“Independent” article on ticks and Lyme disease

Appeared on Saturday online with a vid Q&A session from “expert” Dominic Dyer who’s apparently a wildlife campaigner, writer and broadcaster. Please disregard this as he’s not an “expert” due to the amount of inaccuracies he’s spouted. Is it not reasonable to expect someone to have actually researched the disease in order to provide accurate information to the public? Shame on him.

Websites for accurate info:

https://www.lymediseaseaction.org.uk/
https://caudwelllyme.com/
https://lymediseaseuk.com/

I’ve not watched it, but what does he say that’s cobblers?

Firstly, he said that a tick is the size of a poppy seed and easy to see. He must have brilliant eyesight to see a speck, cos that’s all it is. Secondly, he claims that to remove it with a tick remover tool you should twist it. No, you want it removed in one piece otherwise you could end up leaving the mouth parts embedded. Thirdly, no mention of how to check thoroughly for ticks ie paying particular attention to behind the knees, hairline, around the ears, armpits etc etc. so this information is extremely important. Fourthly, he claimed Lyme disease is very rare. Fact: in my UK Lyme support group there are 12,000 members.

Better stop there!

With regards to your second post, the ‘Otom Tick Teister’ tick removers we use on the dogs (and occasionally ourselves) are specifically designed to remove the tick by twisting. As I understood it, the ‘jaws’ of the tick done meet, but overlap (like a sideways overbite) so twisting the tick makes it less likely to break off mouth parts in the wound..

I use the Tom O Tick “Twister”. The instructions actually show the twisting motion recommended. I guess he could have been referring to that tool.

I’m also interested in the twisting information. We’ve always used the O’Tom tick twister on us and the dog. Is twisting not right then?

Not sure how to tell the difference between left hand threaded and right hand threaded ticks though

Hope it is, I twisted out a tick on Saturday using a tom o tick twister.

Another O Tom Tick Twister user here. Now confused.

Not sure how to tell the difference between left hand threaded and right hand threaded ticks though

Try ’em in your valve core 😉

tick twisters are the right thing to remove ticks

Yep, twist anti clockwise as the legs go in at a an angle. Never pull them out with tweezers as easy to pull the body off and leave the legs behind.
Most ticks are also about the size of a poppy seed (i.e. very small) but the young ones can indeed be a bit smaller.
Lyme disease is rare in the big scheme of things, i.e. across the whole population.

Try ’em in your valve core 😉

Haha, see what you did there.

I’ll add some advice from the French protocol missing form CG’s first link. It says to remove tics promptly but fails to say what to do if you don’t. If it’s been there a day or so and obviously had a meal your doc should prescribe anti-biotics according to protocol here. On this side of the channel you can send the tic off for analysis.

I removed 5 or 6 of the ****ers in the last few weeks. I just tweezers but I may have to invest in one of those Twister.

Is there a STW-recommended tick repellant?

Is it not reasonable to expect someone to have actually researched the disease in order to provide accurate information to the public?

I’m guessing your Lyme public information campaign is not limited to STW. So do you hold yourself to the same standard?

Websites for accurate info:

They’re not though, are they? They’re campaign websites for groups of sufferers who have a particular agenda.

The problem with Lyme disease is that there’s a disconnect between the views of the medical / research establishment and a very vocal minority of believers. I have no real insight into who is and who isn’t correct on this topic.

However, if you’re going to start a thread accusing someone of misinformation, well, you better make sure your facts are in order.

Lyme disease is not common by any metric – it’s not at all incorrect to call it rare. Rare diseases are those with a prevalence of < 1 in 1500-2000. At ~5 / 100,000 / yr in the UK(1), Lyme disease is rare. To pre-empt: even if its prevalence was underestimated by a factor of 10, it would still be rare.

If you wanted to hedge your bets and avoid common diseases, then heart disease and cancer are the ones to pay attention to. “Raising awareness” is good up until the point it starts crowding out other, more relevant, issues.

(1) https://bmcinfectdis.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12879-020-05018-2

Is there a STW-recommended tick repellant?

We’re plagued by the little devils in the garden.

Repellents containing 50% Deet or 20% Icaridin are best. Deet is losing favour, due to dissolving plastics and all

Smidge is Icardin, but £8 for 75ml is kinda pricey.

So…buy a litre for £25 https://www.bitebackproducts.co.uk/horse-and-rider/biteback-neem-supreme-fly-spray

Went in the garden last night after my evening shower (to find the badger I could hear). Got a tick crawling on me. I’d spent all day in the garden in flip flops – having coated myself in Neem Supreme – and didn’t get one. The shower obviously washed it off

Obviously there are many more with the same ingredients, but 20% Icaridin is what to search for.

We’re plagued by the little devils in the garden.

Repellents containing 50% Deet or 20% Icaridin are best. Deet is losing favour, due to dissolving plastics and all

Smidge is Icardin, but £8 for 75ml is kinda pricey.

So…buy a litre for £25 https://www.bitebackproducts.co.uk/horse-and-rider/biteback-neem-supreme-fly-spray

Went in the garden last night after my evening shower (to find the badger I could hear). Got a tick crawling on me. I’d spent all day in the garden in flips – having coated myself in Neem Supreme – and didn’t get one. The shower obviously washed it off

Obviously there are many more with the same ingredients, but 20% Icaridin is what to search for.

Thank you very much, that’s super useful 😉

Not sure how to tell the difference between left hand threaded and right hand threaded ticks though

If it has a little spline type marking on it the it needs a PZ bit.

The problem with Lyme disease is that there’s a disconnect between the views of the medical / research establishment and a very vocal minority of believers.

Well it makes it’s way onto the NHS website and the GP of a friend’s son had no hesitation in diagnosing Lyme’s Disease.

The problem with Lyme disease is that there’s a disconnect between the views of the medical / research establishment and a very vocal minority of believers.

Well it makes it’s way onto the NHS website and the GP of a friend’s son had no hesitation in diagnosing Lyme’s Disease.

I’m pretty sure @Superficial wasn’t denying the existence of Lyme, just pointing out there is a lot of controversy about diagnosis in some cases, chronic Lyme etc etc.

The tick removers are good for most, but don’t seem to work for the really really tiny ones? I had to resort to a set of thin tweezers for those, trying best to grip below the body.

Hang on, a disease kills 130,000 people and you go on a march to campaign against protocols put in place to treat/contain/eradicate it.

A non fatal disease affects 12,000 people and?

Yeah, that’s where my train of thought was going…

I’m afraid I too was wondering how the OP reconciled their wildly contrasting stances on Covid and Lyme.

When I’m shooting and mostly exposed to ticks.

I wear light coloured trousers and wellingtons (even though they can be very hot)

Spray fly killer in the wellies and on the trousers.

and my own “Tick Mix”

White vinegar.
Water
Lemon essential or Eucalyptus oil.
in a plastic spray bottle.

Don’t know if this actually works…but I don’t feel I get so many on me now.

RT

I use one of these: https://www.lifesystems.co.uk/products/insect-repellents/tick-removal-tool and, up to now at least, have found it to be effective at removing the entire tick from either myself or (more frequently) my spaniel!

It seems to work on the tiny ones too.

I also have no doubt Lyme disease exists – in the same way as I have no doubt Covid does.

Bristol folks need to be aware how common ticks are in Leigh Woods and around there at the moment. Got 2 on me (tiny things already burrowed when spotted) and 1 on son last weekend having sat on logs on a ride.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81YN3dddkJL._AC_SX522_.jpg

We get a shit-load of the buggers on Woodbury Common. I’ve had to have antibiotics a couple of times due to getting the telltale ‘bullseye’ rash. Never had any Lyme’s disease symptoms though.

I didn’t get on with the tick twister. Never seemed to work on the real little ones.

My favoured method used to be a bit if liquid soap on a cotton bud, and then swirl it around the tick. They let go of your skin and grab onto the cotton bud. Works must of the time.

Then I discovered the tick key. Great design, works really well, and lives on my keys.

Extracted this from my shin last week after a Haldon ride, keeping an eye on on the scar.

Actually.

Edited.

Not worth it.

I’m a fan of the O’Tom ones. For me they’ve made it really easy to get out every one we’ve found so far on both human and (vast majority) dog. We’ve been using them towards 10 years I guess.

I don’t have one yet but I noticed the other day that their new packs now include a third much smaller remover for the really tiny ticks.

Bit alarmed to hear of people still recommending twisting, I have never found this to work, as someone mentioned if you twist the body off and leave the head in you will be scratching like a whippet for about three days.

When you discover one on you, you don’t necessarily know how long it’s been at work so they may be buried in already, this is different to a fresh one just getting started, could also be in and sucking, my first ever tick had a blood sac inflated before I found it, all of this adds up to checking frequently and getting them off before it’s a problem.

I’m Scottish and camp wild so it’s a normal thing, I know two forestry workers who have had Lymes, one nearly died, took a year or so to fully recover and lost a lot to illness, when they get a bullseye they go straight to Raigmore hospital in Inverness to get a vax, no ifs no buts, vax quickly is the only way to be sure and most doctors don’t see it enough to know.
I get loads, mostly nymphs, these are the small ones mentioned, but if you camp near deer you might be lucky enough to get an adult, these are the ones that have drawn blood before and they say the ones that are most likely to carry lymes, if per chance you get one of those guys sticking out of your leg with a blood sac filling up don’t go ‘AAAARRRRGH’ and whack it..which is actually quite hard not to do to be fair, the danger is it spewing blood back into you, this is the moment you find out how effective your extraction device is, I use life line tweezers with the little hook grip bit but the V pull ones are good if your not good with just the right pressure, best action is just even leverage until it sort of lets go, don’t rush, it takes a second or two, the V ones have a curve to apply leverage by just tilting, some come with instructions to twist but the tool itself is designed to lever straight, no idea what that’s all about, they don’t actually do anything in a twisting motion and tics don’t have spiral faces.

Sorry for the long post, there may be something in there that helps someone in a tick infested moment.

We get lots of ticks where I live in Queensland. There are numerous tick-borne diseases here, although Lyme disease apparently doesn’t exist … although i don’t like the idea of mamalian meat allergy

The researchers that discovered MMA say “freeze it don’t squeeze it”
There’s a video about it too.

More from the The Australasian Society of Clinical Immunology and Allergy

We keep this stuff in our hiking gear, as well as scabies cream for really tiny ones (it contains permethrin which kills them in place).

Twice i’ve had tiny ones on the side of my head that i accidentally scratched – leading to the side of my head and eye swelling up (not painful but very weird).

Bit alarmed to hear of people still recommending twisting, I have never found this to work

Not really sure what you’re doing as I always got them out intact with that particular method. Certainly I’ve not found the Lifeline tool/method any better and I have both.

That Tick Key posted up there looks interesting and convenient. Might give that a shot.

Bit alarmed to hear of people still recommending twisting,

You can be as alarmed as you like but twisting has worked for me for the last 20 years and I have never left the legs behind.
If other methods work for you then fine, it is clearly not the only way to get them out.

twisting is the recommended way and always works for me. Its the least likely way to have them regurgitate into you

On twisting for removal, from the OPs own link in the first post:

the hook and the loop are designed to be twisted to facilitate removal.

They recommend twisting if the tool is designed that way. They don’t recommend twisting if using tweezers as it is difficult to do without breaking tick.  The link is not bad really

Another vote for the O Tom twister here, been using one for years and never left any part of a tick in any of us or the dogs.
In fact the only time I did have a problem was when I didn’t have my normal one to hand and had to use the pull straight out style and the tick was so embedded that some was left still in there. Luckily the body rejected it naturally and there was no disease.
I carry the O Tom ones in every first aid kit, I think they come with the Lifesystems kits now, or at least did.

Freezing looks like a good method. Can see any ether tick spray in the UK though. Should/would wart remover or plumbing spray do the same job?

do not do that. It can make them regurgitate into you.

I don’t see why freezing would make them regurgitate.
I have ED consultant friends who use the method.

We use elastoplast freeze spray (‘magic sponge’ type physio spray), but the wart stuff is recommended too. Deep Freeze spray is the same thing i think.

There’s some published research here – although not perfect, it’s supportive.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6494660/