Idiot move or attempted fraud?

So our club has a minimum age of 5 yo for our youth MTB section – mainly for insurance.

We had a new member join the other day – the DoB on the form was May 2020 – so the kid is 4yo.

We went back and said sorry, we don’t take under 5.

Dad replied – “I made a mistake, brain fart it should be 2019″…….

Thought this was a bit odd – who forgets what year their kids are born?

So we did a bit of Facebook investigation, and we found a picture of said kid blowing out a ‘3’ candle in 2023……

So we asked for proof of age, so Dad sends picture of  kids passport – shows DoB as 2019, although on first look it seems to be OK.

One of the eagle eyed amongst us checked the small photo that has the DoB stamped on it – this shows DoB as 2020 – so he’s 4, not 5!

Went back and checked the other DoB and the ’19 looks fuzzy!

So we have a Dad who’s trying to lie to get his kid in to the club for coaching.

Obvs this puts us at risk as he wouldn’t be covered by the insurance and leaves us open to a whole heap of crap if it all goes wrong.

We haven’t decided quite how to word our response to him yet, but it’ll be a polite, firm no.

So do we think just dick move on Dad’s part or is it more serious due to the potential implications for us as a club and his kid as an individual?

Tell him you need to see the passport in person and take a copy or it, as photos of passports aren’t accepted by your insurance company.

He just really wants his kid to join, no big fraud thing IMO.

Irrelevant as you’re going to refuse anyway (mainly for the reason that you don’t want this dad involved, he’s clearly going to be trouble in future either way!)

you don’t want this dad involved, he’s clearly going to be trouble in future either way

Many a true word spoken in jest

He sounds like a proper prick. Quite happy to get other people into the shit with no compunction.

So do we think just dick move on Dad’s part or is it more serious due to the potential implications for us as a club and his kid as an individual?

Entitled dick move IMO, and a precursor of what else he will do while a member of the club.

I would be very direct back to them – kid is not of age, speak to us when he is, by the way we have club rules and expect all children and parents to adhere to them. Other clubs are available if you won’t get on board with our club and the way it operates.

The real question you want to be asking now is whether you want to have to deal with a parent who is willing to go to those lengths to lie about their child’s age.

Aye, if this was bmx his kids age will change quickly when he starts getting spanked in races by kids with 12months more growing behind them…

A parent who is that motivated to bend the rules for his kid is likely to be a major pain in the backside if allowed to join.

Run for the hills!

Tell him you need to see the passport in person and take a copy or it, as photos of passports aren’t accepted by your insurance company.

Completely the right move. That way it’s entirely objective, no blame can be attached to you etc. etc.

Also, people eh? My dad is involved in local cycle coaching and used to run CX sessions for kids at one of the local schools. Unsurprisingly, one of the pre-requisites was that they have a functional bike with brakes at both ends so on and so forth. Didn’t stop parents sending their kids with some proper non-functional machines. He doesn’t run it anymore…

There’s bending the rules to try and get your kid into something and then there’s doctoring official documents – is that technically some kind of forgery or fraud in itself?

If it were me it’d be a polite no now, with any future requests also getting turned down, that kind of parent is just going to be trouble.

Idiot move or attempted fraud?

Both.

The former to try and get his underage son into a cycle club and ignoring the consequences for everyone if he is injured, causes someone else to be injured or simply spends months getting thrashed by actual 5-year olds.

The latter for attempting to alter a passport.

I would say idiot move, but that’s some length to go to. I have lied about my kids ages before, last time was when he was 15 but you needed to be 16 to go kart, so we filled in the form saying he was 16 and cracked on knowing if he had an accident it would be on me for lying. I reckon most parents have told a white lie at some point for something like this…..but I don’t think too many would be knocking out a false passport to do so. Take it as a compliment as the club must be really good if he is that desperate for the kid to join.

My parents enrolled me at infants school a year early by mistake, it didn’t take the teacher long to realise something wasn’t right and the headmistress walked me home an hour later (the school was only a couple of 100 metres away). It was a genuine mistake by my mother, but very embarrassing for her, especially as I kept reminding her of the incident for the next 40 years. No official documents were tampered with though, passports and foreign holidays were a distant pipedream back then.

Thanks all.

Club secretary has sent a polite email to the bloke.

We are very popular and slightly unique in what we offer, so are generally over subscribed.

We get the occasional “my kid is only 3 but can ride like Jackson Goldstone so can he join?”

Most people accept the “sorry need to be 5” and are fine with it.

First time we’ve had falsified documents!

Reminds me of 1 (of many) reasons why the  club I’m involved in running doesn’t have U18s. Dickhaed Dads pushing their sprog because they think they’re going to be the next Cav or Ali Brownlee or whatever, when they themselves were sh1t

Its illegal to alter a passport and by extension a copy too. Like others have said steer clear.

“It is illegal in the UK to modify a passport or ID and by extension, trying to use a modified copy of an official document also incurs problems.

With regard to the original documents, tampering with a passport may fall under the auspices of the Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981, or the Fraud Act 2006, or both. If the authorities feel that they have sufficient chance of a conviction, they may press charges. The Courts view tampering with passports quite seriously: if the case is heard in the magistrates court, they can award a fine and a prison sentence of up to 6 months. In theory it can also be referred up to the Crown Court, where a sentence of up to 10 years may be given.

The UK was due to introduce an identity card some years ago, which was subsequently abandoned, but the related legislation (the Identity Cards Act 2006, now mostly repealed) also provided criminal charges for unauthorised modifications to the ID card.

With regard to photocopies, the UK passport is subject to Crown copyright protection under section 163 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 and the Data Protection Act 1998. This means that the reproduction and retaining of the details of any document covered by Crown copyright (such as passports, driving licences and birth certificates) are highly regulated: for further information, see (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/advice/crown-copyright/crown-copyright-in-the-information-age.pdf).

Unauthorised modification, as with the original documents, may be subject to criminal investigation, depending upon the circumstances and intention of the modifications”

Dickhaed Dads pushing their sprog because they think they’re going to be the next Cav or Ali Brownlee or whatever, when they themselves were sh1t

Thing is, the kids and families who really can ride trend to let their riding do the talking and tend to ‘get’ cycling culture / Rule No.1.

Tell him you need to see the passport in person and take a copy or it, as photos of passports aren’t accepted by your insurance company.

Completely the right move. That way it’s entirely objective, no blame can be attached to you etc. etc.

Does the insurance company actually make that stipulation though? There’s a difference between the insurance company actually having that requirement and a bloke on the internet telling you to say that they do. The OP’s club seemingly don’t ask other members for proof of age so it seems unlikely that it is a requirement.  The issue here is false statements and I’m not sure if making up stuff is a useful counter to that. Maybe meet fire with fire and upgrade the lie about insurers from an ‘Idiot Move’ to an ‘Attempted Fraud’ by doctoring a letter from the insurance company 🙂

For sure your right.

Just say you can see the passport is badly doctored.