If Stevie Smith wins tomorrow on 650b (or even Mitch on a 29er!)….

Will it be the final nail in the coffin for 26″ wheels?

Stevie Smith Fastest in Qualifying

Stevie is no stranger to the top of the podium and PMB is a very pedally track, but Mitch in second and on a 29er Enduro, faster than Gee? That’s mad. Really mad.

Seriously if a 29er short travel bike ends up on the podium it will be pretty amazing and if Stevie does win, I think we will see 26″ at least temporarily relegated to the long grass (there will be a revival about five years down the line as interest in the old size picks up again in the same way that hard tails became cool again about five years after suspension became mainstream).

not really just that PMB is a bit of a lame track in some ways for DH.

There was a bit of this going on in Canberra when Peaty won on the V10.

I’m the biggest 29er fan out there but it’s very much horses for courses (I know it’s clichéd). If the worlds were at fort William we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Yes, it would be a big thumbs up for bigger wheels if someone riding them won, but it wouldn’t put the nail in the coffin of the 26er.

or if either of them don’t win will it convince you that 29/650 is rubbish?

Remember that this was timed practice rather than qualifying. I’d bet quite a few of the big names have plenty extra to give on race day

This is the most total amazeballs thing I have read about cycling on the interweb today ,thankyou 😯

or if either of them don’t win will it convince you that 29/650 is rubbish?

No but it might convince me that there isn’t enough of a difference to be of any material value, at least as far as 650b goes. Since the 29er is not even remotely a DH bike I think you couldn’t really draw any conclusions other than someone rode a 29er enduro bike in the World Champs and came ‘X’.

Its Llandegla compared to the rest of the tracks on the ciruit. Looks a lot of fun though

Also just noted it was not qualifying but timed practise. Apologies for the mistake. It does reduce the relevance of the result quite a bit I guess.

Yeah, it’s like Gwin at Sea Otter, interesting but not really representative. Think it’s a crying shame to have the worlds at PMB, it’s fine as part of a varied season but it’s not a representative or balanced course.

Having said that, IMO the only reason there hasn’t been 29er and 650b wins on proper dh tracks so far is just the lack of kit, IMO- especially tyres.

Anyone who’s surprised to see contenders on 650b probably just needs to pay more attention- partly because there’s obviously a big push towards it so serious guys are riding on it, but mostly because it’s just not that big a difference so once the kit is in place it’s really just a matter of time. Whether or not it’s better or worse.

The real shock wheel/tyre wise is that we’ve had someone win a worldcup on Kenda this year. What are the odds of that?

A 26″ bike will never be spotted in the Surrey Hills again…

A rubicon

Think it will all change come Sunday….

anyhow Mr Clementz did OK on 26in wheels in the EWS 😛

Having said that, IMO the only reason there hasn’t been 29er and 650b wins on proper dh tracks so far is just the lack of kit, IMO- especially tyres.

Tyres or not, I can’t see a 29’er winning on a proper track anytime soon.

ChunkyMTB – Member
A 26″ bike will never be spotted in the Surrey Hills again…

We knew that as soon as the Five got updated

You’re talking small margins of improvement bigger wheels in given situations are faster, 650/ 29er will be quicker once all setup, it’s only at matter of time ( & rider) 😉

kudos100 – Member

Tyres or not, I can’t see a 29’er winning on a proper track anytime soon.

Thing is, what disadvantage do you think it would have at, say, fort william? (assuming you can get equivalent spec parts, a proper dualply minion or butcher or whatever and a 29er Boxxer or 40)

Given how little difference there (supposedly) is between 26″ and 650b and the pressure there must be from sponsors to get riders on their latest bike I’m surprised it’s taken this long really. Maybe it’s the tyres or maybe downhillers are just a conservative bunch. Either way they need to get some wins on the bigger wheels soon or people are going to start believing that bigger wheels are just for less aggressive riding and hardcore riders ride 26″, which is hardly going to help the 650b marketing drive.

Thing is, what disadvantage do you think it would have at, say, fort william?

On a rough track like Fort William, suspension travel and geometry trump wheelsize imo.

The best any company has got to a decent long travel 29’er is specialized (150mm?) and you don’t see (gwin, ropelato) being too keen to try them on anything but pedally track without lots of technical and rough bits.

Thing is, what disadvantage do you think it would have at, say, fort william?

Right now, I’m not convinced that the wheels themselves would be up to the job. Ft.Bill is the hardest track I know of on wheels, just look at what happened to Gee at two races in a row 2 (?) seasons ago

P.S. Can’t decide if I love or hate this photo:

kudos100 – Member

On a rough track like Fort William, suspension travel and geometry trump wheelsize imo.

It seems that way, but most of the pro field run their suspension seriously hard anyway to hold the bike up (Aaron Gwin frinstance says he never bottomed out the travel once in the 2012 series, Justin Leov and Mark Beaumont both run theirs harder…) so that probably means you could lose a little travel. Geometry, considering the length of these bikes, probably isn’t the challange it is when you’re trying to build a compact trailbike, you’ve got wheelbase to burn and generally not that compact a rear end either… And at the end of the day, big wheels make rough tracks less rough.

Strength and weight are defiitely a thing… But then you’ve got world cups won on Stans Flows, and no full 29er dh rims available just now so that could be changed. Gee was allegedly using lightweight rims (though, I don’t know if I trust tbh)

All still wearing flappy baggy pyjamas though, but it’s the wheel size that’s important?

Hmmm….

29er Enduro, faster than Gee?

Looking at the results so far, this says more about the track than the wheel size.

29ers and a skin suit should do it?

big wheels make rough tracks less rough

Not convinced it is just a case of a bigger wheel making things less rough. This doesn’t take into account how the wheel size effects how to rider is able to ride the bike.

Roll better yes, but in my experience being able to pump, skip and maneuver the bike is more important when it gets rough and a smaller wheel is better for this.

What people don’t get is yeah a E29 is second in practice on a track with 60ft tables and loose flat 40km corners but that bike will climb as well a 130mm 26″. You can hate them all you want but nothing comes close to the all-round ability of a good 29″.

Gee or Greg on that bike would be 5 seconds up. No doubt in my mind.

& rider

Probably should keep Rach on the 26 DH bike to give the other girls a 1% rather than 0% chance of winning tomorrow 😀

Given how little difference there (supposedly) is between 26″ and 650b and the pressure there must be from sponsors to get riders on their latest bike I’m surprised it’s taken this long really. Maybe it’s the tyres or maybe downhillers are just a conservative bunch. Either way they need to get some wins on the bigger wheels soon or people are going to start believing that bigger wheels are just for less aggressive riding and hardcore riders ride 26″, which is hardly going to help the 650b marketing drive.

Yup the dirt jumpers and slopetyle guys are never going to go bigger than 26″ so if bigger wheels can’t start winning regularly in DH they’ll end up looking like the old man’s choice for easy rolling on the canal towpath. Given how similar 650b is to 26″ and so many big manufacturers have gone 650b only for their top bikes I’m amazed there aren’t more pros on 650b already

kudos100 – Member

Roll better yes, but in my experience being able to pump, skip and maneuver the bike is more important when it gets rough and a smaller wheel is better for this.

Mmm, I will remain on the fence- tbh I reckon the only way we’ll know for sure is when someone finally gets all the pieces together and makes a proper go of it.

If/when 29 and/or 650b become common in DH it’ll be like SPD’s. There won’t be a definitive “this wheel size is better”, each rider will just ride what they think is best for them for each course.

Gwinn knows that he can rock that 29er AM on tamer more pedally trails (PMB, not-so-downieville). He also knows that the demo 26er is faster (although not quite fast enough 😀 ) on the big boy trails; that’s why he rides it. There’s nothing more to it than that.

Just to be clear, I’m not saying that larger wheels are just for less aggressive riders. I don’t think that, but it doesn’t matter what I think. If that becomes a popular view then it’s bound to hurt the sales of larger wheeled bikes, which is why I’m sure they are pulling out all the stops to get a winner on 650b (at least).

Timed practice means absolutely nothing, nada. Half the field probably stopped somewhere on the track. Looking at the DirtTV practice vid Ropelato looks shit on the Enduro, you can tell he’s on a 29er by his complete lack of style and shady cornering.

Given how similar 650b is to 26″ and so many big manufacturers have gone 650b only for their top bikes I’m amazed there aren’t more pros on 650b already

Lots of them are, but they ain’t winning anything. Clementz and Graves have dominated the EWS on 26″ wheels.

If 29 proved to be quickest on WC DH tracks, why is that relevant to the riding most of us normally do? They’re riding way faster over far rougher terrain than I normally encounter, which obviously suits a bike with lots of straight line stability and the ability to smooth out the rough. As long as the acceleration isn’t terrible or the polar moment of inertia so bad that the rider doesn’t have the strength or power to move the bike around then something that rolls like a monster truck will be quickest. Style is irrelevant in pro DH, speed is everything.

and the xc World champs was won on……….

650b

womens

mens

29er is dead?

Well that’s settled then.

Would he be riding the 29er Enduro at Champery?…thought not.

This is a case of horses for course, quite literally.

PMB is not a steep technical DH course so the range of bikes that could do well here varies….on a course like Champery they’ll all be reaching for the 26er DH rigs again.

Its good to have this choice of bike in MTBing now but whether one wheel size does well or not doesnt sound the death knell for the other wheels sizes.

As others have said, 650b bikes won the XC Champs….this flies in the face of what 29er devotees have been saying should happen….Clementz is winning in Enduro with 26 inch wheels….and a 29er currently sits in 2nd spot in practice for the DH Champs.

There is very little predictability to what is happening or what should be happening, i’m willing to bet that a larger ingredient of the successes mentioned is down to rider skill, fitness and confidence before wheel size plays a significant role…..otherwise we’d all simply have accepted 29er for XC use, 26er for DH and 650b for Enduro….but the results are a mish-mash and dont show this.

It’s almost like the wheel size doesn’t really matter 💡