The whole point about democracy is that governments do things that are popular

Surely it’s about voting the side in that the voters believe will do the right thing? Or we’d vote on everything and wouldn’t infact have a government.

Poly – something needs to be done for sure

second jobs, non exec directorships ( bribe by another name) should certainly be not allowed – being an MP is a full time job and the number of MPs who give juicy contracts to firms then join them after the next election or even before for huge sums is disgusting.

Westminster is highly corrupt just the corruption is legalised and normalised

Kwarteng took a huge sum from an energy company wanting to put in a cross channel cable and is now promoting them relentlessly – thats outright corruption

large numbers of tory mps have taken money from private health firms – trust them to be impartial?

@molgrips

I passed no comment about whether I thought their methods would work, or are the correct way to go about it.

I’m simply explaining that contrary to popular opinion they are not trying to ‘get support’ they are trying to ‘cause a fuss’.

Arguably, that is working…

joshvegas
Free Member
The whole point about democracy is that governments do things that are popular

Surely it’s about voting the side in that the voters believe will do the right thing? Or we’d vote on everything and wouldn’t infact have a government.

If you have 5 years in power then you have 4 years of not worrying too much about unpopular stuff, more often you do stuff that’s unpopular to then fund the vote winning policies in the last year before an election.

I don’t think this government are that bothered about being popular at present, they’re living rent free just now as the opposition are useless and disjointed.

You think people are going to watch the news footage of people blocking roads and go ‘oh actually yes I must get my house insulated or lobby my MP for a grant?’

They are not trying to get people to insulate their own homes, they are trying to get government to plan, fund and legislate to:

– first insulate social housing projects
– then update privately rented and owner occupied homes

They want to keep those demands in the public eye. As soon as they end their campaign, the idea will be swept aside. They have to keep on. And they have to disrupt normal life. Or they won’t be heard. And we can argue about their dates, but what they are calling for is exactly what the government needs to do, rather than wash its hand of the insulating question.

Slightly OT but am I the only one to notice the special brand of STW hypocrisy at play in this thread. Yes the driver is a dick but attacking the way she looks would have a lot of posters wringing their hands and virtual crying in most other threads. Why’s it okay here? Christ I’ve seen people jumping to Priti Patel’s defence when people bring up her appearance.

Did someone bring up her appearance?

I missed it amongst the 7 pages to wandering off topic…
I’ll admit to being more interested in her actions than her appearance.

Did someone bring up her appearance?

Several times. Don’t see what bearing it has on being a complete ****. They come in all shapes, sizes, colours and genders. The wonderful diverse world of dickheadom

The architecture of the northern hemisphere evolved to meet the human need for shelter and heat, every building is defined by its energy era, from early hovel with a hearth for wood, to Georgian and Victorian buildings designed around coal, or more recently modern housing designed to be powered by oil and gas, the energy source for heat the building contains, our biggest energy consumption, defines the building, all of them combustible, and all of them now classed as an environmental problem.
Gas filled the gap, gas can cost effectively heat a house designed for coal, now that gas is on the wind down what are the alternatives?
Electricity is our other big energy but is hugely expensive to heat with unless the building is designed to contain it, the job of adapting a traditional Victorian house designed for coal, or the average modern flat or semi designed for gas is a big and hugely expensive one, in some cases close to the rebuild cost of the house, the task of adapting tens of millions of them probably beyond possible in reality.
Yet the transition from gas..to something..is apparently the UK’s next stage in meeting the governments pledge on lowering carbon emissions, the result can only be very expensive and rising gas bills in the short term, and possibly freezing to death in the longer term for those that can’t afford to strip their house out and reinsulate.
The current British government was elected on a manifesto promise of £9.2bn for energy-efficient buildings, yet Rishi Sunak’s Green Homes Grants announced in 2020 was scrapped after six months, after low uptake and poor administration, and a year has now passed since the government promised to publish its ‘Heat and Buildings Strategy’, it would appear this is not top of anyone’s agenda.
Putting it all together we will at some point have to face the problem, possibly the biggest domestic infrastructure project in the UK’s history, acting now could make it less painful.

How do you alert people to this?

They have certainly upped the pressure, turning the public against them via news outlets. Hardly a new tactic is it!

“I’m just going work mate these jobless layabouts stopping emergency vehicles”. I’ve heard the emergency vehicles thing used to justify all parking restrictions and this isn’t the first protest where the general public are encouraged to view them as pond life/jobless layabouts stopping them getting to work.

See when Labour polices are discussed and they get jobless musicians (on the news only a few weeks ago) and single mothers on benefits to give their opinions. They know full well, it will send a good proportion of working class voters into a head spinning rage, throwing their slippers at the telly!

SWAMPY HAS ENTERED THE CHAT…

Busted…

tj – don’t get me wrong I’m 100% with you that something needs to be done; just possibly not an outright ban. To me the obvious solution would be to make it a judicial decision that has two parts:

1. If there is a perception of possible bias / unfairness then the person can be forced out of the post.
2. If there is actual proof of misconduct then criminal offence.

Of course the gov would never allow those pesky judges to get involved.

(Whilst many people might perceive judges to be part of the elite and liable to be “in on it”, I think in the UK they are actually pretty good at knowing when there may be either an actual or perceived risk of bias and recusing themselves so would likely be able to apply that logic to others well).

@g5604

Good points – but we could start by having a maximum donation limit and not just trusting the parties to do the right thing. There are clear conflicts of interests happening all the time and the electoral commission is toothless.

Yes I’d not be opposed to that (although the thing about max donations is the sneaky people find ways to circumvent. I will donate, my wife will donate, my son will donate, my ltd co will donate – now we have 4x the max donation!… Personally I’d (1) make ALL donations public (name and town of every donor). (2) make all companies, and non-incorporated organisation list their donations publically – like employers have to for gender pay stuff etc.

Well yes, it’s a full time job. MP pay is less than most lawyers and doctors and they should be closer to the coal face dealing with their constituents.

I wouldn’t tell that to a junior doctor or legal aid solicitor! I’m not suggesting professionals would remain involved in their specialism for the cash – I’m suggesting that being involved in 2021’s health situation or courts crisis gives a very different insight to having been involved 15 years ago when you first got elected.

No reason a doctor could not go back to their day job,

no easy if you’ve not treated a patient for 10 yrs!

but taking a board position at a private company that got awarded a nhs contract during their tenure, no. Every politician should have a blacklist of companies they can not work for.

In principle I agree – but is that all MP’s or only those in government? or only those in ministerial positions? or only those in ministerial positions in depts that were linked to that contract? What if its a £100M company that got a £50k contract and it had been getting those sort of contracts for the last 20 years. There’s so much nuance around individual people, contracts, roles that I’m not convinced a blanket ban makes sense. I think there is already a committee that looks at these things – but they are a bunch of other MPs which is like asking teenagers to grade their own exams!

Slightly OT but am I the only one to notice the special brand of STW hypocrisy at play in this thread. Yes the driver is a dick but attacking the way she looks would have a lot of posters wringing their hands and virtual crying in most other threads. Why’s it okay here? Christ I’ve seen people jumping to Priti Patel’s defence when people bring up her appearance.

No @funkmasterp you are not the only one to spot it and think FFS – but you might be the first to have called it out. I’m just as amazed at the number of people who seem to condone her driving though.

Yes the driver is a dick but attacking the way she looks would have a lot of posters wringing their hands and virtual crying in most other threads. Why’s it okay here?

Her behaviour, for me, is ugly enough to warrant removal of any respect, and there are times when saying you disapprove just doesn’t vent what is deserved.

So calling someone a fat slag is acceptable if you very strongly disapprove of their behaviour?

I thought calling someone a fat slag always signified disapproval?

Middle-class liberal sensibilities can be hard to fathom sometimes.

So calling someone a fat slag is acceptable if you very strongly disapprove of their behaviour?

I didn’t, that would be you adjusting the context, I said that in the absence of being able to do or say anything human frustrations will leak, and I’m not going to get all PC in her defense.

I’m not going to get all PC in her defense

So it would appear….. something about human frustration leaking, apparently.

I have no idea what you mean about me “adjusting the context” btw.

I was aware that it wasn’t you who referred to her as a fat slag, I was responding to your justification of using that description.

Edit : Actually I can’t remember precisely who used the term fat slag and I can’t be bothered to trawl through to check. So I’m simply assuming it wasn’t you.

still need to flay for holidays

@tjagain I thought we discussed kink shaming.

No @funkmasterp you are not the only one to spot it and think FFS – but you might be the first to have called it out. I’m just as amazed at the number of people who seem to condone her driving though.

I spotted it but the mood of the thread made me think pointing it out wouldn’t go down well.

If you have to resort to personal insults to support your arguments, take a couple of minutes to think it through a bit more. Of all the things to criticise her for……

the GPS in range rovers is obviously rubbish. Coundnt find an alternative route? deary me.

I’m much more aware of the need for houses to be insulated now thanks to these protests.

lolz @: squirrelking

From the headlines today.

This is the sort of thing we’re up against:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58982445

This is the sort of thing that governments can do, and which protestors in the UK are trying to push for:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/21/new-zealand-becomes-first-country-to-force-finance-companies-to-act-on-climate-risks

The problem needs macro solutions. Only governments can do this. We as UK citizens can only influence our government, not China’s.

Our government could become an international model, both practically and morally. But the opposite has happened.

Look at this thread.

It’s depressing. We’re a bunch of cyclists, we all love the outdoors – and we’re sitting here bickering among ourselves about what, exactly? How come we can’t agree?

We’re hopeless. (Humans, I mean.)

Of all the things to criticise her for……

And all the more so as her weight management issues didn’t appear particularly severe.

I have no idea about her promiscuity though. Presumably that reference was based on her being a woman.

Hook, line and sinker. You’ve swallowed all the narrative. If you were talking about the Tory party and their lobby group mates you might have a point.

What ‘narrative’? It was a valid question. I am 100% sympathetic to the reasons why IB are protesting, just not supportive of their actions. And regarding the right to protest; we have an increasingly nasty government who really don’t want anyone protesting at all, and will try to push all sorts of new legislation to prevent this; oh look, they are.

https://www.bigissue.com/news/activism/how-priti-patels-new-policing-bill-threatens-your-right-to-protest/

All they need, is for public opinion to swing against such protests, and they’ll have their ‘support’. Should we allow such a tiny minority to wilfully cause damage to what rights we have left? That’s a question.

I believe this to be a load of wheelbarrow content, if you’re moving bull manure from one place to another, in a wheelbarrow.

Many people were adversely economically affected by XR protests, people who are already on low incomes and cannot afford to lose money or even their jobs. This is a fact. I personally know several people who were affected in such a manner; multiply that across a city the size of London, and you have an awful lot of people affected. So; you might chose to ignore this fact, but that’s your privilege. And that’s the key thing here; privilege. If you can afford to take time off work/give up your job to protest what is truly a vital issue, then more power to you. But if your actions are negatively impacting on people who enjoy less privilege than yourself, then you have to stop and reconsider what you are doing. Because ignoring them just sends the message that they don’t matter, that them losing money/work is inconsequential. Trouble is; who then does all those jobs YOU rely on? Yes. That.

Even XR themselves thought such tactics were counter-productive:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/20/extinction-rebellion-tube-protest-was-a-mistake

To be fair its always nice when your stereotypes are confirmed. Brash unnecessary car, driven by brash obnoxious woman.

When I first watch the clip I genuinely though she said: “I need to take my son to school he’s illiterate” and my initial reaction was “well that fit’s”

I was really disappointed when I watched it again and it turned out “illiterate” was “eleven”

fit’s

Oh dear 😐

If you can afford to take time off work/give up your job to protest

My friend, who is braver than I am, cannot afford to lose her job.

But she gave up her own holiday time to protest, which ended up with her in the cells (the coppers were sympathetic, by the way, but had their job to do).

Because of the nature of her job, she very nearly lost it – but was upfront and honest with her bosses, who allowed her to stay.

I couldn’t have done that, but I’m glad there are people like her who are strong enough to prioritise one thing over another.

This thread is full of people talking in absolutes. We’re probably all right, in some degree and from some angle.

Arguing from different poles doesn’t get us anywhere.

Yes, some protests are probably counter-productive. That doesn’t mean that positive action is the wrong choice, when all other avenues of protest have been removed or proven useless.

And, actually, if we’re going to fix this problem, we need to get used to the idea that an awful lot of jobs are going to be lost. We find that hard to stomach.

But I think we’ll all find complete climate breakdown a lot harder to get along with.

Regarding comments about the driver of the 4×4;I’ve done a quick skim of what I consider to be sexist, misogynist, body-shaming etc type comments on this thread, that really have absolutely no place on a forum that claims inclusivity and clearly states:

No posts, including links to other sites that are deemed to be of a sexual or distasteful nature, incite racial or sexist behaviour or are in any way discriminatory and/or offensive towards individuals or minority groups.

Yet, we have:

silly cow

Fat cow

‘slag antlers’. Love ’em

self entitled bint

obnoxious cow

The creature (typical Chafford Hundred mum)

cuprinol-tanned, fat-arsed harpies with fake nails, tits and Range Rovers – who would rather burn every hydrocarbon on earth than give up their hair straighteners / facial saunas / patio heaters

Fat cow

Bet shes even got ‘Blessed’ written across her arse crack . bit stretched now as she has developed big bone syndrome

To be fair she was well insulated, in a let’s rethink stretch clothing sort of way.

chubby chav

I’m sure there were others that have either been edited or removed, or perhaps I’ve missed some. Any need for any of that? I don’t think so. Such comments, judgment and attitudes simply diminish a person’s own arguments, and add nothing to the debate. Sure; the individual in the video doesn’t appear to be a particularly nice person in that instance, but that doesn’t excuse the abuse levelled at her on here or anywhere. Can we continue without shit like this, please? The forum might be a slightly nicer place if we did.

Yes, some protests are probably counter-productive. That doesn’t mean that positive action is the wrong choice

I’d call this more like negative action 🙂

Can we continue without shit like this, please? The forum might be a slightly nicer place if we did.

100% agree. I realised on the Brexit thread that a lot of remainers weren’t much better than leavers, just petty tribalism, whining about what you want and flinging insults at the other side because you’re annoyed. Being on the right side doesn’t apparently make you a good person.

I’m not trying to win anyone over, I’m just taking the piss out of someone who is a ringer for a Viz character – back in the days when we could laugh at ‘ourselves’.

Taking the positives from the Range Rover driver – she has obviously taken serious steps to insulate her buttocks and thighs, so maybe she is already doing her bit.

And I don’t care what you make of that comment.

🤷‍♂️

Similarly, I called her a fat cow.

Tbh I’m pissed off at the number of biffers around that are entitled, selfish, anti-mask, lazy, know all ****.

Mrs ward is full of them none of which seem to want to do anything to help their situations, it’s everyone else’s fault, and the NHS should fix them.

It’s not normally my nature to call her a cow, but **** it, I don’t really care about people who have zero respect themselves.

And I don’t care what you make of that comment.

Singletrack’s been infiltrated by the Proud Boys!

I’ve done a quick skim of what I consider to be sexist, misogynist, body-shaming etc type comments on this thread, that really have absolutely no place on a forum that claims inclusivity

Good work, and +1

Words matter, and I hope the mods think so too. Some people might have earned a quiet talking to I think.

Doubtless the paranoid anti-PC brigade would start going on about ‘freedom of speech’ etc; we shouldn’t let ignorance erode forum standards of behaviour.

And I don’t care what you make of that comment.

Perhaps the moderators will.

Similarly, I called her a fat cow.

Tbh I’m pissed off at the number of biffers around that are entitled, selfish, anti-mask, lazy, know all ****.

Mrs ward is full of them none of which seem to want to do anything to help their situations, it’s everyone else’s fault, and the NHS should fix them.

It’s not normally my nature to call her a cow, but **** it, I don’t really care about people who have zero respect themselves.

So much judgment; so little self-awareness.

Perhaps the moderators will.

Maybe.

Depends if people employ ‘telling tales’ as a tactic to ‘win’.

I’m not a big fan of the “Sir, sir, he just called Sharon a biffer” tendency, but I guess some people are.

In life – if you act like an entitled arsehole you deserve to be pilloried along whatever lines are available. Anything else is just a bit, well, snowflaky.

Words matter, and I hope the mods think so too. Some people might have earned a quiet talking to I think.

Indeed I made a comment that wasn’t very nice, it got removed and I got my wrist slapped. (again)..sorry god’s/mods… They do a difficult job well mostly, I think…

I made a comment that wasn’t very nice, it got removed and I got my wrist slapped.

In your defence I reckon what can happen is that we sometimes forget that we are on a public forum with a multitude of complete strangers, consequenctly we can end up talking in the same manner as we do when we are with a couple mates.

That has certainly been an issue for me in the past with sweary posts that have earned me bans.