in school, no kids to teach

I think they are a bunch of back-sliding work dodgers who have no idea how lucky they are to have any job and any career progression and any chance of a pension. The country is broke, the current system is unsustainable and something had to give.

Woo-hoo another one!

‘Fraid I disagree with most of this. Teachers do a valuable job, deserve to be paid an appropriate wage and not have their pensions mucked about with. The country isn’t broke, the current system isn’t unsustainable, the only thing that has to give is the Govt raising taxes (or one/more of a range of other money making measures that are unpalatable to it) to be able to afford the stuff it promised to a valuable profession a long time ago.

So you think everybody that is already feeling the squeeze of pay freezes and higher prices of everything would happily accept increased taxes?

As an example, if they didn’t let Vodafone off with £6bn worth of tax revenue, then we’d be in a better financial state then we are now.

So you think everybody that is already feeling the squeeze of pay freezes and higher prices of everything would happily accept increased taxes?

I assume this was aimed at my post.

Not happily no, and it doesn’t even have to be “everybody that is already feeling the squeeze” either. Plenty of rich folks out there who aren’t for example. Then check out Jon1973’s post for another example. Maybe a windfall tax on some of the better performing banks, plenty of other areas that could be tackled but Teachers seem to be the main target, anyone else wonder why?

Me? I reckon it’s ideology, one that’s been proven to be great for the few, but rubbish for the many a few times already…

“A lot of the private sector are implementing pay freezes, most of them have scrapped final salary pensions so its not like its only happening in the public sector”

Why has this happened? because during the 80s and 90s businesses raided their pension schemes and took pension holidays in order to keep their profits looking good and increase dividends to their shareholders. How the workforce in these companies were prepared to let this happen with nothing but a bit of grumbling is beyond me. The public sector is making a stand against effectively the same thing and probably showing the resolve that the private sector workers wish they had but didn’t when it was needed.

I had no choice. As a supply teacher I do what my agency says! They are not supplying supply to any school today. Forgetting the disgusting attitude that strikers cannot be covered, the agency won’t provide any cover, even for genuine illness etc. Why? Guess its to keep the effing unions happy. Result. 1 days money lost for something I don’t support. 👿
Just a question for those who have a problem with this. One assumes that you object to all strikes then.

In that case, i take it you are either a teacher or an idiot

In that case, i take it you are either a teacher or an idiot

or both?

I must admit I laughed when my local school sent an email last night reminding us parents to cook our cakes for the school fair tomorrow.

Surely the teachers who are spending a day at home, could do it.

woohoo, home early. Was a bit suprised to see that me the non striking teacher being demonised in this thread for being lazy. Oh well I’ll live.

out of interest the people who are happy for teachers terms and conditions to be made much worse do they want better teachers or worse ones? I’m always amazed that people dont realise in many areas there are shortages of good teachers. Pay peanuts get monkeys.

Haha love this thread

Peyote – as a government employee who has had his pay frozen, his pension mucked about with and can’t strike, I have no sympathy with anyone striking. I accept that, over the years, there have been some rubbish decisions by government. I accept that the relatively large pensions for the public sector cannot be sustained. It is rubbish, but I really can’t see another way of reducing spending (other than raising taxes, but that is the same end result). The view that ‘the rich can pay’ assumes that there are loads of rich people wallowing in pots of cash. There aren’t as a percentage of the total population. I suppose you think the NHS is fine as it is as well?

@TooTall

Me too – I think they are a bunch of back-sliding work dodgers.

What, all of them, including my wife, and all of the teachers here on this forum?

The ones on strike – yes. The rest – no.

Tootall, so you think it’s fair that if the rich can’t pay, the government impose an occupation-specific tax on teachers of 3% on top of what they pay already?

Plus: there are some teachers striking today who do not support the strike. There are many many more Xie support strike action, including me, who worked today. I’ll let you work it out.

I suppose you think the NHS is fine as it is as well?

Oh no…….now you’ve really done it.

Well, my wife’s not on strike, but it was a tough decision for her.

But can you honestly say that you think that it is reasonable that the teachers should, at one stroke,

Pay 50% more in the way of contributions.

AND lose 15% of the value of their pensions because of the change from RPI

AND work another 8 years before they get anything?

Because that is the reality of what they are being asked to cough up.

It’s a lot isn’t it?

And frankly, I think there is way more to the whole thing than economics.

Did you listen to Evan Davies interviewing Francis Maude on the Today programme this morning?

Go and have a listen and see if you can detect ANY satisfactory answers when he was pressed to give any factual basis behind the Govt’s position.

Today Francis Maude interview

you think it’s fair that if the rich can’t pay, the government impose an occupation-specific tax on teachers of 3% on top of what they pay already?

I think pension payments should be means tested and those wealthy enough get nothing. I think public sector pensions are excessively generous and need trimming as they are unsustainable. I think the finance industry needs to be controlled better and pay more to the country for what it does from London. I think corporations should not be able to dodge paying taxes. I think politicians should not be allowed to have complete careers in politics but do something else first and then be dealt with like all other civil servants.

None of these on their own is the answer. All of these and more are part of the answer.

I think pension payments should be means tested and those wealthy enough get nothing.

So we take away all the private pensions that bankers/company directors/self employed people etc pay into at the moment, if they pass the means test?

OK, sounds reasonable.

I meant the state pension.

I also fully support the right to strike – but it is pretty much the ‘nuclear’ end of possible actions – it is the ultimate act to not go to work. I just think striking straight away reduces the impact striking has and undermines any point.

On what factual basis do you conclude that pub sector pensions are unsustainable? Please don’t say ‘because the govt says so’. Listen to the interview clip, its worth 11 minutes of your time

The country is broke, the current system is unsustainable and something had to give.

Too bad it has to be the education of the kids we were relying on to create future wealth, eh?

I do think this strike seems to have polarised views, but there seems to be a conflation with inconvenience and blame. It seems that those in favour of the strike, accept that the lack of teachers in school is a necessary price to pay for the protection of workers’ rights and others that seem to see the teachers as grabbing / lazy etc. whose actions serve to alienate the general public. There doesn’t seem to be camp who are pissed off with the strike but lay the blame for it at the door of the government who have instigated it.

One bad interview does not make me change a view.

The public sector is bloated and has been historically badly run for years. The NHS is a dogs dinner and has layers and layers of ineffective management that duplicate work nationally. The estate is badly run and needs a complete re-boot (Manchester civil service campus an example of good practice). The black hole in defence costs isn’t going to vanish. People are living longer and the population is ageing, so there won’t be the current workers paying the taxes in today to pay as pensions tomorrow. I’ve worked for the government in several departments for over 18 years of my life – very few of them were even close to efficient and despite my best efforts to improve the situation, most of them were bigger than me and more resistant to change. Things have changed and there isn’t the money – previous governments didn’t save when times were good – they spent. Now we suffer.

Strike for a decent level of pay that will allow public service to purchase an adequate private pension rather than giving those oh so valuable kids a ticking fiscal bomb. That’s what everyone else has to do.

Markie – Member

I’m amazed Elfin and Ernie haven’t jumped in on this one…

Elfie is serving a ban and I’ve been emailed by a mod warning me to ease off the arguing otherwise I’ll be getting a ban too. Which seems fair enough to me.

The warning was “in relation” to this btw (on another thread concerning the teacher’s strike) http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/many-kids-off-on-thursday-due-to-the-strike#post-2712276

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/a-guide-to-strike-etiquette-201106304015/%5B/url%5D

I meant the state pension.

I thought you probably did, but the teachers pension isn’t just the state pension is it? They pay 6% of salary on top of the normal NIC for their pension scheme, but the Govt is proposing that that should rise to 9% at teh same time as devaluing it by 15% and making them wait an extra 8 years before they get it.

One bad interview does not make me change a view.

It wasn’t just a bad interview. He’s a Government minister and he couldn’t justify, even in his own terms, the false assertion being put out by the Govt that the scheme is unaffordable. The Government’s own report shows that the cost of the scheme will fall significantly over time as a % of GDP.

I’ve worked for the government in several departments for over 18 years of my life – very few of them were even close to efficient and despite my best efforts to improve the situation, most of them were bigger than me and more resistant to change.

Ha ha ha – you weren’t a bloody consultant were you?

Things have changed and there isn’t the money

You’re repeating yourself, so I will too.

The Government’s own report shows that the cost of the scheme will fall significantly over time as a % of GDP.

i.e it will already cost less than it does now – about 25% less over 40 years, with no further changes. So it is affordable.

How many people slagging off lazy teachers are posting on work time using work computers?

Not me. Only post when I’m not working. No work, no pay, so there! Next?

neither teacher nor imho an idiot. I work in large scale manufacturing, and have seen it go from over manned subsidised to brink of collapse to slow recovery. We’ve had to make massive changes, some reasonable, some not so reasonable. Again, my own opinion is that any job working 8.30 til 3.30 with 15 plus weeks of holiday plus numerous bingo days inbetween is part time compared to most occupations.

Who said the teachers are lazy feckers? 🙄

Interesting font page on the Independent comparing average pesnions/length of service for various public sector employees. Suffice to say that Members of Parliament should think about leading by example…..

Had an interesting conversation with my boss a couple of days ago…

Him: Are you striking Thursday?

Me: No, wrong time, wrong cause etc etc

Him: Good

Me: I may need to have a day’s leave if my son’s school is closed though

Him: HR say you can’t book leave on a strike day

Me: What do HR have to say about me bringing a 7 year old into the office for the day then?

Him: I’ll get back to you on that one….. 🙄

Again, my own opinion is that any job working 8.30 til 3.30 with 15 plus weeks of holiday plus numerous bingo days inbetween is part time compared to most occupations.

I completely agree with you.

But teaching is nothing like that.

Again, my own opinion is that any job working 8.30 til 3.30 with 15 plus weeks of holiday plus numerous bingo days inbetween

house!!! what did I win?

Your free to retrain and climb aboard the gravy train, pension is still great.

Labour are keeping very quiet aren’t they? Possibly becasue Hutton was their Man? I thought the idea of Oposition was to opose.

neither teacher nor imho an idiot. I work in large scale manufacturing, and have seen it go from over manned subsidised to brink of collapse to slow recovery. We’ve had to make massive changes, some reasonable, some not so reasonable.

And yet despite all those hardships and difficulties, you didn’t chose to go for the simple part-time full pay, long holidays, option of becoming a teacher. That sounds a bit idiotic to me. oh! imho

And yet despite all those hardships and difficulties, you didn’t chose to go for the simple part-time full pay, long holidays, option of becoming a teacher. That sounds a bit idiotic to me. oh! imho

not too keen on kids.

Your free to retrain and climb aboard the gravy train,

I’m guessing you mean ‘you’re’ ?

I’m guessing you mean ‘you’re’ ?

There you go, you’ve got a competitive advantage already – you could be an English teacher.

What is your actual job in large scale manufacturing BTW?

Does Ed Milliband look like the kind of wimp man who’s going to grow a pair any time soon and come out in support of the workers?

He owes his election to the union block vote, so the second he makes a squeak – and it will be a squeak – then the rabid murdoch press go into overdrive about being a union stooge etc

He’s effectively neutered. But then that’s a word that springs to mind whenever i set eyes on the sniveling waste of space anyway. If this is the best labour can do, here’s to another 15 years in the political wilderness. And christ knows where we’ll all be by then