she was the very picture of compassion, wasn’t she?

yes the iron lady was an ironic nickname based on how fluffy and soft she was.

Born in in 1978 I grew up with her in charge, I’m sure most of you here did, and are around this age to.

So, how can you develop such sad hatred for someone when you were too young to understand?

I was too busy playing out my on bike.

I find it quite sad and pathetic. Looking back I’m glad I grew up in the 80’s and 90’s and not the 70’s

Bit different from scrawling in felt tip and misspelling the name of someone’s dead son, innit!

I think it’s commendable that Brown took the time to write a personal note, rather than having some civil servant do it for him.

So, how can you develop such sad hatred for someone when you were too young to understand?

Has anyone compared her to Hitler yet?

how can you develop such sad hatred for someone when you were too young to understand

I was born in the mid 1960’s so ‘came of age’ under Thatcher.

I think anyone over the age of 35 is probably in the same boat as me – their formative exposure to politics was during the Falklands/miners strike/poll tax and under a government that, apparently, put little store in community or working for the benefit of all.

I dislike Thatcher and most of what she tried to do, I don’t *hate* her – that’s reserved for people who do truely evil things.

Will I feel it’s the ‘end of an era’ when she dies? Yes. Will I regret her passing? No more than I would the demolition of a building that was part of the landscape when I was growing up.

Not yet. I don’t think he deserves that though

Interesting to read about pit closures…..

And to discover that actually, pit closures were started in the late 70s by the labour gov at the time….

I have to agree. All those whining about how knackered their village or town is, now the pit closed… 25 odd years ago.

MOVE !.

teamhurtmore – Member

Funny that, especially as they post so rarely. Hard at work and no time to post perhaps?

IIRC many of the frequent leftist posters on here have the sorts of jobs where you don’t have the luxury of many weekends and evenings off work. I do most of my posting here during the day because I am physically not at work, not surfing the internet when I am supposed to be hard at work. The same is most certainly true for TJ.

teamhurtmore, do you mind me asking what your own working hours are like?

Fair point binners. He did do that funny video about Hora’s bike obsession afterall.

wwaswas – I ‘came of age’ under Thatcher.

😯

Anyone remember Arthur Scargill?

JW. Not at all. Very flexible at the moment – I am currently self-employed (start 06:08:30 first shift, then flexible during the day). Any time on here comes at my own expense. This will change soon, however, and all this malarky will cease 😉

phil.w – a traumatic experience 😉

I could have chosen that phrase better, couldn’t I 😳

Anyone remember Arthur Scargill?

Was he in Dad’s Army?

I remember that he had a brilliant combover.

Anyone remember Arthur Scargill?

Now !. Thats a comb-over !.
😆

I know this may not be the most credible source, but I’ve been reading this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_miners’_strike_(1984%E2%80%931985)

Miners and the unions sound to be quite sinister.
so far.
(haven’t finished reading it yet)

It was a comb-over made out of brillo pads that had gone rusty

Rumour has it, he taught Donald everything he knows

his mates must’ve been good at getting at all that coal…

I have to agree. All those whining about how knackered their village or town is, now the pit closed… 25 odd years ago.

MOVE !.
if only life was as simple as you percieve it.

Rumour has it, he taught THE Donald everything he knows

FTFY shows some respetc pleb

Very sorry, but what most seem to overlook is that A LOT of people still do.

We’ve only re-located those jobs to cheaper, as dirty, parts of the world.
While we still benefit by receiving the goods from India and China.

My post went on to say that they still do – even in the UK. Last years mine disaster in the Swansea valley was a good example. Small private pit…

I have to agree. All those whining about how knackered their village or town is, now the pit closed… 25 odd years ago.

MOVE !.

I did – I moved TO the former pit village… property cheaper and all that. My point wasn’t that I was moaning about “how knackered their village or town is, now the pit closed… 25 odd years ago” – more that these communities are still suffering from the blight that was caused / inflicted by those policies. Many folks have moved on, got an education and better jobs elsewhere – all good.

But, the point being made, was that the damage done during the 1980s is still there, it hasn’t gone away or been “made better”, and that perhaps is one reason for the enduring dislike of the Thatcher Govt…

And to discover that actually, pit closures were started in the late 70s by the labour gov at the time….

Many closures started way before that. Afan valley for example, I believe closures were at their peak in the 50s / 60s.

One is certain for every single mine ever opened – it will close. Mineral reserves are finite, and every mine and mining town will inevitably suffer the decline that comes with dwindling reserves. The trick is to plan ahead for when that happens.

He didn’t like dealing with a woman …

Miners and the unions sound to be quite sinister.
so far.

the unions as they were at the time needed breaking, and Thatcher stood up and did it. Bit different from the slimy politicians we have had since, like Blair for one.

the unions as they were at the time needed breaking, and Thatcher stood up and did it. Bit different from the slimy politicians we have had since, like Blair for one.

Exactly. What do people think would have happened if we’d have had a labour government at the time!

To be fair to Brown, he did also scribble notes to the wounded when he visited them. Can’t comment on spelling, mind.

rkk01.

Ok, if you moved to a place you think has been ruined by the closure of a pit, over 1/4 of a century ago.
And you’re happy about it, then you’re not complaining ?…

Yes, finite mineral resource. Tell it to the ^^ who are still compaining about Thatcher and the pit closures.

What I’ve learnt, reading that wiki page, is that it seems to be another story about Gov owned, loss making industries of the 70s.
Where men worked, expecting the Gov and the country to support them in their loss making jobs.
We simply couldn’t afford it. Loss making pits had to close.

Funny this. It reminds me of stories about the gold rush in the US.
Where towns sprung up, the gold flowed.
But when the gold ran out, so did the folk.

So… why not here in the UK ?.
Once the coal ran out, or the pit closed.
Just move, if you have to, for work.

Days lost to striking had to be addressed.

So – you pit has been closed down, unemplyment has gone from under a million to obver 3 million.

Where do you move to to get a job?

That is such a naive view – I was in the workforce in those days. In 1977 I went to a small local hospital for a job – and was given one. I went back in 1980 looking for a job – there was a waiting list of 60 people looking for jobs there.

It didn’t matter what you did – jobs were simply not available for the vast majority of folk.

This was a deliberate policy to drive down the cost of labour – and the result is the social dysfunction we still have today.

think Bob Crow and the hassle he causes – then multiple it several times and give him more power (and hair) : and then you get close to Arthur Scargill…

TandemJeremy – Member: jobs were simply not available for the vast majority of folk.

Some truth in that for some folk.

This was a deliberate policy to drive down the cost of labour

One man’s “deliberate policy to drive down the cost of labour” is another man’s “introduction of important structural labour market reforms, subsequently copied by other nations”

Truth probably somewhere in the middle.

This was a deliberate policy to drive down the cost of labour

Ignore him

This was a deliberate policy to drive down the cost of labour – and the result is the social dysfunction we still have today.

Thatchers government encouraged Nissan, Honda, etc into this country – which proved that British workers are capable of producing decent quality cars.

Why couldn’t they under Leyland and Rover prior to Honda? Nothing to do with the bolshy unions of the time. I think the unions and jerks like Scargill deserve all the blame for that era.

globalisation, easy immigration, outsourcing everything to the far east, slack parental discipline and the elevation of child rights to the point where they all think they are untouchable has had far more effect at driving down labour costs and creating the ‘social dysfunction’ that we see nowadays.

Do you really think there is no link between government policy, mass unemployment and social problems so evident now?

Do you really think there is no link between government policy, mass unemployment and social problems so evident now?

not from the policies of that era – even selling council houses had good effects on most of the dump council estates that I have ever seen.

rkk01.

Ok, if you moved to a place you think has been ruined by the closure of a pit, over 1/4 of a century ago.
And you’re happy about it, then you’re not complaining ?…

Yes, finite mineral resource. Tell it to the ^^ who are still compaining about Thatcher and the pit closures.

What I’ve learnt, reading that wiki page, is that it seems to be another story about Gov owned, loss making industries of the 70s.
Where men worked, expecting the Gov and the country to support them in their loss making jobs.
We simply couldn’t afford it. Loss making pits had to close.

Funny this. It reminds me of stories about the gold rush in the US.
Where towns sprung up, the gold flowed.
But when the gold ran out, so did the folk.

So… why not here in the UK ?.
Once the coal ran out, or the pit closed.
Just move, if you have to, for work.

Momentum – go and re-read my post. I have no complaints about where I live. It’s a bit scruffy round the edge, but that’s fine with me.

Of those “locals” (I’m not a local) that remember the miners strike, some are glad to see the back of the unions, long rakes of coal trucks and a lifestyle revolving around a dangerous and dirty industry.

Others are still deeply bitter about the 80s and the impact that decade had on their communities – Individually they may (or may not) have moved on to better things. COLLECTIVELY, they remain very bitter towards a distant Govt that had scant regard for the people on the receiving end of their policies.

My post wasn’t to “complain” or whinge about the devastation of the coal filed.

Just to point out to those in other parts of the country that the damage inflicted was very deep and has been very long-lasting.

You’re also wrong on the economics.

I’m a mining geologist by training. Coldly and dispassionately put – the biggest scandal of Thatcher’s coal policy was the SQUANDERING of the UK’s mineral resource. In mining, the economics of production are dependent on todays price. But tomorrow’s price might be higher.

The big international mining companies will mothball mines until proces rise – which they do – back to the finite nature of natural resources…

Why couldn’t they under Leyland and Rover prior to Honda? Nothing to do with the bolshy unions of the time. I think the unions and jerks like Scargill deserve all the blame for that era.

Really, that’s very short sighted – do you actually believe this??

Did the unions design the Morris Marina or Austin Allegro??
British industry as a whole – unions, management, particularly the antiquated infrastructure, was in a huge post-war rut.

The whole thing needed a huge kick up the ass, and vitally investment in new modern plant and equipment.

Management with no vision
Workforce / unions with no interest in modernising working practices
Investment – not available to finance the required modernisation

The unions should properly take part of the blame. Working practices were unsustainable – but to solely blame unions is an utterly one-sided and flawed view

To be fair though, management did commision the redesign of the Allegro and Marina so you got exactly the same car but with square headlights.

the biggest scandal of Thatcher’s coal policy was the SQUANDERING of the UK’s mineral resource. In mining, the economics of production are dependent on todays price. But tomorrow’s price might be higher.

Thats fine.
But its a gamble for a private sector company to take.
Not for a government to take, while employing people at a loss.

I did read your post.
I wasn’t saying your were complaining about your choice to live there.
Obviously you are not.
But you have remarked on the scruffyness of the relics from a past era.
Where, as an echo from WW2, the coal industry was nationalised.
By the 70s, the cost of maintaining a nationalised coal mining industry was costing us as a nation.
Financially and democratically.

Who were the unions to think that they could topple UK governments ?.

If your pit closed.
You moved, you found work else where, doing something else.
Whoever said life is fair or equal ?.
So why try to force it to be.

Life for every person on earth will never be fair or equal.

Stealing someone’s things is not fair so I assume we just shrug and say who said life was fair why force it etc
its a specious argument.

If your pit closed.
You moved, you found work else where, doing something else.

3 million + unemployed – what job and where?

Where towns sprung up, the gold flowed.
But when the gold ran out, so did the folk.

Those folk were out to get personally rich rather than intending to subsist whilst working for someone else, hence the willingness/drive to follow the “money”

But its a gamble for a private sector company to take.
Not for a government to take, while employing people at a loss.

Dead right, govt should instead pay those people to remain completely unemployed, while buying in energy from abroad