Is anyone actually opposed to legalisation of marijuana use?

There have been some interesting documentaries recently regarding the relaxation of legislation in certain US states and the booming industry that is springing up in its wake.

As far back as I can remember, Mary Jane, weed, pot, green (etc) has been a popular cultural reference and is implied to be largely socially acceptable and at worst, cause (over)users to turn a bit green around the gills.

Now scientific evidence that medical usage has a profound effect in reducing many symptoms and improving quality of life for many – why is the UK still reluctant to legislate its use? In fact, I was in Amsterdam this weekend and happened to accidentally passively inhale plumes of what I presume was marijuana smoke – and the resulting effects on easing of tension to my jaw (a common issue for me) and reduction in anxiety was quite something to experience.

My personal view is that we live in a society where alcohol is an accepted and legal form of getting completely wasted for millions every week, therefore it’s beyond strange that a drug such as sensi is considered dangerous and to be banned.

Will we see legalisation in the U.K. Or is this subject still too taboo?

There’s also strong medical evidence of it causing psychological issues in predisposed users?

I’ve no problem with the old style did but the skunk type stuff is the meths drinking end of the spectrum to continue the alcohol analogies.

Give it a generation. Older people vote and a lot of them vote Conservative. They would not vote for a party with a pro decriminalisation policy. I imagine that will change in a decade or two in terms of a shift in the demographic (older people dying).

The SNP have already debated the use of Marijuana for medicinal purposes. I expect it to be included in some future legislation at Holyrood. As for general use I think the jury is still out on the pros and cons – i.e. there’s plenty of evidence on both sides of the debate. Until that becomes more one-sided I can’t see things changing. What’s interesting to me is that it’s now been around long enough that a significant portion of the public and our lawmakers must have first-hand experience and yet it remains a classified drug.

Interesting about the older people… do the ones who are currently not quite old just get more conservative as they get to be old codgers?

I’ve noticed my parents’ politics get more conservative after retirement

Waswas – I should imagine there are many alcoholics suffering with debilitating mental and physical effects of plain old Famous Grouse / Gordon’s Gin without resorting to drinking meths.

I’d also imagine that a kid bought up on 12hrs per day of Call of Duty / GTA is as likely to suffer some kind of mental aggravation as a skunk smoker.
There are dozens of analogies to be had, but the fact is that nearly any substance/input will cause you physical harm if used excessively.

Personally I wouldn’t advocate legalising for recreational use.

I think tobacco and alcohol are a poor comparative measure too. If invented now I’m not convinced they’d be allowed but 100s of years of consumption and industry built around them ensures their continued legality and in the case of many they are enjoyed in relative moderation to no long term harm to the individual. I’ve also seen lives ruined by booze and drugs.

I don’t smoke but enjoy the odd beer.

There are iirc links (or suggestions of links) to psychotic illness associated with some of the more pungent cannabis strains too, along with effects on short term memory. Those risks might be worthwhile to alleviate medical symptoms of something else but in addition to booze and fags personally I think it would be a step the wrong way.

This country doesn’t need more people who are incapable through drugs, legalised or not. There’s also the risks around driving and roadside testing etc.

As for the COD/GTA analogy I’m sure you are right that this would have that effect too but just because there’s one (or 2 or 3) options to mess people up I don’t see that offering another isnt going to make exacerbate it further.

^^^ As above. Ban it.

Slimjim78 – no doubt. And would it be legalised if we knew that was a probable outcome for some users and alcohol was currently a banned drug?

I wouldn’t go classing this as a generational thing, it was legal until 1928, prescribable after that until 1971, and the literal poster boy for the drug, Bob Marley would be 71 this year.

My personal view is that we live in a society where alcohol is an accepted and legal form of getting completely wasted for millions every week, therefore it’s beyond strange that a drug such as sensi is considered dangerous and to be banned.

I don’t think it’s any more harmful than alcohol, although admittedly the effect it has on me now is not pleasant (paranoia etc.), but not really sure Britain needs *another* easily accessible recreational drug to choose from…

edit: pretty much what garage_dweller said

Yes, because we should be trusted to make our own minds up and behave responsibly.

If cars were invented now, or planes, we wouldn’t ban them because death by crashing would be a certain outcome for some, would we?

Not sure, I can see strong arguments for decriminalisation but at the same time have first hand experience of friends who’ve really lost there way from using.

My personal view is that we live in a society where alcohol is an accepted and legal form of getting completely wasted for millions every week, therefore it’s beyond strange that a drug such as sensi is considered dangerous and to be banned.

It’s not strange at all. It’s banned because it’s a danger; weed expands your mind man; you can see the world for what it really is. The establishment are scared.

People demonstrably cannot behave responsibly.

Why not just legalise all medical and recreational drugs to be available to all? Because no one imagines it would end well.

Also it’s always the criminals who are in-charged.

Ban it.

People demonstrably cannot behave responsibly

Governement isn’t there to assume we are all inherently bad and not to be trusted, society by and large is responsible – protecting it from the mindless minority is a real responsibility

15 years ago I would’ve voted to legalise it. With hindsight now, I i definitely wouldn’t.

Yes, because we should be trusted to make our own minds up and behave responsibly.

But where do you draw the line? There is a balance between freedom of choice and the needs of society as a whole.

The law (amongst other things) is not just there to punish but to protect those who are vulnerable to making crap choices.

At one end anarchy and no social structure at the other totalitarianism.

Somewhere in the middle is where I believe we mostly want to live.

@davidtaylforth

On form this evening I see.

Sort of backs up my point. Any reason (apart from just being older) that you’ve changed your mind?

@davidtaylforth

On form this evening I see.

😀

Stoner’s hyperbole.

There’s definitely some truth in it though.

We’re losing billions in tax, spending billions on enforcement, criminalising otherwise law-abiding citizens and helping plenty of dangerous people get rich. What exactly are we, as a society, getting in return?

15 years ago I would’ve voted to legalise it. With hindsight now, I i definitely wouldn’t.

Interesting. What changed your opinion?

But where do you draw the line?

Good question. Probably not at a green herb that makes most people relax, giggle and fall asleep.
If I were to draw the line there, I’d be putting MUCH tighter alcohol laws in place first.

I wouldn’t legalise it for general use. We are in the slow process of making smoking tobacco illegal or at least prohibitively expensive and hidden from general sale.

Certainly there are arguments for medicinal use/studies but if there is no profit in it then most big pharma companies won’t be interested in pursuing it.

Alcohol is accepted but it would be naive to assume that there are no issues caused by it.

The only arguments for making it generally legal are down to control of supply/quality and removing the profits for criminals.

The criminals will be the first to dominate the market as they are already experts in this field.

It would be like wolves among sheep happy days for the criminals.

The real issue is the war on drugs has failed and is causing untold harm. compare the UKs experience with drugs with the Netherlands and Portugal

~there is no doubt cannabis smoking causes harm across populations – perhaps the most harmful effect is it often gets you addicted to tobacco as well but in itself it must be damaging to the lungs. there is an association with mental illness but what that is is most unclear. Do people predisposed to mental illness smoke more cannabis? Can it act as a trigger in vulnerable people or is it a direct cause?

Certainly the ill effects tho are less harmful to society that other drugs both legal and illegal. NO pot smoker goes out and starts fights or robs houses to pay for their drugs. They just sit on the sofa and spout rubbish and become very boring indeed.

As richpenny above states – prohibition causes many problems and has failed

Good question. Probably not at a green herb that makes most people relax, giggle and fall asleep.

So, hypothetically (obviously…) why does the effect change over time, has the drug changed or is there a tolerance or something? I have a friend who used to get relaxed and giggly then fall asleep who now just gets very paranoid and introverted and quiet, which is why he’s now very bitter and thinks it should remain illegal since he doesn’t enjoy it any more 🙄

The only arguments for making it generally legal are down to control of supply/quality and removing the profits for criminals.

They are quite compelling arguments though, plus you’ve forgotten the criminalisation of about 10% of the population. There’s also removing it as a gateway drug. And if you gave people an alternative to alcohol you could reduce some of the massive social and health issues it causes.

The criminals will be the first to dominate the market as they are already experts in this field.
It would be like wolves among sheep happy days for the criminals.

No they wouldn’t.

They wouldn’t stand a chance against a legitimate and legal supply.

They would be out of business almost straight away.

Its really about the votes, irrespective of party, TBH If your MP sees getting weed decriminalized as a more important issue than housing, EU trade, Health, Education, Policing, the rising cost of living or any of the hundred more pressing issues facing the country, I wouldn’t expect them to be re-selected by their party at the next GE, nor would I vote for such a clown… Which major parties actually even bother to cover the concerns of stoner’s in their current manifestos?

But mainly are the public clamoring for another “legal narcotic”?
The truth is most seem happy enough with Booze, Fags, Vaping and the Bake off, do they need yet another escape from this dreary old world? probably not…

Interestingly, the US is way ahead of us on this. Wandering around the Bay Area it’s obvious how many people grow a few plants for their own medicinal use and the number of ads for medicinal marijuana shows how accepted it is. It’s legal for recreational use in Colorado, Oregon and Washington (and, i think, soon California). There are simply no cogent arguments against legalisation.

(My personal stance is that every drug should be decriminalised but that’s another discussion.)

Given that my user name doesn’t make me anonymous I wouldn’t really want to say too much, but basically I used to smoke, a lot, and loved it. Thought it was great. Eventually realised that actually, I’d wasted several years of my life. I’ve seen the negative psychological effects in action and it definitely becomes a gateway drug.

I don’t think it’s really bad or evil or anything, and I’m not saying it ruined my life, I just don’t think it’s harmless and there’s better ways of spending your time. (All personal opinion of course)

Total non-argument. Why is it illegal? I’ve yet to see a convincing argument. I’ve had mates with bipolar parents go mad on the stuff (pre-existing latent psychosis) but on the whole, it’s a shitload better than a half bottle of spirits and a four pack of Stella.

Pretty sure the US states which have legalised it are making a pretty penny from taxing the stuff and as TJ has pointed out, the Portuguese method has worked out well for all concerned. I’ve banged on about this before so won’t dig out all the stats about reduced crime and lives saved again.

important issue than housing, EU trade, Health, Education, Policing,

All of that boring stuff becomes a lot less important once you’re baked off your cake though.

I lost my way through cannabis use, and have only really not royally **** up my life through being from a middle class background with parents who’ve been able to support me while I’ve got straightened out again, and put the effort into finding different people for me to go and see to get help me get straight again, but despite all that, I’m thinking the only way to really get a handle on what it can do to people, and to reduce any harm to society from it being criminalised, I’m thinking it possibly should be legal as a way of stopping criminal gangs from making money from it’s supply, and maybe even as a way of regulating the strengths of different strains of cannabis available to buy if that would be possible – by having grass easier to buy again rather than skunk being the main product which criminals sell due to the higher profits, and aiming to control at what ages people start to smoke it too.

If I didn’t have the fortunate background I do, I might have a different perspective though, from being in a darker place still.

I’ve noticed my parents’ politics get more conservative after retirement

Oddly, I’ve noticed the reverse with mine. Having long held fairly 1950s-ish views my whole life they’re now much more reasoned after retirement: pro-EU, pro-immigration, pro-legalisation, perhaps even pro-gay marriage (or at least not anti…).

damaging to the lungs.

Is about the worst side effect to smoking neat weed. I also believe (and was chuffed when I recently heard it expressed by a pro on the subject* as I’d claimed this about 15 years ago) it isn’t good for young minds to consume psychoactive stuff until at least 18 – 20 years old. Or at least until a semi-firm (fnarr) sense of self can be achieved.

* Alpin’s thread if anyone is interested; the podcast link.

This country doesn’t need more people who are incapable through drugs

but does it make you incapable of performing everyday tasks? in my experience, no…

last time i was incapable of riding my bike after having a smoke i had drunk 3 1ltr krugs of strong Bavarian beer beforehand…. did those 3 beers inhibit my decision to have a smoke? yes.

remember… grass dann bier, das rat ich dir. bier dann grass, du kotz.
(grass then beer, i recommend it. beer then grass, you’ll be sick)

cannabis has been used for as long as, if not longer than, alcohol. the same goes for opium and cocoa leaves.

if the government was to legalise it then it could to an extent (as it is relatively easy to grow at home) control the supply and therefore reap the tax revenue.

i’ve been “weed free” for three months now. this is possibly the longest i’ve not had a smoke in about 18 years. i don’t feel any better for it. i’m now not suddenly more productive at work. my mood hasn’t changed (according to the GF she has noticed no change in me).

there are plenty of fuctioning stoners just as there functioning alcoholics, coke heads and heroin users. the drug itself isn’t the problem, rather the user.

i would vote to legalise it. think how much quieter the town centre would be on a weekend.

although these adverts from New Zealand make you think. drug driving is obviously a big problem there….

frosty pigs! hahahaha