inspired by shed threads, do you think its possible for…..

You could, but equally you can have them all in line.

how mate? cant get my head around best way of arranging the posts, 4×2 ring beams and intermediate struts to make strongest structure.

the ony way i can see of having 4×2 nailed all the way outside the posts and have the struts inline with the 4×2 is by actually nailing more struts up the side of the posts too for the cladding to nail to. which firstly i dont think would look as good, and secondly wouldnt actually make it any stronger, in effect id just be pushing the cladding out a little. make sense?

You can sit the ring beam on top of the studs.

I wouldn’t worry too much about strength. Once everything is up and the cladding is on you’ll have a box like structure and it’s hard not to have a strong box.

thats how ive been thinking itd be originally, floor beam nailed to outside of posts, roof beam above it and studs/struts in between the two, fastened with 4 angle clips, 2 top and bottom. all in line.
but….. then if im cladding the outside, theres no post at the end to nail onto as the cladding is 2″ off the posts.

or….. i could clad the inside of the gazebo instead (my preferred look as all posts and struts would be invisible) but then the cladding would be butting up to the side of the post with nothing to tack onto at the end.

EDIT: i spose all this can be sorted later on, can we all agree that the length of gazebo cannot be any more than 4.8m as this will be the length of the decking plank that will be the front of the floor section? end of?
so the distance between posts will definitely have to be 4.8, minus 4″ (100mm), minus the thickness of two decking boards (used to finish the edges by being placed vertically)
so the whole length of the gazebo floor on view will be 30mm/4.74m/30mm to add up to 4.8 on the surface.

I haven’t read through the entire thread so don’t know if anyone’s mentioned it – the size quoted for most timber is nominal; 100mm x 50mm is more like 96mm x 47mm.

yeah i saw that whilst looking for sizes, seems strange. i just assumed 47 x 100 was 4 be 2 cos its near as dammit, but i couldnt understand why they also had 2 be 2 listed as 50 x 47.

as promised, heres the first progress shot. 3 posts in, my mate hasnt been able to come over to help yet so im trying to do what i can where im fairly sure im not making a booboo…….

frustrating as im at work again tomorrow for a few days, so i wont be able to do any more now til friday.

todays questions……

1. when i start constructing the floor ring beam and support joists, can they lay directly onto my concrete slab (left of the site), or will they need raising slightly to avoid damp? itd be easier if i could work straight off the concrete but if i have to raise it ill need to work out a way of supporting it in various places just an inch or so off the slab.
certainly to the right of the site where the grounds lower and uneven ill need support at the right height. the suggestion earlier in the thread of postal tubes filled with concrete may be the right answer but id rather build it first, see where i want the supports and how high, then sort it.

2. mcmoonter suggested using nails for all my 4×2 beams which im happy to do. member of family has told me he can get me a load of 4″ screws tho, so if cost isnt an issue are screws a better bet?
i assume whether its nails or screws, 4″ is the right length, to go through 2″ thick beam and into a 4×4 post?

3. 4″ screws will be big old bits of metal. i assume id have to drill pilot holes for each one? would i have to drill pilot holes for nails too or just bang em in?

thanks

EDIT: i realise my posts arent going in in the right order, id be better off with the big oblong first and then put my side posts in to match, but my other 2 end posts to the left of pic will be postcreted in and im loathe to do this without the nod from my ‘project manager’ 🙂

4. just pricing up roofing materials, can someone explain this to me please? onduline sheets.

sizes show its nearly 2m x 1m yet coverage says 855mm. dont know whether thats sq metres or what, and how somwthing 2×1 can have a coverage of less than 1.

5. an earlier post on this thread suggested that it may sag if not put on OSB or something. if i have a pent roof and it slopes backwards, youll only ever see the inside material of the roof, so itd be pointless using onduline. so i think my choice is either onduline or OSB, not both.
id prefer onduline but itll depend on the answer to Q4 ^^^ 🙂

6. never seen shiplap up close so im going on google pics here, but am i right in thinking the profile allows a fair manipulation for different widths? so i could overlap them by more or less to fit into whatever gap i have?

855mm allows for 15mm (? 3 corrogations of overlap), the length will give 1985mm if overlapping. If using it make sure you support it as per manufacturers spec otherwise expect it to sag if you skimp on supports.

6. never seen shiplap up close so im going on google pics here, but am i right in thinking the profile allows a fair manipulation for different widths? so i could overlap them by more or less to fit into whatever gap i have?

Depends. The cheaper stuff is just tapered board so you can vary the overlap. Most has a machined lip so one board sits on another with a built in overlap. A table saw comes in handy for the last board or you can just overlap it in a casually bodged way. It’s a shed. Nobody but you will ever notice… Just as long as it doesn’t keep you up at night knowing what you’ve done…

thanks chaps, very helpful, should be able to work out an exact price from that. is there any reason the onduline needs 3 ‘corrugations’ overlap? if width was tight can you get away with 2 you reckon?

also any takers for Q’s 1-3?

cheers

If the slab isn’t usually under water you’re fine to lay them on top.

Screws are preferable to nails generally. 4″ will be fine,

It depends on the screws if you need to drill first. I always buy screws you don’t need to drill (timber screws rather than wood screws). It more than doubles the amount of work having to pilot drill holes. You won’t need to pilot drill for 4″ nails (6″ you probably would have to).

Ah didn’t know there were different types of screw, wood and timber. Thanks a lot, much appreciated

struggling for help with my shed at the mo as my mate cant make the days i can. was hoping we’d have a good day at it friday but now looks like ill be on me own. i may have to do more of this myself than i thought!!

with that in mind, i may have to sort out the roof ring beam myself. floor ring sort of sorts itself out i hope, but not sure how high or what angle to do the roof. ive pretty much decided cost will dictate itll be a pent roof, either covered in OSB plus felt, or onduline with nothing underneath.
if i had to make a guess id say make the 4×2 ring 7ft at the front, and 6ft at the back. ive nothing to back up these sizes, ive plucked them out the air.

any comments on this please?

thanks

Where are you based?

Edit : Also…

either covered in OSB plus felt

I’d go for EPDM over felt every time.

im in lincoln mate. and ill look into EPDM, havent heard of that so far.

thanks 🙂

If you can get a gap between concrete and beam, airflow always helps. Just space it up temporarily with off cuts to get it level, then fix.

Think my shed at home uses 150mm self pilotting screws and I shoved coach bolts in because I had them.

Do put enough supports in for the onduline. Mine sags a little as I am about 6″ over stretched due to being too lazy to grab another timber from the barn when nearly done. That said, it’s fine. Height wise it probably goes from 7′-6′. Not a lot was measured, just used bits of timber as templates.

Finally, there is no consistency in timber measurements. We cut 4 different lengths of 6′ for different buyers, and sell by weight, volume or hoppus and it will all be summarised as something else for easy invoicing.

If you can get a gap between concrete and beam, airflow always helps. Just space it up temporarily with off cuts to get it level, then fix.

doh, that had been a comfort to me thinking ive already got my support, my concretes level, bobs yer uncle :-/ you say space it up temporarily then fix. ok but surely i need permanent support underneath too in various intersections? i cant have a 5m X 3m floor all unsupported surely, just fixed on with 2 x 4″ nails/screws at the ends of each joist??

Do put enough supports in for the onduline.

yep, will do. if each sheet is roughly 1m wide im guessing every half metre then?

Finally, there is no consistency in timber measurements.

thats scares me a little, im sizing this up to suit supplied timber sizes. dont mind if theyre a bit too long but itd be a disaster if they were too short!

thanks

im in lincoln

Ah, okay. A few counties too far.

Good luck with the build. Enjoy it – carpentry is good for the ‘soul’.

thanks for even considering helping, much appreciated, some great people on here. makes me think i may just get it built one way or another 🙂

bring on friday!

You’ve got uprights every metre and a bit to fix it to. Mine is about 4.5m span, just attached to corner posts. Admittedly it’s a 6×2 and I had to jack it and put in a prop at the front (sloping site) after it sagged a bit under the weight of an old barn door and a couple of double glazing units, but you have far more posts to attach to and share the load.

The corrugations should be square to the supports, nail through the highpoint of the corrugation. 50cm sounds like the figure off the spec sheet I ignored.

i rested my flooring joists on bricks (spaced at 1 foot centres) to allow a little more airflow. Think they’re 30p each or something. cheap and solid.

for screws i’m using decking screws for longer reaches, and external zinc plated screws for shorter (turbogold xts) – ie fixing the cladding. someone will probably be along to tell me they’re wrong, but theyre cheap enough to use lots 🙂 impact driver meant I didn’t need to pre-drill anything

out of interest, what are the clamps for? my sheds nearly done and I haven’t used a single one yet..

out of interest, what are the clamps for? my sheds nearly done and I haven’t used a single one yet..

i havent been able to get hold of any yet but i can see why theyd be useful, especially if ill be working on my own a fair bit. i envisage a 4.8m length of wood, clamped at each end onto the posts, me sticking a level on it and then going from side to side tapping up or down to suit. then screwing into place.
or even clamping both sides (so 4 clamps) and ensuring the bit thatll go between them will be right length, level etc.

with that in mind im gonna see how much 4 clamps are today in B&Q/screwfix etc…..

decided im gonna try 4″ screws first rather than nails, just for the reason that i can unscrew them if i make a booboo.

also i was going to postcrete 2 end posts only, as theyre the ones nearest the fields/cliff that take the brunt of any winds. im now considering not doing so for the reasons above, ‘moveabilty when wrong’ 🙂
hopefully the weight of all that wood in the earth will be heavy enough to not move.

fair enough, i’ve just been fixing one end with a screw (not tightly) then wondering to the other end, levelling it, and whacking a screw in there. Once the first length of cladding was in, each one was just stacked on top of the old one, then lifted 2mm to get to the right height.

I also found cutting to length roughly (say 5mm over), fixing, then cutting them all to the correct length in one go with a circular saw was a good way to get a really neat finish..

good idea, however i dont have access to a circular saw. ill be using an electric mitre saw so the wood will need cutting to size beforehand.

as they say….. measure twice (then three times then four), cut once 🙂

as promised, more progress pics…..

had a good day today, my mate came over and helped a lot, certainly got me on my way and i can do a lot more myself now im sure…

all 8 posts are in now, end 2 are postcreted, and floor ring beam done, started on the roof.

dunno how it happened but the post screwed into the concrete ended up waay out plus the bolts never really caught the metal plug to tighten, but….that seems to be the good thing about wood, theres always a work around so ive screwed a bit of 1″ strut to it, it wont be seen anyway 🙂 its still as secure as the wood in earth i reckon.

the 4″ screws given me were spot on, screwed into the wood like butter, so ill be using those wherever i can. i also bought some 6″ quick-clamps from screwfix which are spot on too.

really feel on a roll now and want to get cracking again, but… bittersweet, im off on holiday before i can do any more now, so itll be a couple of weeks before any more pics.

thanks a lot for all your help, its invaluable.

on holiday at the mo but doesnt stop me thinking thinking thinking…..

i was thinking id be connecting all joists to the ring beams by screws into the ends of the joists. then i read about using joist hangers, and that screwing into the ends reduces strength by a third etc…

opinions from the experts please? 🙂

Id just nail them, a couple of nails through from the outside of the ring beam into the end of the joist then some cheek nailed through the joist back into the bean on each side.

Use a block of wood clamped beneath the ring beam to support the joist at each end. Make a spacer so the centres of your joists are at 600mm centres or what ever the flooring material is.

I’d still nail a length of 4×2 vertically between your floor and roof rails, midway between your 4×4 posts, to give more support for your cladding.

back from hols, nice weather today, so had a full day at it…..

got all the floor joists in and the noggins. took ages breaking up different thickness slabs we got lying around in the garden, to use as supports. theres all sorts of stuff under there, bricks, slabs, and where i couldnt find anything the right thickness i made little tapered chocks. not convinced theyll stay under nice and tight as the wood moves about, but ive got that many other bits of concrete and bricks that its pretty solid.
no comments please on state of garden, washing on line, or mrs expunk sat on her a*se while im grafting 😉 its a building site at present, itll all be tidied on completion 😉

also had time to sneak a few decking boards on, but ill have to wait for my mates tools to do the nearest couple as theyll need jigsawing around the posts.

I’d still nail a length of 4×2 vertically between your floor and roof rails, midway between your 4×4 posts, to give more support for your cladding.

yup, ill do that when i know exactly what size the cladding needs to be and thus where theyll need joining. cladding will not be long enough for full lengths so im thinking rather than have em all join in a line, ill do one from one end and finish with an offcut, then reverse it for next one up etc etc.

tomorrow im hoping to get cracking with the shed side of it, thats a lower floor and a couple more posts to put in.

still not decided on roof yet so wont put roof joists in until i know where theyll need to be positioned.

thanks

It’s looking more like a shed with every post. Keep at it, winter is coming.

another hard day at it with my mate. half the decking now done (discovered 9 damaged boards so waiting now for them to deliver some swapsies) and the shed structure nearly complete. door and window frames put in, tops of posts sawn off and the shed floor joists in.

have to start thinking bout roof now as ill need to be putting some roof joists in and need to know widths for connections.
none of the top can be seen, so all im bothered about is it being waterproof and ‘not looking sh1t’ from the inside.
with that in mind my mate has suggested 5mm ply as base layer, followed by thinnish OSB, then felt on top.

anyone care to comment on that at all?

thanks

Just use a 12 or 15mm external ply unless cost is a issue just use Osborne and finish the boards on the middle of rafter.
Rafters minimum 400mm oc.

If you can get away with it put some diagonal braces in..

Just use a 12 or 15mm external ply unless cost is a issue just use Osborne and finish the boards on the middle of rafter.

cost is an issue, but im prepared to spend a bit more to have a better finish. how does 12mm ply compare with OSB pricewise?
whats osbourne?

Rafters minimum 400mm oc.

and

If you can get away with it put some diagonal braces in..

just been thinking bout that in the bath (its where all the best thinking happens…) and ive started wondering about the weight of the roof. the more rafters i put in, plus diagonal braces maybe, all adds a big heft to the weight of the roof. ive started thinking that all that weight is supported in the main by 4″ screws.
all that weight is on the roof ring, which is screwed to side of the posts. ok, shed side ive got a few more beams built into the structure, but gazebo side theres nothing.

should i be worried?

Osbourn = osb auto correct sorry.
I’ll have a quick study of your build..
Re rafters..what’s the span?

the whole structure is roughly 7m X 3m. (split is roughly 5m gazebo, 2m shed)

4″ screws have a high shear strength..what size screws are they 100mm x 5 or 6mm. If no moisture gets in to them they won’t rust. As for the braces I’d be more concerned about the side load caused by wind over the months years etc..
Treated 100 x 50mm C24 at 400mm centers will be good for any snow-load that might occur in this country. 15mm ply will aid roof strength better than osb.

Will the roof be over the decked section ?
I’d personally use 150 x 50 C24 @ 400 oc but as you’ve already the 100mm on the ring I’d reduce the measurements 100 x 50mm treated C24 305mm oc and use ply lengthways front to back and stagger the joints..ie. 2.44m + 0.56m ( 3m ) then on the next row.start with 0.56m + 2.44m…

just been out to garage to look. theyre reisser cutter screws, yellow tropicalized, 100 X 5mm.

good enough to take that weight do you think? would i add twice the roof strength if i stick 4 screws in per post instead of 2?

ill look into 15mm ply costs. thanks.

EDIT: looks like we were typing at the same time….. dont really understand all that, have you got a link to the boards youre suggesting? and yes, the roof will cover everything, its the full oblong.

EDIT EDIT: ah i understand a bit more now, youre on about preferring 6X2 but accept id be using 4X2 yep? and all the wood ive got is tanalised, not sure how that compares to C24.

and your 305 oc? youre suggesting 4 joists per board??

what thickness and quality ply would you suggest?

thanks a lot

Looks like you are doing a good job, keep the pics coming as you go along!