I'm a bird-murdering, sheep-worrying, landscape wrecker.

The ex employee in question spotted the relevance of the list “suspect illegal mtb’ers” as his brothers name was on it.
Just cause things are questionable under data protection does not mean that “respect bodies” do not get up stuff they should not like the Police. They may consider that it’s the right thing to do.

Oops! Thick person in action. Double post.

piedi di formaggio – its another one of Glorious Leader Blairs gifts to the nation. Under his uber-draconian ‘anti-terrorism’ laws (that must have had the North Koreans looking on enviously), pretty much any government agency, or quango, (the National Trust being a typically suitable example of what ‘anti-terrorism was meant to cover – suicide bombing squirrels perhaps?) can gain access to pretty much any information they like, on the flimsiest of pretexts, if in fact they have to give any reason at all.

See Bikebouy, I’m spreading blame around 😀

It’s anti terror in it? Could venture that would be a good reason for stopping folk biking. “It’s to stop sheep terrorism”. Perhaps the known unknown is that an Orange Alpine 160 is a weapon of mass sheep distruction.

Yeah, but in that picture he’s saying ‘yeah, that’s fine. You can ride your bike up there’. Obviously, he follows that up with ‘release the hounds’

Here’s what the DVLA say

https://www.gov.uk/request-information-from-dvla

You can request details of a vehicle’s registered keeper and certain other information from DVLA if you have ‘reasonable cause’.
Why you might make a request

‘Reasonable cause’ can include:

finding out who was responsible for an accident
tracing the owner of an abandoned vehicle
tracing the owner of a vehicle illegally parked on private land
issuing parking tickets
tracing people responsible for driving off without paying for goods and services
tracing vehicle owners suspected of insurance fraud

What information you can request

You can ask for:

details of a vehicle’s registered keeper
information about previous keepers for a vehicle now registered in your name
information the DVLA holds about you

Private car parking management companies can only request information from the DVLA if they’re members of the British Parking Association or the Independent Parking Committee.”

Unless there is a by-law in place, expressly prohibiting it, it is not “illegal” to ride on a footpath.
I’d be surprised if the NT were so ill-informed about access law as to not realise the issue with the wording of that sign.

Just sent them a tweet. Will report back if they bite. I agree about staying out of Bucky Woods though.

Strangely the bike riders prefer to stick to the trails and paths rather than charging across the heathland randomly and hence aren’t seen as a threat to ground nesting birds.

+1, much more likely to be dogs and then walkers; us mtbers and the horsists will be some way behind I’d have thougth. Also a bit rich complaining about us upsetting birds when they’ll be getting blown out of the sky soon enough.

I’m a bird-murdering, sheep-worrying, landscape wrecker.

Shouldn’t you have included “Greggs stalking” as well?

Haven’t read the whole thread but i would say the sign is not officially endorsed by the national trust as its impossible to define a Bridleway through signage alone, and remember an OS Map is no representation of a right of way, or an accurate way of following what is actually on the ground.

Unless there is a by-law in place, expressly prohibiting it, it is not “illegal” to ride on a footpath.
I’d be surprised if the NT were so ill-informed about access law as to not realise the issue with the wording of that sign.

Technically, cycling on the entirety of the NT estate other than bridleway said is a breach of byelaws, on a number of other urban fringe commons it would be a breach of S193 law of property act.

Regardless it’s all bullocks because byelaws are rarely if ever enforced, so two fingers wo the whole thing and crack on.

I wonder if that gate has permission to be there?

Tell you what mind ‘we maintain 10km of this bridleway for your use’ is an interesting admission of liability, given that legally they don’t have to maintain for cyclists… If I fell off and hurt my leg on a rock or pothole I would likely be phoning claims direct sharpish 🙂

I agree about staying out of Bucky Woods though.

That is just cowardice I assume 😉

So, rather than bleat about the rights and wrongs of the signage on a forum, what are we all actually doing to get the access situation changed, locally and nationally?

Actively involved in local access forums? Engage in dialogue with landowners? Work with rights of way officers to get status reviewed?
Hound local councillors and MPs to get things changed? Support any of the national groups or campaigns?

A few years ago, a group of us went for a ride in an area of ssi. A few got some letters home telling them they were seen riding bikes in that area. They must have got their address through their reg number. Strangely not all of us got letters and we were parked next to each other on a public road

The ex employee in question spotted the relevance of the list “suspect illegal mtb’ers” as his brothers name was on it.
Just cause things are questionable under data protection does not mean that “respect bodies” do not get up stuff they should not like the Police. They may consider that it’s the right thing to do.

The best course of action, if he could be bothered, would be for the brother to demand sight of anything and everything they held on him (under the terms of the DPA), and if there was anything of that nature, make a formal complaint to the ICO. IMO they’d be on very, very shaky ground trying to justify holding that sort of information. That bodies do such things, doesn’t mean they will be able to justify it, they’ve probably just never been held to account for it before.

So, rather than bleat about the rights and wrongs of the signage on a forum, what are we all actually doing to get the access situation changed, locally and nationally?

Actively involved in local access forums? Engage in dialogue with landowners? Work with rights of way officers to get status reviewed?
Hound local councillors and MPs to get things changed? Support any of the national groups or campaigns?

errrr. I just ride cheeky and be damned.

A few got some letters home telling them they were seen riding bikes in that area

Letters from who?

errrr. I just ride cheeky and be damned.

I try to ride responsibly and politely. Agree about Bucky Woods though – think that should come off our radar.

To try and appease them you could try getting off the bike and pushing up the paths. Oh hang on a minute…. 😀

Letters from who?

From WHOM, cheesy, from WHOM!

Nature England or something like that.

If mountain bikes caused sheep to miscarry, farmers would never put their sheep in fields with bridleways through them at lambing time, but they do!

I’ve ridden loads of local bridleways where there are sheep at lambing time. I’ve also seen the erosion caused by 100s of walkers tramping along them when the ground’s wet.

I love the way mtbers bury thier heads in the sand, riding soft peaty trails in the wet, without a doubt causes more erosion than walkers, wheels form a rut, which holds water, if it points downhill it flows forming a stream, thus causing excessive erosion, i have seen evidence of this in numerous places, where bikes are ridden often, the issue is numbers and riding responsibly when it is very soft, do you know anyone that will stay off the moors in wet conditions?

wheels form a rut, which holds water, if it points downhill it flows forming a stream

Any peer review publication to back up your science that wheels form a rut that forms a stream?

I stay off the moors in very wet conditions as it does lots of [ visual mainly] damage and its really not fun to ride through mile after mile of bog.

Frankly, any damage to the ground by mountain bikers is a drop in the ocean compared with what cars and road building have done to the landscape.

wheels form a rut

Feet do too.

I don’t need faux science, i can just use my own eyes, my local trails change all the time due to this action, not to mention, locking up the back end when braking, i have no agenda, but i see the damage caused by bikes and it is far more rapid than walkers over a short time frame.

i have no agenda, but i see the damage caused by bikes and it is far more rapid than walkers over a short time frame.

Under what circumstances? How many bikes, how many walkers, how much time? Comparable conditions?

Is the problem caused by locking wheels up rather than simply riding?

I am not going to argue the point, i don’t care, i ride responsibly, the evidence is clear to see.

Water causes a lot of erosion. Seen it with my own beady eyes.

you are a fool.

and at that point you have lost my support!

I don’t need faux science, i can just use my own eyes

Me too the world is flat innit I can see that with my own eyes

No debating with someone who does not need facts

Who are you calling a fool? Water causes loads of erosion.

Sweet baby Jesus the flat earth society, i’m out.

“flat world”?

I’m back in.

I support the notion of a flat world. If I stand upright all I see is a flat horizon..

8)

For Stoner*

*I had spotted my mistake, but really couldn’t be arsed to change it. knew it would trigger someone’s grammar reflex on here 😉

Which would certainly prompt an inquiry from me about what data they hold on em and where they got it from.

A bit earlier somebody was suggesting making some similar signs up for walkers. Given that the sign is not factually incorrect (apart from possibly the “illegal” bit, though it seems there may be a byelaw), I’d be tempted instead by an alternative sign which is not factually incorrect:

By doing so you can seriously disturb uptight commoners, cause global warming and result in thermonuclear armageddon

do you know anyone that will stay off the moors in wet conditions?

just search on here for Cut Gate. Any number of threads see people being warned off after rain. Plenty of us, even those who sometimes ride FPs, are selective about where we go and when.

I agree on some points with fergal, some trails are ridden clumsily and do become damaged due to mtbs, however lots are damaged through walking. Don’t start me on litter….

the world is a big place and there is room for every one. I’d just like to point out that as a relatively new user of the great outdoors we should try to avoid antagonizing the old guard as it just makes it harder to get change accepted.

Oh and everyone should stop being dicks