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  • In Praise of Sustrans and Traffic-Free Cycle Paths (photos)
  • butcher
    Full Member

    The blogger writes that “Human beings are not infallible, and even with higher standards of driving (and cycling), mistakes will happen. The consequences of those mistakes should not be fatal. Structural separation allows people, particularly cyclists, to make mistakes with only minor consequences.”

    and someone makes the point in the comments that “achieving changes in driver behaviour is probably an even more ambitious project than building wide-scale Dutch style infrastructure”

    I don’t think you can sum it up much better than that.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Butcher, it’s nice but it’s a pipe dream, isn’t it?

    Are you proposing an entirely new network of cycle only paths? Really? Roads simply have to feature in the life of someone who cycles for transport, and where there are roads there’s the risk of being run over.

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    Are you proposing an entirely new network of cycle only paths? Really? Roads simply have to feature in the life of someone who cycles for transport, and where there are roads there’s the risk of being run over.

    I think we’re all proposing pretty much the same thing:

    – plenty of useful, well designed, well maintained, traffic-free cycle paths covering arterial routes and giving cyclists the choice of avoiding the most dangerous roads (NSLs, dual carriageways)

    – physical separation where practical along other major roads

    – other changes to road layout to protect cyclists where physical separation is not possible.

    – other facilities such as 20 zones, cycle lanes, traffic restrictions, priority changes etc in residential areas and towns.

    I’m not sure how, or if, this differs from your vision of an “integrated network” which you haven’t really explained yet?

    MrAgreeable
    Full Member

    The budget for the creation of cycle routes in the Netherlands is about £25 per head annually. Sounds like a lot, but going from one mode of transport to the other, that’s a similar level of subsidy to the funding that Concorde received. And who got to ride on that?

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    The budget for the creation of cycle routes in the Netherlands is about £25 per head annually.

    UK budget is 70p per cyclist per year!

    MrAgreeable
    Full Member

    Hembrow reckons the Uk budget for infrastructure is actually a lot less, once you take into account all the “soft” measures like promotion and training (which, worthy as they are, have been going on for quite a few years now with little discernible effect on cycling levels).

    http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2010/05/487-million-euros-for-cycling.html

    butcher
    Full Member

    Butcher, it’s nice but it’s a pipe dream, isn’t it?

    Are you proposing an entirely new network of cycle only paths? Really? Roads simply have to feature in the life of someone who cycles for transport, and where there are roads there’s the risk of being run over.

    It’s certainly not going to happen overnight. Not on that scale. I can only hope it will happen in my lifetime and I maintain the health to enjoy it.

    But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t start. And even beginning projects on such a large scale sends out positive messages about cycling and its potential importance in modern society.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    In contrast, modifications to roads and routing to support integration could happen in a few years.

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Yay for cycle routes…
    [/url]
    Exif_JPEG_PICTURE[/url] by matt_outandabout[/url], on Flickr
    [/url]
    Exif_JPEG_PICTURE[/url] by matt_outandabout[/url], on Flickr
    [/url]
    Exif_JPEG_PICTURE[/url] by matt_outandabout[/url], on Flickr
    [/url]
    Glen Ogle, Killin[/url] by matt_outandabout[/url], on Flickr
    [/url]
    Glen Ogle, Killin[/url] by matt_outandabout[/url], on Flickr

    molgrips
    Free Member

    That’ll really help ease the morning commute!

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    In contrast, modifications to roads and routing to support integration could happen in a few years.

    What sort of modifications are we talking about molgrips? You still haven’t really expanded on what you meant by an “integrated network”?

    Do you mean the same kind of things I’m suggesting in my last two points above (20 zones, improving junctions for cyclists etc)? Cycle lanes? Or something else?

    That’ll really help ease the morning commute!

    Yep. Three kids cycling and having fun, who may well indeed develop a lifelong enjoyment of it and choose bike over car for their commutes later in life. That’s a long term approach. That’s what it is all about.

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    *glitch bump again*

    butcher
    Full Member

    In contrast, modifications to roads and routing to support integration could happen in a few years.

    I’m all for it. Anything that improves cycling. But I’m not entirely sure what you mean either, and I don’t see why you can’t modify and improve existing infrastructure and build new infrastructure.

    simons_nicolai-uk
    Free Member

    Wanting to kill people is not an ingrained behaviour for human beings, and I think people could be prompted into responsibility.
    But no-one’s even tried, have they? Loads of campaigns against drunk driving (from which we all benefit of course) and speeding, but where’s the campaign for cycling respect? Now would be the perfect time.

    And right on cue ….a much better argued and researched case than I made.

    “The idea that somehow physical engineering is difficult and expensive and unpopular, while changing human behaviour is quick, easy, cheap and effective, is one that the British are remarkably strongly attached to”

    ”the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. For eighty years or more the answer to motorists playing nice has been just a little bit more education and awareness raising”[/url]

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    And yet more Sustrans evidence that traffic-free cycle routes get people cycling (and walking) to work:

    Cyclists made 40 million more journeys by bike on a national network of cycle routes, bucking a trend of falling traffic volumes on the roads, the study by Sustrans transport charity found.

    Cyclists and pedestrians made 484 million journeys along the National Cycle Network — 13,600 miles of signed routes on traffic-free paths or quieter roads — last year. A third of cyclists said that they could have chosen to drive instead, which would have resulted in an additional 52 million car journeys on the roads.

    The report, Cycling Revolution, calculated that the health benefit of the network was worth £442 million a year.

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3448897.ece

    BristolPablo
    Free Member

    Does anyone know if the NCN Route 8 South from Dolgellau towards Llanegryn is rideable on a road bike? the OS map shows an white “other road or track” marked with broken lines rather than solid lines so I’m guessing its likely to be hard packed gravel not tarmac? The area i’m interested in is 656133 to 611061 following the “cwm-llwyd”

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