If you're thinking of winter car tyres…

Two things

So whats the impact on Winter tyres when used in >7 degrees temp and dry roads, with regard to grip and wear?

and

Although I admit it may not have been the smartest decision, I took a 230bhp rwd auto beemer with 255’s on the rear out to a biking meet during last years snow with no issue. I drove according to the conditions, didn’t crash or slide. So to me its as much about the driver skills also, no?

Folk just need to learn to drive and also when its not safe to.

Yep, but this is the Great British Public you’re talking about.

How many of you naysayers have ever noticed a difference between tread pattern and compound on a mtb tyre?

IMO Folk just need to learn to drive and also when its not safe to.

Is confused. Why did you waste money on a Landy and an AWD if it’s just a question of judgement or skill?

getting out of junctions is one area you can notice a difference. Saves wear from wheelspinning too – you might think that the spin on snow isnt wearing your tires but it is dont you worry.

And therein lies my point, unless you’re 17 in a McDonalds car park trying to get the local jailbait into your back seat, how often do you skid to notice a sudden increace in grip imediately after changeing tyres?

In an ememrgency or accident, yes they may well be better.

It’s the evangelists who claim they’ve transformed their lives that perplex me.

summer tyres, winter tyres!
cheapest black rubber on all four corners thank you very much.

on average there is one or two days a year when i wont drive and its due to traffic not conditions. £630 (source unknown) for a set of tyres to use for a maximum of a month per year is bonkers, thats more than my car/tax/insurance costs and its nearly half the value of my hardtail.

So you are obviously still gettig your roads clearedthen . They have given up up here and the number of cars strugglig to get out of junctions onto the clear roads

Tbh makes no odds to me as i just go where i want on my winter tires and avoid the queues of folk trying to get onto the main roads. Ive yet to encounter anything on a public road thats as deep or as icy as the farm track from my house.

The dont drive in the snow is a good solution to save your 630 quid actually and would go hand in hand with fines for those involved in blockages and crashes found to have summer tires on – that would deter alot of folk im sure and make them think is this journey really necessary in my vehicle thats not really suitable for these conditions for 1 week a year and allow those of us who see the big picture to carry on as normal and safely 😉 those driving gods above obviously wont have any crashes and thus wont be effected by the fines 😉

On wet roads most winter tyres have an E rating for traction, most decent all season tyres have an A or a B rating. Winter tyres take longer to stop on wet roads. What do we have most days in winter?

What do we have most days in winter?

COLD

soobalias – that number was a quick quote from black circles.com for my car (ford kuga)- I imagin its possible to get them cheaper….

I’ve spent years driving on snowy roads in winter without winter tyres, never got stuck once and never hit so much as hit a curb, you just need to adapt your driving style to the conditions.

My final word on the matter.

There’s no denying winter tyres offer an increase in grip in cold conditions, but may wear faster in warmer weather.
They are expensive.

I am lucky enough to be able to afford a set.

If I can afford a set, didn’t buy them and then was in an accident which wouldn’t have happened if I’d have the winter tyres on, I’d be kicking myself. Especially if I had my family in the car. If I couldn’t afford a set, then I’d have to accept that’s the way it is. But I can, so I bought them.

suiatable for all year round use on anything but high motorway milage.

I did some research on this a while back before getting winters fitted to mine. Based on what i read – using winter tyres in summer compromises performance. Similarly ‘summer’ tyres in winter. In between – between about 7 and 11 degrees, which covers a fair chunk of the year and a lot of the night time temperatures, there’s little between them.

But the compromise of using winter tyres in summer is significantly lower than the compromise of using summer tyres in winter. hence, if you don’t think it’s worth having two sets and faffing between the two, you’re better off with winters all year round for overall performance and grip.

I put some winter (more like all-season) tyres on in November as I needed new ones anyway. They’re Kleber Quadraxxers which actually get slated a bit in mag reviews but have decent user reviews – to me they’re been fine on dry or wet roads (although they do apparently take longer to stop on wet roads, I can’t say I’ve noticed). On the snow though they’re miles better, cars around me tip-toeing about and you can see wheelspin yet my car has loads of grip. I would say though that on sheet ice they don’t really give any more grip (and nor do the manufacturers claim they do).
The tyres I really wanted were Continental Wintercontacts which get great reviews and are decent on fuel/noise – I couldn’t get some in time but I see no reason why you wouldn’t buy those as your default all-year-round tyre (unless you wanted to save pennies and get the cheapest tyres available).

or follow the guidance from Continental. The UK climate is such that you are better off on winter tyres and changing to summer tyres for a few weeks a year than running summer tyres and changing to winter tyres for a couple of weeks,

Is confused. Why did you waste money on a Landy and an AWD if it’s just a question of judgement or skill?

LR – wife has horses and needed something that could tow across paddocks and the like

AWD – cheap and available when my Beemer died

Handy now we live more ‘off-grid’ 🙂

LR – wife has horses and needed something that could tow across paddocks and the like

So it is worth spending money on getting the right tool for the job then.

I’ve found winter tyres no more expensive than summers.

They aren’t an additional cost – you’re putting wear on different tyres that would otherwise have gone on the summer tyres. In fact I find summer tyres wear more in winter than winter ones. In the long run, you aren’t paying any more for tyres – wear gets spread across two sets.

A set of second hand steel or even alloy wheels will run to no more than about 100 quid or 150 tops for most cars… that’s the only extra you’re paying for.

Winter tyres work better in lower temps and grimy roads – it’s not just for snow. Mine have far far superior grip in that salty wet black sludge which covers the roads most of the winter.

And besides… even if you were paying 500 quid or whatever for winter tyres, I’d rather that and have grip on that one or two days a year you need it rather than slide the car into something/another car and deal with repairs & increased insurance. Think about that next time you’re sliding along some snow towards a solid object on your summer tyres.

The difference between driving in winter on winter tyres compared to summers is amazing. I’ve not come across anyone who’s tried winter tyres who just goes back to using summers year round.

Winter tyres definitely make a difference.

Massive decrease in braking distance and much better traction.

Not driving like a bellend makes a bigger difference though!

Personally I still run summer tyres, I’ve just changed the fronts. I was seriously considering winter tyres but the new EU tyre labelling scheme put me off. I couldn’t find any winter tyres rated higher than ‘C’ for wet grip which is really the primary concern in the UK.

So I drive carefully on cold roads and carry socks in case I find an untreated road with a lot of snow. But in fairness this part of Scotland has missed the worst of the conditions

Tell your insurance company

No you don’t, not for Winter tyres.

Do you fit your winters to a different set of rims? If so this is a mod and you need to tell your insurer.

I tend to work on the principle of just not driving if the conditions are particularly bad. I tend to only drive to cart bikes around anyway.

I like the idea of keeping a second set of wheels with winter tyres on, but realistically, it’s not worth it for me, and I’d begrudge the time swapping them over.

I changed to winter tyres this year on the van back at the start of the winter.

I’m amazed at the increased performance on snow, slush and ice. It really is night and day difference. The fact that the grip better on cold, wet roads is also a bonus. The winter tyres cost exactly the same per corner as the summer tyres, so assuming I keep the van for a while the cost is neither here nor there.

To all the nay-sayers – it’s up to everyone to do their own cost / benefits analysis but you can’t really dispute the benefits of winter tyres. The fact that “I’ve been driving for 70 years in the Himilayas on £19 remoulds out of the market and I’ve never needed any more grip” is irrelevent bollocks.

We run winters on both my Octavia 4×4 and wor lasses 2wd Fabia. They are superb. We’ve hard some fairly heavy snow fall over the last few winters and they make a massive difference. The humble little fabia has left much more expensive cars stranded simply beacuse it has the correct tyres on. The Octavia with its 4×4 is unbelievable. It will cope with summers in snow, but the braking and cornering is massively improved with winter tyres. We put them on end of November and come off around March depending on conditions.

We also have winters on the works Ambulance Rapid Response cars. Its turned the fwd focus estate (lots of weight in back, light front) into something that can be driven quickly, not just in snow, but in damp conditions. The difference is massive

Tell your insurance company

Only need to tell the insurance if the wheel and or tyre size is different to any listed in the manufacturers handbook/on the wheel label on the car. FWIW my Legacy has quite a range of sizes listed..

Mrs Cat runs winters all year on her Panda 4×4 – doesn’t go fast enough for any appreciable increase in wear. Never been stuck since we bought it

My Beetle is doing a fair impression of a snowdrift and will continue to do so until it thaws, I am happily getting anywhere I want to go in the T3 Syncro.

Never fail to be disappointed by the arrogance and ignorance of some people who believe they are “weatherproof” in cars that are inherently unsuitable to the conditions.

Kryton57 – Member
Although I admit it may not have been the smartest decision, I took a 230bhp rwd auto beemer with 255’s on the rear out to a biking meet during last years snow with no issue. I drove according to the conditions, didn’t crash or slide. So to me its as much about the driver skills also, no?

Well whoop de do for you. I was held up behind a similar car 2 days ago when the hero in charge decided he could climb a road on a snow covered hill, irrespective of skill eventually, at some point, friction will be overcome.

Fortunately the Plod trying to sort out the mess, and who was bollocking him at the time, was happy for me to drive on the grass to get around him. I offered to drag him clear but all the chap wanted to do was shout at me and the Plod, I left them to it.

So, no. It’s not about the skills of the driver, it’s about common sense and consideration.

The van on winter tyres today (that have been on the van for the last 12 months), non of the neighbours had got in yet 😉

[/url]
snow van[/url] by Loco Tuning[/url], on Flickr

Obviously depends where you live, the workshop is 700 ft higher than the house and have quite a few hills to get up on the way in, along with a fairly steep lane to the house.

it’s been cold and snowy for less than a week. It’s been fine to drive more or less everywhere for most of that time.

it’ll be 10 degrees at the weekend.

i live in city that’s actually pretty good at clearing main roads.

i like the idea of winter tyres, but really not sure they’re worth the faff and expense.

my sister, who lives in the badlands near pickering, has a set of winter tyres. they make more sense for her.

The difference is like night and day. My focus was terrible in the snow and is now superb. I drove past a stuck 4×4 presumably on summer tyres while going up a snowy hill. “Skill” would not get you up this.

The cost thing is not true either. There is an innitial outlay. 4 steel wheels £100 then a set of tyres. These tyres cost the same as my summer ones and as only one set of tyres are on the car at once both sets last twice as long. So its only the cost of the wheels that is a factor.

As for time taken to change them? 40 minutes is all it takes.

Like others have said if you try them you will love them if you haven’t you should!

We’ve had this discussion before, but this lot of snow is the first time I’ve used my Nokian WR G2s properly in snow and icy slushy mess.

They are marketed as slush/snow/general winter tyres rather than out and out snow, so they are supposedly not as good on snow as the best snow tyres, but better in slush, mud and rain.

I’ve found that when braking and accelerating the wheels do slip only slightly later than summer tyres. BUT the huge difference is that when they start slipping they still grip pretty well. It’s really progressive – unlike summers that just give up completely.

I do need to take a bit of care on the snow, but I know that I am unlikely to get stuck and if there is slippage it’s just a moderate affair and I can still control the car perfectly well. I tried them out on virgin snowy carparks, and my street went from virgin snow to packed snow to slush to ice, and I had no issues at all, unlike the neighbours.

Fuel economy is amazing, much better than the Dunlop Sports they replaced and as good as the Nokian energy saving summers I have. Noise is different – much less rumble, but more hiss.

I wish I’d sprung for spare wheels when I had the chance though.

rogerthecat – Member
Mrs Cat runs winters all year on her Panda 4×4 – doesn’t go fast enough for any appreciable increase in wear. Never been stuck since we bought it

My Beetle is doing a fair impression of a snowdrift and will continue to do so until it thaws, I am happily getting anywhere I want to go in the T3 Syncro.

Never fail to be disappointed by the arrogance and ignorance of some people who believe they are “weatherproof” in cars that are inherently unsuitable to the conditions.

Kryton57 – Member
Although I admit it may not have been the smartest decision, I took a 230bhp rwd auto beemer with 255’s on the rear out to a biking meet during last years snow with no issue. I drove according to the conditions, didn’t crash or slide. So to me its as much about the driver skills also, no?

Well whoop de do for you

You have to laugh a some peoples high and mighty attitudes…

I wish I’d sprung for spare wheels when I had the chance though.

I’m thinking it’s a good excuse to get some ‘banded’ steels wheel made for the summer tyres on the van 😀

Yey, a what tyres thread

Wouldn’t do without them myself. But then, the roads I use have snow gates.

Probably wouldn’t bother if I lived in Kent.

Interestingly, this discussion pops up every year on Land Rover forums.
FWIW, I echo cp‘s thoughts.

This is the 3rd winter we have had winter tyres. I bought a set of Nokian WRG2 for just over £200 when they amazingly dipped in price for a day.

I had been meaning to get a set in the summer when they were about £64 each (my Tyres), then shot up to £88 for a few weeks so I gave up on the idea but one day I just happened to check and they were £50 so I grabbed them. The same day they went out of stock and when they came back in they were £108 each for the rest of the winter!

I put them on some spare alloys (worth about £40 scrap value) and they cost me £40 to get fitted and I am so glad I did.

The difference is simply amazing. In the cold frost, rain, snow they just make you feel so much safer. The WRG2 is discontinued now but was perfect for the UK. Designed more for slushy conditions than all out deep snow. They came out close to the best in deep snow (still many times better than summer tyres) but much better in rain and cold dry conditions than the really aggressive snow tyres.

Financially wise if you have a minor bump – eg into a curb etc it will probably cost more than I spent on these tyres. If I have a bump were I need to claim it certainly will and if I miss one days income (self employed) it’s the cost of these tyres. Also when using these tyres I am not using my normal ones so over they really don’t cost me any more over their lifetime as they save me a set of summer tyres and I will still get the scrap value for the wheels when I don’t need them.

What you can’t put a price on is the additional safety. Even a 4 wheel drive car with summer or all season tyres won’t come close in the snow/ice as they still have tyres that are no where near as good as proper winter ones. It is amazing how simple thing like parking can just be done normally with them compared to someone wheel spinning away on summer tyres but when you are stuck out on a slippery motorway or country lane then you really are glad you put them on.

So, these countries where winter tyres are the norm, do they commute as long and as far as we do? How does the volume of traffic on the M6 or M25 at rush hour compare?

I find it hard to believe the problems affecting most people can be sovled by winter tyres, although they do sound like a good idea if you live in the countryside and need to get around.

Have Conti Wintercontacts on mine (Leon Cupra). Basically an allseason tyre with the mountain and snowflake symbol.
Run them all year round now. Fuel economy is barely affected, and the wear rate is much much better then the Pirelli P6000’s that were on before.
Little bit noisier in the rain, but I can live with that.
Grip in snow is far superior compared to those P6000’s.

That’d be £630 for two weeks a year.

Absolute clap trap!

I always buy the best tyres i can get but get them from a great place in oldham who sell part worns from Germany. I picked up 4 Conti Winter Contacts in April last year for £120 (215×65 17″) and they even fitted them for me at the end of Nov for nothing when the summer ones were worn out.

OK buying part worn is a slight risk, but just make sure you are happy with what they have and agree a price on them. The place i use get first dibs on the lorry that comes straight from Germany once a week and if they have nothing i want i just wait a week, but the price difference is massive and you are getting bleeding good quality tyres as oppose to cheapo new things.

The hardest part is finding somewhere local that gets first pick off the lorry, as they do several drops before returning like flower lorries from the Netherlands do with florists.

And the result, amazing! I took a side road to work on the top of saddleworth hills and it drove up without batting an eyelid even though the snow was deeeper than the belly of the car.

WOuld i spend £600 on tyres, winter or summer NO, but for £30 a corner with over 3/4 of the tread left then yes everyday!

Yet to hear a negatiove experience of using winter tyres…

Tell your insurance company

No you don’t, not for Winter tyres.

Do you fit your winters to a different set of rims? If so this is a mod and you need to tell your insurer.

Using the same size tyres as the first year I fitted them to my C-Max, I put them on my Ford alloys. Now have a set of Ford steel wheels of the same size. Conveniently, Ford make nice looking 5-spoke steel wheel, and its standard on a C-Max, so no modification there.

Kryton57 – Member
That’d be £630 for two weeks a year.

Seeing as I live in the SE, the family car is part time haldex 4wd and the other RWD car won’t be used in these conditions I don’t think I’ll bother, but thanks.

^£650 for four winter tyres – what size? I looked around in the summer for winter tyres and wheels and found a set of new steel wheels and good quality winter tyres for just over £500 – bearing in mind my normal tyres are 19″ – yours must be enormous!

It makes a real impact regardless of FWD, RWD or AWD. I have had cars with Haldex and Torsen based AWD and it makes a hell of a difference. My wifes low-powered Focus with appropriate winter tyres will make mincemeat of your Haldex equipped car with all season rubber… It really is that significant. AWD makes so little difference in snow/ice compared to having the right tyres. My current car with Torsen AWD (60/40 bias R-F) is so much better with winter tyres during the cold months of the year. Also it is not only a couple of weeks they are useful – put them on at the endo October/early-November and take them off in March. Winter tyres also don’t equal snow tyres – they are a step better agin in these conditions, but not justifiable in this country IMHO.

The AA says this: Winter tyres are not really suited to all year round use though – summer tyres will give better performance when temperatures are higher and roads dry – so you’ll need two sets of tyres if you’re going to choose specialist tyres for winter.

AND

As an alternative you could consider buying ‘All Season Tyres’ which also have a high silica content for low temperature flexibility and a tread pattern somewhere between a normal summer tyre and an out-and-out winter tyre. Like all compromises they’re unlikely to be as good as the best specialist tyre but can be expected to work better on wintry roads than a summer tyre and you will avoid the hassle and cost of swapping wheels/tyres twice a year.

The RAC says this: The main benefit is the improved handling and braking efficiency (reduced braking distances) you can expect to get from them. However, for them to be effective the temperature needs to be below around seven degrees centigrade. They do not guarantee the prevention of a skid, or getting stuck in snow, which some buyers might imagine.

Here’s a link with stopping distances: http://www.selectatyre.co.uk/car-tyres

All season tyres are probably best for the weather we have in Scotland. Decent high silica content summer tyres are probably best for England.

So, these countries where winter tyres are the norm, do they commute as long and as far as we do? How does the volume of traffic on the M6 or M25 at rush hour compare?

I find it hard to believe the problems affecting most people can be sovled by winter tyres, although they do sound like a good idea if you live in the countryside and need to get around.

1). Doesn’t really matter. They are better end of.
2.) Yes it does – and people have more confidence which always helps