iDave Diet Joinee

Well 3 hours before a 78 mile hilly sportive on Sunday I had an omelette with chorizo, spinach and butterbeans – as did The Southern Yeti. Then nothing but 500ml water until 90 mins into it, then 2 gels and an energy bar and 500ml of an 8% carb drink. Finished in 4’26” averaged just shy of 18mph, rode solo for all but 5 miles of it. Had recovery drink after, then a full English. Will use similar strategy for a half ironman in May. If you take simple carbs just before an event like that you switch off fat metabolism and it’s very hard to switch it back on, same if you take them too early into it.

Si senior

Muy bien…
*jumps up and down excitedly*
Edu, I eat alot of lentils and porridge and a bucket load of veg, my weight is stable around 68kg and I’m happy to knock out 100km every now and then (bananas and water during). The only restrictions I have on improving performance are a 39:16 and a pair of buggered lungs.

Oh and Edukator – your thoughts on Tim Noakes please? Is he wrong and if he is, why is he?

Apart from “because I saw a thin cyclist eat pasta”

If Tim Noakes has lost 15kg then it’s not surprising he’s running faster. He doesn’t say how far he can run or at what pace.

How did such a well-qualified nutritional expert get 15kg overweight in the first place? He’s allowed to use himself as an example but I’m not despite the fact my weight hasn’t varied much in the last thirty years. 66/67kg at the end of the summer and 68/69kg at the end of the Winter for 1m74.

The advice that we should reduce the fat in our diet and replace it with carbohydrate might just be the single greatest public health disaster of the past century (since it has led to the global obesity epidemic)

And I supose portion size has nothing to do with it. And he’s assuming people really have reduced fat consumption which seems highly unlikely. That really does seem a bizarre source to quote in support of your views, iDave.

I’m now struggling to discern whether you’re a **** brilliant troll or a smug tool.

And I supose portion size has nothing to do with it.

I think, and without going to extremes, you supose correct.

I reread that three times though and you’ve diefinitely aimed it at me, Molgrips. You’ve also adopted your usual strategy of inventing things I’ve said but haven’t.

I called you a pillock because you’re acting like one. You come across as thinking you know more than a professional coach based on no evidence at all. If not, then you really need to work on your forum communication skills.

In fact, you did say you thought your approach was better than iDave’s, despite the weight of anecdotal evidence on here, a fair bit of scientific evidence available if you google and a TON more anecdotal on blogs and the like. You haven’t presented any evidence beyond your study with sample size of two non-representative subjects. Struggling to see how that is not pillocky behaviour.

He’s allowed to use himself as an example but I’m not

You must be massively missing the point.

We’re not saying ‘you will definitely get fat if you eat lots of white carbs’. This is obvioulsy not true as we all know people who stay skinny and eat this stuff.

What we are saying is, IF you are already overweight, or even a bit fatter than you’d like, there is an approach that works very well for a lot of people that you might like to try.

Noakes is an example of how this has worked. It’s a valid example because he was already overweight and lost the weight. You are not a good example because you were not already overweight.

You must accept that some people do not gain weight very easily, and some do – regardless of diet.

Well on the usual pasta party the night before and müsli four hours before the start:

Last weekend: Pyrenea Triathlon. Run 18km on the plain, bike 35km up to the ski resort then ski up and down the pistes (+1800m total). 31/189 3rd V2. Madame was 5th scratch woman and 1st Vet.

Three weeks ago: Luchon Triathlon. Run 7km around Luchon, bike around Luchon then up to Superbagnères (+1150m), ski up and down an bit. 21/80 3rd V2. Madame was 3rd scratch woman and 1st Vet.

By simple carbs do you mean “sugar” or “grains, pasta, rice etc.? Because there wasn’t much sign of not being able to burn fat in those two races after eating mainly grains. (if you find the split times you’ll note I was relatively stronger on the skis than than the run)

Because there wasn’t much sign of not being able to burn fat in those two races after eating mainly grains

Again, sample size of one tells us nothing. We know many people can eat all the grains they want and have no trouble being fast and thin. This doesn’t help the rest of us though does it?

You are quite right though in that I should not use the term ‘simple carbs’ when referring to pasta, bread, potatoes etc. Fast carbs would be more appropriate as they have a high GI and an even higher GL I would expect.

We agree that a sample size of Tim Noakes also tells us nothing then.

iDave’s pre-sportive meal seems to have worked for him just as my müsli worked for me. My events were shorter in time and I started drinking diluted grape juice as soon as I got on the bike on both events. American army research suggests you can start feeding from about an hour into exercise with no risk of insulin spikes or blood sugar drops.

Waiting 90min on just water seems a long time to go unless your work rate is very, very low (touring rather than racing). Why dig into glycogen reserves when your stomach could be proving the blood sugar?

We agree that a sample size of Tim Noakes also tells us nothing then

Not really. It suggests a good way of solving a problem that many of us face.

You have never faced that problem, so your experience is not helping us solve it.

It’s like having Prince William telling us about how to make ends meet.

Why dig into glycogen reserves when your stomach could be proving the blood sugar?

Cos apparently it stops your body using fat, which would be advantageous for many reasons I suppose during a long event.

Edukator – please stop with your distracting trolling. We still haven’t sorted this out…

Pre-workout – coke…

Cos apparently it stops your body using fat

Yeti, I won’t have pre-workout cokes any more…

Good boy. Have a biscuit. Oh.

What the hell are we going to talk about today then?

On the subject of coke, I would have thought the caffeine content acting as a diuretic could be an issue?

caffeine is good for stimulating fat burning and electrolytes shut down urine output

electrolytes shut down urine output

I’m guessing these aren’t present in coke?

I’m guessing these aren’t present in coke?

…like HCFS and salt? 😈

Edit: Relevant.

On the subject of coke, I would have thought the caffeine content acting as a diuretic could be an issue?

What would concern me would be the salt content.
Were I to drink Coke.
Fortunately for me, I never really took to fizz.
It never seemed to have a thist quenching effect on me, ??.

I’ve been reading, catching up, and I’m not surprized at how the thread has progressed since a certain contributor, decided to contribute.

A few observations.
Some folk seem to be suffering with ” chronic cardio “

Grain derived products such as bread and cake may taste good.
But how much real nutrition does a person receive, from eating grains.

Molgrips.
If you really do stop taking pre-exercise carbs.
I’d be interested to see how that works out for you.

I’ve been reading, catching up, and I’m not surprized at how the thread has progressed since a certain contributor, decided to contribute.

A few observations.
Some folk seem to be suffering with ” chronic cardio “

One of them’s got to be me 🙂

What would concern me would be the salt content.

😐

Some folk seem to be suffering with ” chronic cardio “

TSY!

Im sooo glad I have a busy day today… folks, have fun chewing the fat 😛

Kev

chewing the fat

Brilliant!

Jamie – I don’t actually do that much cardio. 😐

One of them’s got to be me

I wasn’t thinking of you TSY.
In my universe, you are special
As is Jamie.
😉

Kev.
Don’t fear the fat.
Fat is, in !

That’s just the sort of thing someone who does too much Cardio WOULD SAY!

Oh shit, I’m trapped in my own addiction.

I’m going to go for a run to reflect on these accusations.

accusations

I’m not accussing you of being CC, TSY.
🙂

One of them’s got to be me 🙂

None of them will be me 🙂
/Looks up what Chronic cardio actually is

Symptoms include –

“exercise induced castration”

😯

I’m not accussing you of being CC, TSY

Call me paranoid, but… 😛

I sometimes find that I have to train simply because I have accidentally eaten a load of carbs after dinner.

Does that mean that I can’t ride them off with an interval session and the only options are sloth or suicide?

Ok then.

Questions.

What level and duration of exercise, running and cycling, does one have to do before allowing simple carbs post and pre?

For example. I go for a 40m ride @ 18mph. Does this warrant anything extra afterwards?

..or, I run 10m at a pace of 7:30….does this warrant anything post workout? If so, what?

What level and duration of exercise, running and cycling, does one have to do before allowing simple carbs post and pre?

Isn’t this is the diet sheet?

I need a copy of the latest one actually as I was singing it’s praises to some ladies last night.

Isn’t this is the diet sheet?

I am going….* insert clap of thunder*…OFF-SHEET!

Whilst I think the iDave diet makes a lot of sense (and need to get back on it :p ) I am a bit surprised about waiting 90 minutes into an event before you start taking on carbs but I guess it depends whether the goal was to perform to the best of your ability or to treat it as a training event and try and maximise fat burn/calorie loss. If the former I’d have to agree with Edukator that 90 mins is too long if you’re exercising at a reasonable intensity – you’re going to be exhausting your glycogen stores at that point and given the delay of digesting/processing carbs + it’s hard to take on 90g an hour anyway and you’re constantly playing catch-up. Surely it makes more sense to start taking on the carbs after 60 minutes so you’re remaining glycogen provides a buffer whilst you process the new carbs?
Or is the point that you are extending your stores beyond 90 minutes by converting stored fat via gluconeogenesis from the start in which case that’s interesting although still not sure I’d want to wait 90 minutes…

..or, I run 10m at a pace of 7:30….does this warrant anything post workout? If so, what?

Thanking God for the Miracle in my case 😀

For those still eating the slow carb way here is a a recipe for home made chorizo I have been using, really good for quick snacks, breakfast etc
http://www.rivercottage.net/recipes/tupperware

Duh duh duhhhrrr!

You’re a maniac!

Thanking God for the Miracle in my case

Quiet you! I know you are are quick, and barefoot? So stop self deprecating 8)

What level and duration of exercise, running and cycling, does one have to do before allowing simple carbs post and pre?

You’ve now got me thinking about the pros and cons of a pre-ride Coke.
What do you guys think?

@jamest