Nick – an the good Samaritan was not a Christian. Your thesis that the moral requirement to help others is a Christian creation is obviously false on man grounds.

Its also really offensive

Yes and it was the Jews who Jesus lectured to about the Good Samaritan

I don’t do this often, but, ZOMFG. The Good Samaritan in the story was, surprisingly enough, a Samaritan- which is yet another pre-christian abrahamic religion which espouses being excellent to each other.

“The Persians,Eygptians,Greeks and Romans never helped you out if you got a puncture
Oh and they all also had slaves…”

The Christians of the confederate states of America also had slaves. So the presence or absence of slaves is nothing to do with Christianity.

Elfinsafety – Member

you cannot believe in the absence of something.

If someone presents you with an empty tray, and sez ‘do you believe there are any pies on this tray?’, you can of course answer ‘No’ and be right.

If someone presents you with an empty tray, and sez ‘do you believe there are no pies on this tray?’, you can of course say ‘Yes’ and also be right.

I do not need to believe in the absence of pies – there is a reality there that can be seen

Yes NW and it was the Jews who Jesus (the Jew)lectured to about the Good Samaritan.

“Do you believe there are no gods” is not eh same as “do you think there are no gods”

I know there are no gods. Belief does not come into it.

Ok, so it is this idea of an absolute truth which is philosophically complicated. The idea that such things are absolute facts is something which we cannot reconcile.

So?

The Samaritan was good despite not being Christian. You thesis is disproven by the very story you try to use to prove it.

Ok fair enough too tired anyway don’t agree with you re the whole ‘God’ thing though.

My tray of small pies is probbly about ready in the oven now. Shortly there shall exist no small pies. 🙂

You believe in God(s) Elf?

To be fair I doubt whether there’s much more than just the 4 of you still reading this thread

I’d agree you had a point, but for that I come back to find another 50 posts by 10 different people (not including you, who presumably are also following this – that or stalking me 😯 )

I do not need to believe in the absence of pies – there is a reality there that can be seen

They might be microscopic pies or invisible pies or very well camouflaged pies. The idea that just because you cannot perceive them means that their non existence is a fact is a great conceit.

Pastryfarianism!

Oh and i am amused by the way you say ‘easy’ then fail to answer the questions directly.

I do sometimes wonder if TJ is a politician in training. Or maybe he’s not one person, but a login to train up members of some political party in the art of pointless repetitive arguing.

TJ
I have not(knowingly at least) in this or any other thread claimed that mutual cooperation, man helping fellow man,is an exclusively Christian thing that Christians or even Jesus invented. Credit me with a modicum of intelligence please. There are many cultures throughout the world and throughout history who get along just fine without any knowledge whatsoever of Christianity.In fact many of them have been f88cked up and destroyed by missionary zealots in the name of Christ as various posters have said.

Aracer – once again the question asked had no meaningful answer. “Do I believe theeris no god” is meaningless. I do not believe in god. I have no belief about the absence of gods – I cannot as I do not believe in the concept of gods.

i believe there is no such thing as a flying spaghetti monster

Heathen

TandemJeremy – Member

So?

The Samaritan was good despite not being Christian. You thesis is disproven by the very story you try to use to prove it.

Precisely! He was neither a Jew nor a Christian(it hadn’t been invented yet :-)) but he showed exactly what you have been banging on about,compassion for his fellow man as this was far more important than any religious ritual,tradition and dogma.It is the universal thing that binds us all together,morality ethics whatever.

I know there are no gods. Belief does not come into it.

Prove it.

I do not need to believe in the absence of pies

I do not need a tray.

I can kill you without a tray, with the power of the Force – which is strong within me – even though I could kill you with a tray if I so wished. For I would hack at your neck with the thin bit until the blood flowed across the canteen floor.

nick1962
Will you stop and help a fellow rider in trouble?
Yes?
That’s one of the tenets of Christianity and I’m pretty sure that most people on here have an ethical belief and value system based on Christian principles. Forget about the church,fundamentalists, the Spanish inquisiton etc .Nearly 2,000 years ago Christians were one of the only voices in the West to espouse most of the values I hear put forward on this site daily and I’m not talking about single speed and what tyres.

That is pretty clearly saying that the moral code we live by is a Christian concept and this part especially

an ethical belief and value system based on Christian principles

is really rather offensive.

Its not a Christian concept, it pre exisits Christianity. Christianity is not western concept

Aracer – once again the question asked had no meaningful answer. “Do I believe theeris no god” is meaningless.

Yet others have manged to answer it quite adequately

I do not believe in god.

You should have said so earlier!

I have no belief about the absence of gods

No, you said you know there are no gods.

Given that such a thing is unknowable, By definition if you like. Then your ‘knowledge’ cannot be that.

nick1962
,compassion for his fellow man as this was far more important than any religious ritual,tradition and dogma.It is the universal thing that binds us all together,morality ethics whatever

Right – so now yo accpet it is not a christian concept. Now we are getting somewhere

Pastryfarianism!

12 tribes and all that …on a muffin

nick1962 has cut out the middleman and is arguing with himself.

Carlie – right form the beginning I said I do not believe in god.

Yeah yeah yeah, now the other bits!

ernie_lynch – Member

I do not need to believe in the absence of pies

I do not need a tray.

I can kill you without a tray, with the power of the Force – which is strong within me – even though I could kill you with a tray if I so wished. For I would hack at your neck with the thin bit until the blood flowed across the canteen floor.

*salutes the master of the dark side*

It is the universal thing that binds us all together,morality ethics whatever.

Bollox is it. Morality is taught like everything else. You can be brought up to believe that attacking strangers and stealing from them is morally acceptable. It’s actually probably very “natural” for our species. If we don’t do that it’s because we are taught that it’s not acceptable. Religion has played a very big part in that. In fact the major part.

Cmon tj, you claim to know something which is unknowable. So what is it? Its belief isn’t it

CharlieMungus – Member

Yeah yeah yeah, now the other bits

Answered several times

As I have no belief in Gods I cannot have any belief in there absence. they do not exist in my conciousness. I have no beliefs about gods at all. Tats what atheism is – a lack of belief in gods.

Its not unknowable to a rational person.

nick1962 has cut out the middleman and is arguing with himself.

Sometimes it’s easier 😉
Soemtimes it’s not

Ernie – I would agree that Religions do teach morals – I have no issue with that. My issue is with claiming that a moral code was created by a religion.

Teh religions adopted existing morals. they did not create them

Answered several times

As I have no belief in Gods I cannot have any belief in there absence. they do not exist in my conciousness. I have no beliefs about gods at all. Tats what atheism is – a lack of belief in gods.

We’ve moved on, why do you keep repeating this bit?
You do not have a belief in their absence, you have knowledge about this, you say. And this is the point of contention, not whether or not you believe in god.

Its not unknowable to a rational person.

Now now, you know this is weak.

What if there was a god who got by on making sure that folks thought / knew he did not exist.

Its not unknowable to a rational person.

Prove it.

Teh religions adopted existing morals. they did not create them

None of them?

You cannot prove the absence of something – nice debating point tho. I’ll call that do as you would be done by 😉 and I’ll turn the other cheek.

Morality is taught like everything else.

Some say that Jesus was a teacher…
And wasn’t the point of the Samaritan story to illustrate that the current morality of the Jews at the time was skewed and introverted (against a backdrop of Roman subjugation )and that they needed to change

You cannot prove the absence of something – nice debating point tho. I’ll call that do as you would be done by and I’ll turn the other cheek.

So what do you base your ‘knowledge’ on?

<deleted – making the same point as CM>

Teh religions adopted existing morals. they did not create them

You sound like an expert on this TJ, so tell me, what were these atheist societies from which religions adopted their moral codes ?

Name them please.