Is the Labour Government about to wreck the environment ?

roli case

Lets look at my situation.  I moved to Edinburgh at age 30 in 1990 with nothing.  I took a job as a junior charge nurse.  Its important to me to live within muscle power of my work ( and saves the cost of a car – public transport is difficult from outside the city due to shift work)

I was then taking home £1200 pcm.  Rent was £400 pcm.  council tax £60 pcm.  I then bought the flat.  Mortgage £350 pcm, council tax £60, insurance £30.  I had a decent lifestyle and was able to save easily a £2500 deposit ( 4 months money after housing) Took a couple of years Either way housing costs well under 1/2 my earnings.  cash after monthly costs £750 a month  I could save £100 pcm for my deposit

Now for the same job I would be taking home £2200 pcm.  A similar flat would be £1300pcm rental  council tax £100.  Ok go for a cheaper flat – I really do not want to be sharing in my 30s and do not think that unreasonable ( even the tories did not in their benefits calculations agree- share up to 26 they decided IIRC)

So the cheaper flat is £1000 pcm rental, council tax is £100 pcm.  Half my monthly wage.   £1100 after housing costs  £1100 now has less buying power than £750 in 1990.   So the flat I did buy would now be £350 000.  Mortgage £1500 pcm, council tax £100, insurance £60 leaving me with £540 pcm.  £200 a month less than I had in 1990.  BUt now I need £17500 as a deposit  Thats 1.6 years cash after housing while renting a cheaper flat

Ok so buy a cheaper flat.  £200 000 could buy me a flat £1000 pcm mortgage so that would be £500 a month more to spend ie £1000 pcm after housing costs while buying and only need a £10 000 deposit so 10 months cash after housing costs.  How long do you think it would take to actually save £10 000 out of £1100 a month?  I reckon 8 years ( £100 pcm saved)

I could maybe go as low as £175000 to buy a flat now

so for the same job earning well above national average then I could either rent or buy a lovely flat without too much stretch.  Now doing the same job both renting and buying would be much more of a stretch for a much lessor flat – but the main barrier is a deposit which would take me 8 years to save for now compared to 2 years then and I would end up with a much lessor flat.

the fact of the matter really is I simply could not afford to take that job now.  I would have to go to a much lower cost area to have any sort of lifestyle while either renting or buying and that is earning well above national average wage

forgive me if I effed up the sums

Buying the flat I have now is simply impossible  Renting the same flat as I did would be very difficult

And why should they? They graduate with a mountain of debt, have sky high rent which makes it impossible to save, and will never have a decent pension. Faced with that it’s hardly surprising that some choose to live for the moment.

Since their elders have ensured that the planet will be unliveable when they reach pension age, and throw them in prison when they object, eating a bit of avocado toast seems a minimally reasonable reaction.

Why bother? You and others keep banging on how houses aren’t affordable anyway.

What price do you think these shit load of houses need to be to located to make them affordable and do you think that the land can be purchased and house built for that cost?

Houses built by the state are much cheaper with much cheaper rentals.   Rent controls reduce rental yeaild in private rentals.   This would cause a significant reduction over time in the cost of housing as the inflationary pressures would be much reduced and as buy to let landlords are forced to sell up.

We need a market crash really – a huge one but I would settle for flatlining house price inflation

@tjaagain I totally agree and think it’s indisputable that things are a lot harder now than they were in the past, especially before the mid 90’s which is when it seems house prices really started to take off.

I only bought my first house in 2018 when house prices as a multiple of incomes were more or less the same as they are now. It took me six years to save for the deposit while earning a below average salary and privately renting a low quality flat. So I think I’ve got a pretty good grasp on what’s realistically possible in the present day.

If building lots of houses on greenbelt outside Bolton and the like was really going to make everywhere less expensive then i’d be all for it. But I don’t think it will work. I think it’ll result in big cheap ghettos for the poor while the more expensive areas just continue rising in price to the point where they all become exclusive havens for the wealthy or those fortunate enough to have bought there already, much like parts of central London now. It will create more regional wealth inequality on top of the existing north/south split.

Not just a lot harder but impossible for many.  You must live in a low cost housing area if you could do that.

I’m not being harsh on bunnyhop, cos she’s lovely, so sorry if that’s how it came across.

I didn’t mean to be either. Sorry @bunnyhop if it came across that way. The attitudes of some on here (not you) are born of people completely unable to see how shite it is for young people or older folk starting on the property ladder later in life. They didn’t work harder, they just benefited from different circumstances.

This is a predominantly middle class, well educated place. The majority should realise life ain’t that simple for people living on minimum wage. There’s a reason there is a separate real living wage. That’s because the minimum wage is a travesty.

The attitudes of some on here (not you) are born of people completely unable to see how shite it is for young people or older folk starting on the property ladder later in life. They didn’t work harder, they just benefited from different circumstances

It’s the intentionally dismissive who have been encouraged to see it as a political standpoint. They believe homeless people are all fakers, young people are useless workshy layabouts and deny reality at every opportunity. So they can swagger round like billy big bollocks, lording it up. Talking about driving standards and pot holes as though they are the biggest political issues in this country.

In answer to the OP, the environment is already wrecked, birds in reduced numbers year on year, insects decimated both by insecticides and climate change, rivers polluted etc, etc. What the new legislation will do is wreck Labour’s chances in the forthcoming local elections and also the next general election. I speak as a (reluctant) Labour supporter but I’m afraid that they’ve seriously underestimated the opposition that there will be to the relaxation of the planning rules. According to an acquaintance of mine who does meet with Government departments occasionally they are totally naive about the opposition that they will meet, arrogantly laughing at opposition and talking of forcing people to accept the new regime. We have widespread opposition in North East Derbyshire to new electricity pylons so housing will meet even more! I think that the duplicity of Labour politicians has been exposed again, campaigns and causes they supported in opposition have been conveniently dropped now in power. Example below, connected to the planning rules, they campaigned against this sub-standard “housing” when in opposition and are now championing it as a solution….

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/dec/14/labour-condemned-for-allowing-new-generation-of-slum-homes-in-england?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

they’ve seriously underestimated the opposition that there will be to the relaxation of the planning rules. 

probably, its also true that there’s a growing number of people who will be very happy to see the NIMBY’s get wrecked