Is voting for UKIP wrong?

brooess – Member

Cameron: Eton (Public School)
Clegg: Caldicott School + Westminster School (Independent)
Miliband: Primrose Hill Primary and Haverstock Comprehensive (State School)
Farage: Dulwich College (Public School)

Do you blame their parents for wanting to give them the best education they should get? In other part of the world parents would sacrifice almost everything to give their children the best education they can afford.

convert – Member
Give me an immigrant neighbour everyday over a ukip voting arsehole. In fact, a swap system would be brilliant- we get a hard working, initiative taking new member of our community and they get our hard of thinking detritus.

That’s the dilemma for me.

Do you blame their parents for wanting to give them the best education they should get? In other part of the world parents would sacrifice almost everything to give their children the best education they can afford.

Nothing to do with that – just using education as a proxy for social background to suggest that Nigel Farage is not the ‘man of the people’ as he presents himself as being. Read the FT piece. Of course they’re anti him but assuming it’s not a pack of lies, it does rather knock down the idea that he’s any different from the current political establishment, which is the point I’m making – he’s more of the same, not change or revolution.

brooess – Member
Nothing to do with that – just using education as a proxy for social background to suggest that Nigel Farage is not the ‘man of the people’ as he presents himself as being. Read the FT piece. Of course they’re anti him but assuming it’s not a pack of lies, it does rather knock down the idea that he’s any different from the current political establishment, which is the point I’m making – he’s more of the same, not change or revolution.

Interesting views.

I find this class war thing is really seriously embedded in the British society to the point of total hatred.

Where I was there was/is no distinction with one’s education background so long as they are not corrupted. Corruption is a big problem there and the cronies created by those in power.

convert – Member
Give me an immigrant neighbour everyday over a ukip voting arsehole. In fact, a swap system would be brilliant- we get a hard working, initiative taking new member of our community and they get our hard of thinking detritus.

That’s the dilemma for me … let me explain …

I generally find that first generation of immigrants are usually docile but the generation(s) after can be a different story. That latter seem to feel that other immigrants are here to share or to rob them off their cakes so not usually that welcoming.

However, they cannot afford to be the minority because they feel bullied by the locals or not welcome so would welcome immigrants yet only do so because of the strength in numbers. That’s my view and the people I encountered so far …

have nothing to add other than

http://www.buzzfeed.com/hannahjewell/nigel-farage-tweeted-a-question-and-people-took-the-piss?fb_action_ids=10152812602717672&fb_action_types=og.shares#.xbjMYyZX3

tho if i was an old gaywooder id vote for allthegear

Very slight digression but the local (Allerdale) UKIP councillor won the Worlds Biggest Liar Contest. How cool is that?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-30143372
http://democracy.allerdale.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=804

Presumably local councillors don’t count as politicians…

No of course not, everyone should vote, as much as a find them unpalatable they’ve not done anything to warrant being in some way banned – so if think thier policies are the best course of action for the UK vote for them.

But I’d warn anyone being swept up in Faragefever to take the time to read about thier ideas – they abuse the advantage of opposition more than any party I’ve taken note of – “we’re not racist” (but a lot of our members are) “we stand up for the working man and woman” (or at least those earning more than 50k a year because our proposed single rate of income tax would hammer everyone else) I could go on.

In my opinion UKIP will say ANYTHING to win someone over – behind closed doors in front of the ‘faithful’ they’re the worst kind of 70’s stand-up cliche, in public they care what they’re asked, they’re the Daily Mail of parties – give them an unfounded fear and they’ll confirm it for you.

Still, they’re the best thing that happened to UK politics since ’97 – love it hate Blair (okay he’s a dick) but the general public are once again interested in who governs them.

Oh I’m under no illusion that Farage is of the people.

I find this class war thing is really seriously embedded in the British society to the point of total hatred.

Where I was there was/is no distinction with one’s education background so long as they are not corrupted.

I hope you’re not accusing me of class hatred cos that’s a gross distortion of the point I’m making!… I’m merely pointing you to a few pieces of information which suggest Farage is of the same background as the current establishment and does not represent change in that respect. I’m not passing a judgement on whether I approve of him on that basis or not.

If you want to vote for him, go ahead, just don’t be surprised when he doesn’t bring about any real change (assuming UKIP actually get enough seats to be able to have any influence on legislation)

If you think the “old” parties need to improve, then voting for a party worse in nearly every way will not achieve that.

Seriously, everything I dislike about the “establishment” parties is amplified to comic effect by the actions of UKIP MEPs.

brooess – Member

I hope you’re not accusing me of class hatred cos that’s a gross distortion of the point I’m making!… I’m merely pointing you to a few pieces of information which suggest Farage is of the same background as the current establishment and does not represent change in that respect. I’m not passing a judgement on whether I approve of him on that basis or not.

If you want to vote for him, go ahead, just don’t be surprised when he doesn’t bring about any real change (assuming UKIP actually get enough seats actually be able to have any influence on legislation)

No, not accusing you. Just my general feeling with the people I spoke to who were very vocal especially some my lefty colleagues. He resented them so much so that he would have negative impression/assumption on them before even meeting them.

I doubt they would form the govt as they are still in the very early stages of their political path …

For all the hysteria after a 5 minute skim read I don’t see anything too extreme about UKIP’s policies:

http://www.ukip.org/policies_for_people

I won’t be voting for them ‘cos my gut feel is we’re better off in Europe and even if I didn’t think that I have a feeling that it’s not as easy to withdraw from the EU as they seem to think so probably still wouldn’t vote for them. Also I get a sense of the LibDem-esq small party-deffo-won’t-get-in-so-promise-the-moon-on-a-stick-without-thinking-of-ways-to-pay-for-it-itis about their policies.

On Immigration they seem way less racist than the other parties: AFAICT Ukip are saying that all foreign nations will be subject to the same controls, whereas all the other parties say that immigration should be strickly controlled *unless* you’re from a nice European country (and coincidently likely to be roughly the same race as us), in which case there’s no need for control.

Frankly these threads amaze me?
1. There is no left wing political presence in the UK it died on the picket lines of the miners strike (other than possibly the SNP who are about to annihilate the mainstream parties in Scotland)
Note if the SNP ran in the North East of England they would probably win most seats
2. Most people in England think there Warren f**king Buffet but can’t even run a household let alone a business
3. We all need to stop thinking about “exit strategies” and “share options” and “property equity” as none of these are improving quality of life for the average person
4. UKIP is Nigel Farage that’s as deep as it gets – a bloke that’s prepared to reflect the views of a lot of people, if that’s unpalatable then tough shit it’s the same reason the Sun sells so many papers – the majority of people are dumb as a post to the political classes activities (read about Blairs current activities in today’s telegraph)
5. Just for the record I will not be voting for any of them as they are all self serving money grabbing b******s

I know of a LOT of people who’ll vote UKIP, a lot more than who won’t & I believe that if one has the right to vote then one has the right to vote for whoever one wants, no wrongs or rights about it.

“Wrong”? No, no more than poking yourself in the eye with a stick is wrong. Self-destructive, but not wrong.

Where I live the Tory gets in every time. The Libs used to be the protest option, but are now untouchable. So for me it’s stay home time, or vote UKIP. Which might split the Tory vote enough to let Labour in. I do hope they’ll show some gratitude.

I believe Dave cocked up with his ‘fruitcakes and closet racists’. I can’t see many of them returning like lost sheep. The ‘loonies’ bit was a bigger mistake, enough people having experienced mental troubles, directly or through friends and families.

See the ‘Son in hospital in coma’ thread for why voting for UKIP is wrong. That service would just not be available to folk if the UKIPpers got their way. Scum.

UKIP are just the Tory’s in another name with very little difference at grass roots level so not such a big step for most.

Vote for who you want, it’s your vote, feel free to use it as you see fit

I know of a LOT of people who’ll vote UKIP, a lot more than who won’t & I believe that if one has the right to vote then one has the right to vote for whoever one wants, no wrongs or rights about it.

I won’t be voting for UKIP, nor will anyone that I know who has expressed a preference recently-although to be fair it is not a topic of conversation that comes up all that often.This may change of course.

Unfortunately like slowoldgit I live in a dyed in the wool tory constituency. I have never had an MP that I voted for in the 30 odd years I have been voting. The only person that I have voted for in an election that actually got in was via the proportional representation in the European elections. I will always vote however, because if I didn’t , how could I moan about the idiots others elect?

I agree it is important that you should vote for whoever you want. Or tactically if it keeps the person you don’t want out.

The current projections predict between 4 and 9 seats for ukip, which is not great for them ,but how votes for them split other parties votes may prove quite interesting (or frightening depending on your point of view)

Ya, I know your feeling as you are neither here nor there. Just like my Norwegian friend who was born to one immigrant parent who could not fit in either way. He was so stressed about where he lived or come from. I have many friends like that so I do feel for them.
My view is that just relax and go with the one that accept you more.

I think you’ve got the wrong end of the stick dude :-). I fit in just fine – the people who I fit in with see me as me and don’t give two hoots about where my parents were born.

Vote as you see fit.

No one else’s business

If you put it up for discussion, then you’re making it other peoples business.

If you’re a bigot and want to join other bigots voting in a party of bigots, then vote UKIP.
If not, don’t.

While I can generally find someone from any of the other relatively mainstream parties seemingly normal UKIP does seem to have a staggeringly high percentage of ****/Mentalists/Blatant racists making up its number. For that reason alone no, don’t vote for them. It’s a slippery slope. One too many protest votes and we might end with some real **** in charge.

jamj1974 – Member
I think you’ve got the wrong end of the stick dude :-). I fit in just fine – the people who I fit in with see me as me and don’t give two hoots about where my parents were born.

If I interpreted you wrongly then thanks for correcting me.

Good to hear that you are fine where you are and fit in unlike most of my friends with mixed parentage who constantly find it difficult to fit in by being tough on themselves.

Stay happy.

Every single UKIP candidate turns out to be a ****.

every single one, all the time. They just say the stupidest things, “the floods are because of gay people” “bongo bong land” or something just as mad.

They’re all idiots, what does that say about the people still wanting to vote for them?

johnnystorm – Member
While I can generally find someone from any of the other relatively mainstream parties seemingly normal UKIP does seem to have a staggeringly high percentage of ****/Mentalists/Blatant racists making up its number. For that reason alone no, don’t vote for them. It’s a slippery slope. One too many protest votes and we might end with some real **** in charge.

The question is why are there so many that will or intend to vote for them rather than the mainstream parties?

Are those voters being left out because those maintain stream parties voters keep maintaining what they have while the have not, no matter which mainstream parties they vote for, remain in the worst position?

If UKIP can win seat(s) then there must be something seriously wrong with the mainstream parties views for them to loose seat(s). They cannot keep hammering those that they regard as at lower spectrum of the society intelligent scale. There is a possibility that the support for UKIP will only increase if people keep being “disenfranchised” after continuously voting for main parties with not much improvement in their lives. Yes, you can blame the individuals but a fair majority are also hard working people.

emsz – Member

Every single UKIP candidate turns out to be a ****.

every single one, all the time. They just say the stupidest things, “the floods are because of gay people” “bongo bong land” or something just as mad.

They’re all idiots, what does that say about the people still wanting to vote for them?

Yes, I agree that they are not well trained in public presentation nor to control their mindset but at least you know who they really are.

The mainstream parties are so scary that you do not even know who the real person is. There is no way to defend against such stealth tactic no matter how “transparent” they said.

Look at the two main politicians (Tory and Labour) who recently got themselves in trouble with private companies “consulting” work. I mean these are people who would chew you up and spit you out without blinking an eye. However, when they are in front of the media they are “angelic” by saying all the right words. These are people who can stab you in the back without you even knowing until it’s too late.

😮

We live in interesting times. Lord Baker (Kenneth Baker, as was, former Tory minister) has floated the suggestion of a Con – Lab pact if the SNP should hold the balance of power. Which is because the SNP are likely to override Lab and the remaining Libs in Scotland. So that’s going to be a really popular idea in Scotland.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/election-2015-former-tory-chairman-calls-for-coalition-with-labour-to-keep-the-uk-together-10092329.html

The question is why are there so many that will or intend to vote for them rather than the mainstream parties?

because lots of folk don’t pay any attention, so when they see him in a pub saying the same sorts of badly thought out things they also think, and they are too lazy to figure out why those things are stupid.

It’s a good way of finding out who’s stupid. It’s about the only thing UKIP is useful for

Voting for a banker called Nigel will never be a protest vote.

If I’m honest, the UKIP scare the shit out of me. 😥

ere were me thinkin of votin UKip only to be told by them that are me better’s that a should be votin for Miliband an is party of workin class ero’s.

see that trouble wi bein a bit thick, yer needs the advice of them that’s been there an worked oo knows wat is like to be at bottom of heap. next thet’ll be tellin us abot 70’s n fatcha.

If I’m honest, the UKIP scare the shit out of me.

Your’e gonna need a lot of bog roll after the next election then.

FWIW, all politicians scare me, theyr’e all lying, cheating, underhand, greedy shites.

Well done for choosing to vote. Should be compulsory.

Tactical/Protest votes with the “It’s only 1 vote” mindset is probably the scariest. If you vote for a party that you don’t want elected and enough people do the same guess what they get in.

slowoldgit – Member
We live in interesting times. Lord Baker (Kenneth Baker, as was, former Tory minister) has floated the suggestion of a Con – Lab pact if the SNP should hold the balance of power. Which is because the SNP are likely to override Lab and the remaining Libs in Scotland. So that’s going to be a really popular idea in Scotland.

You can only hang on to Scotland for so long. At some point in time they will be independent nation and I think it will be during the last King/First President of UK (same person). My crystal ball says so … 😀

emsz – Member

because lots of folk don’t pay any attention, so when they see him in a pub saying the same sorts of badly thought out things they also think, and they are too lazy to figure out why those things are stupid.

How can folks not pay attention when Tory and Labour vice versa have been in power for so long? Even if you are clueless you would know how hard it is to earn a living and with that the first thing people blame is the govt but as they are in the lower spectrum of the society’s scale or intellectual scale they are deemed side shows. i.e. not important in terms of voting count …

It’s a good way of finding out who’s stupid. It’s about the only thing UKIP is useful for

I say it’s also a way to see how people react with each others.

I say it’s also a way to see how people react with each others

❓

don’t know what you mean

How can folks not pay attention when Tory and Labour vice versa have been in power for so long? Even if you are clueless you would know how hard it is to earn a living and with that the first thing people blame is the govt but as they are in the lower spectrum of the society’s scale or intellectual scale they are deemed side shows. i.e. not important in terms of voting count …

So is public school educated, ex banker, and married to a German Nigel Farage and his team of homophobic, xenophobic and UFO spotting nutjobs the people to rescue the little man from the alleged tyranny of the EU? God help us.

No it’s not wrong, you are free to vote for whom you wish that’s the strength of our democracy.

UKIP’s support has grown as the other parties have surcome to political correctness and will not confront an issue which a very substabtial portion of the population care about. Farage has stepped into the vacuum.

A series of issues a substantial proportion of the population don’t really understand. It’s the fault of the mainstream parties that none of then have even tried to explain them. It’s their laziness in trying to sound ukip-lite that’s got us in this mess.

Why ask the question? If you’ve decided to vote UKIP based on their policies, then fine – go for it. Perhaps you’re looking for someone to talk you out of it (unlikely based on your previous posts), or perhaps you’re just looking to start an argument a discussion for no reason.

OP – have you read about their cycling policy ? This is a pro-cycling forum. If you’re pro-UKIP you’ve really no place here.

I’ll say one thing for Farage – he’s bang on the money that the established parties have lost touch with the electorate. He’s got us talking about politics and change in a way I don’t recall (I’m 42 this year). Problem what we’re talking about is “what’s the point in voting, they’re all a bunch of self-serving crooks”… none of the parties, established or fringe seem to have a positive ideology to sell with sensible-sounding policies to deliver it, it’s all reactionary nonsense and manipulation.
Maybe that’s the revolution – complete rejection of first past the post and moving towards Proportional Representation – which would be a massive shift for UK politics.

Also interesting is what’s happening in the good old USofA – possibly the third Bush in power in 30 years. If not then they’ll probably get a Clinton instead – and that’s the country who most espouse democracy! Not so far away from the Putin/Medvedev swappsies 😯