are rather out of touch with some people. Also try to spot the elitist views from various sections. i.e. they all have.

flap_jack – Member

OP – have you read about their cycling policy ? This is a pro-cycling forum. If you’re pro-UKIP you’ve really no place here.

I think I heard that on BBC news but seriously there are many in society that hates cyclist which I find surprising but perhaps I have not driven long enough to understand the drivers hatred of cyclists. I have no problem with cyclists nor mopeds as I am used to them.

brooess – Member
He’s got us talking about politics and change in a way I don’t recall (I’m 42 this year).

😆 You are at your peak of your political reasoning/thoughts.

bigblackshed – Member

If you agree with their “policies” then vote for them. BUT do look behind the headlines, have a really deep think about what their proposals will ultimately mean.

Eg: Opt out of the Human Rights Act.

I think the Human Rights Act is overrated as I really don’t know when or where to apply Human Rights Act to be honest.

jambalaya – Member
The Americans love political dynasties, Kennedys before now we have the Bush/Clinton.

I find Bush to be a straight talker who can be biased in front of your face while Clinton is more stealth and a good speaker.

Junkyard – lazarus

You would also find it hard to preach to the world when we cannot meet international standards ourself and we respond by running away and re writing the rules to suit ourselves. to spin this as excellent and managing ourt won affairs [ China, russia, Sauid and north kore etc like to do this BTW ]

I think other countries know how to differentiate between right and wrong to suit themselves. It is NOT for UK to preach/teach others the rights or wrongs. For example, the Bali nine where other nations try to intervene in other nation law … would you let other countries detect to you their values?

@El-bent I am devastated not to have lost your approval. JY starts up again and we see just the sort of respomce to my posts UKIP gets,moots of insults and an unwillingness to take counter arguments seriously which is just the vacuum that UKIP has stepped into. The point on the Human Rights convention is the Euro part and a European Court overriding the UKs national interest.

UKIP are predicted to come second in 100 seats. That’s a seismic shift and it’s not hard to imagine what momentum that could give them in local elections or another GE if there is a hung parliament. All very scary stuff.

jambalaya – Member
The point on the Human Rights convention is the Euro part and a European Court overriding the UKs national interest.

That’s the problem.

UKIP are predicted to come second in 100 seats. That’s a seismic shift and it’s not hard to imagine what momentum that could give them in local elections or another GE if there is a hung parliament. All very scary stuff.

100 seats 😆 That goes to show that mainstream parties are totally out of touch with people.

How can that be scary when “majority” are in the same boat or voted them?

I forgot to mention that, whilst delivering my leaflets earlier around the slightly damp Old Gaywood, I bumped into my UKIP adversary…

Was probably an amusing sight; me, the Green Party candidate, young(ish), short, white asymmetric hair do, looking a tiny bit alternative. Him; older, tie/shirt looking very UKIP…

To be fair, he seemed like a perfectly okay guy.

Rachel

The point on the Human Rights convention is the Euro part and a European Court overriding the UKs national interest.

We signed up to a treaty saying we would honour x and y. They only say we have failed to do this. In your scenario parliament could just re write the law for “national interest” and my human right is gone. Personally I think it is a good thing that the power of the state [ who freely signed the treaty] to infringe on my civil liberties is curtailed by a power separate from them. The national interest has been used in many states to oppress the people.

YMMV but no need to be [passively aggressively] rude to me just because I disagree with you. other has also disagreed but only I “started”

Yep – their economic policy is titwankery.

allthegear – Member
… damp Old Gaywood, I bumped into …

Sure you do, sure you do.

😆

Voting UKIP will force the Tories to move further “right” to capture the UKIP voters. That, in turn, will let Labour move further right as they only have to stay a smidgeon left of the Tories to be seen as less extreme than them.

To be fair, that’s the only position that they manage to win elections from though… See the Blair years for info.

I think the Human Rights Act is overrated as I really don’t know when or where to apply Human Rights Act to be honest.

So, you’re not an expert but you think it’s overrated. Classic. Typical kipper, you think everyone’s as clever as you are.

The point on the Human Rights convention is the Euro part and a European Court overriding the UKs national interest.

Do you want to be part of the club? I’m sure you do for business purposes. Here are one set of the the rules you have to follow. The ECHR.

National interest. Really? We might as well replace those words with FOR THE KING! It amounts to the same thing to ordinary people(peasants).

UKIP are predicted to come second in 100 seats. That’s a seismic shift and it’s not hard to imagine what momentum that could give them in local elections or another GE if there is a hung parliament. All very scary stuff.

UKIP were annihilated at the last GE, its only when the tory party stated that “immigrants are bad” and we can’t send “Asylum seekers” back to where they came from because of the ECHR, that it gave UKIP political capital.

This is the tory party’s fault, and now UKIP have even more capital because Cameron has shifted further towards UKIP ideals, in an effort to save his party..but in process jeopardising the future of the UK.

Simple explanation of the Human Rights Act for you:

Without it, and some related acts around equality, I’d probably* be dead.

Rachel

* average life expectancy of a trans person in US is 26.

Why not use something like http://voteforpolicies.org to help you decide?

Which is proof that ALL the parties simply write down a load of stuff they think will attract votes. How much chance does a typical party on being voted in have of bringing those policies to fruition? But of course it’s too late then.

Quite a lot of them are just generalised waffle with no real substantive intention.

Is voting UKIP wrong? Well… I’ll just leave this quote…

“Ukip Candidate Victoria Ayling Asks What Happens ‘When Renewable Energy Runs Out'”

Google sources just so I don’t seemed biased to any publication you can see its well documented.

Probably got words muddled to be fair but its only one quote of many, really do question where UKIP finds its candidates!

@allthegear, that’s cool you are standing to Parliament. I used to work with a Green Party candidate who stood for election back in 1985 in Oxford. Was interesting talking to him about issues and the campaigns.

Which means there will be 545 seats where they don’t even manage second.

Thanks. I probably identify more strongly with the social justice side than anything. There’s nothing like having lead a life of many twists and turns to help you realise that we need to support everyone the best that we can.

flap_jack – Member

I think the Human Rights Act is overrated as I really don’t know when or where to apply Human Rights Act to be honest.

So, you’re not an expert but you think it’s overrated. Classic. Typical kipper, you think everyone’s as clever as you are. [/quote]

The question is do I have to be an expert in everything that put forward to me in order to reject or accept them? I mean do I have to be an expert in law? I think intelligence is also overrated when information processing is concerned.

allthegear – Member

Simple explanation of the Human Rights Act for you:

Without it, and some related acts around equality, I’d probably* be dead.

Rachel

* average life expectancy of a trans person in US is 26.

I can assure you everyone will die at certain point in time. It is the way you die that matters most. If you die in your sleep that is the best to go and anything other than that may not be a peaceful death. Death is a journey and it is the way you face death that will free you. However, if you apply scientific views then you will cling onto life for as long as you can because of the assumption that it is the end. i.e. carbon, no more. Not advocating suicide btw.

allthegear – Member
Simple explanation of the Human Rights Act for you:

Without it, and some related acts around equality, I’d probably* be dead.

Rachel

* average life expectancy of a trans person in US is 26.

I can assure you everyone will die at certain point in time. It is the way you die that matters most. If you die in your sleep that is the best to go and anything other than that may not be a peaceful death. Death is a journey and it is the way you face death that will free you.[/quote]

That is not what Rachel said, or meant, and you know it.

I think intelligence is also overrated when information processing is concerned.

😯

intelligence is the ability to process information.

bigblackshed – Member
That is not what Rachel said, or meant, and you know it.

Aarrgghhh … I must have misread something.

Anyway, I re-read it again. Why are transgender people prosecuted I don’t know because where I come from they are considered as 3rd gender and we see them everyday. Nobody laugh or poke fun or harass them in anyway or form.

Junkyard – lazarus

I think intelligence is also overrated when information processing is concerned.

😯 [/quote]

I know I know … it’s like saying human beings have the ability to be consistently rational when their rationality is limited. You cannot be know it all you know. You may be able to process information better than some but you are incapable of being consistence in digesting all possibilities you know. If you can you call yourself living god even machine cannot cover all possibilities if the person who programme it does not possess the knowledge of all possibilities.

Why are transgender people prosecuted I don’t know because where I come from they are considered as 3rd gender and we see them everyday. Nobody laugh or poke fun or harass them in anyway or form.

Does North Borneo have different laws to the rest of Malaysia – how does that work ?

“Discrimination against lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) people is pervasive in Malaysia. In September, Human Rights Watch issued a report “I’m Scared to be a Woman”: Human Rights Abuses against Transgender People in Malaysia that focused on the impact of state-level Sharia (Islamic) laws that prohibit cross-dressing. The report revealed that transgender persons face arbitrary arrest, physical and sexual assault, imprisonment, discriminatory denial of health care and employment, and other abuses. Three transgender women challenged the Sharia ordinance on constitutional grounds in the state of Negeri Sembilan and on November 7, won their appeal in a major victory for rights in the country. However, government prosecutors are expected to appeal the decision.”

http://www.hrw.org/world-report/2015/country-chapters/malaysia

http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/09/24/malaysia-transgender-people-under-threat

No its like saying if you are intelligent you can process information better than someone who is not intelligent
I dont think this is a radical or controversial point tbh.

I struggle with long sentences.

im voting ukip. not saying its a ‘perfect’ party but things cannot remain the same in this country.

if you vote for any of the others you are in for another 5 years of the same bullshit.

if ukip get a foot in the door the others will have to pull their shit together.

..or maybe they wont.

I struggle with long sentences.

im voting ukip.
Sometimes the auto replace just nails it 😉

Anyway whats the worst that could happen, massive and messy divorce with the EU after a hideous campaign of straight banana, bendy cucumber and shooting people who say 1lb of apples.

A lurch to the right closer to the US approach

Worst of all would be a UKIP coalition partner, I can’t see them rolling like the Lib Dems. On the plus side most would probably be forced to resign within a couple of months for opening their mouths.

I can think of worse things…

ernie_lynch – Member
Does North Borneo have different laws to the rest of Malaysia – how does that work ?

Ahh … I see the religious police. For whatever reasons this is a rather messy rule because it is only applicable to those people in that particular religion. Most in Borneo are Christians but that is changing. 😕

Which is one of those things that the act fixes, it’s a great thing.