'I have never yet come across an engineer who can turn his hands to business'

This guy is an Engineer…. 😉

Sugar knew he were an engineer before he took him on, so if that’s his opinion then don’t take the guy on instead of drag him through a long drawn out ‘game show’, sorry, ‘process’ and then dump him for being an engineer. To me it was the face don’t fir but he couldn’t he arsed to ‘engineer’ a decent excuse to get rid of him….

Gary_C,
I get it, but don’t know how many else will. You have to be a certain age (old).

I get it, but don’t know how many else will. You have to be a certain age (old)

Oi – I’m not that old (not old enough to have seen him play, but a cricket fan)!

Off the top off my head I’d guess his speciality is Farokh rather than mechanics or electronics.

Interesting to see the incredible defensiveness of so many types of self-defined engineers.

Much of the argument above illustrates Lord Alan of Hackernee’s point: engineers (like all other people employed for their technical knowledge) tend to miss the point of “business”.

If you’re all such good businessmen/women, why afren’t you out there turning your great ideas into a profitbale business lead by you?

I’ll help you with the answer – you see all the techy stuff around it, but you don’t see the bigger picture. Few people like engineers, doctors, academics, lawyers, teachers, etc. do.

Accept you’ve lost this argument.

Or maybe it’s because we enjoy the technical side, instead of the side we all see on Sugar’s program.

I’ll help you with the answer – you see all the techy stuff around it, but you don’t see the bigger picture

Yes, we do. At least, some of us do. We just are either out of our comfort zone, or as above are pragmatic about risk so don’t take it, and hence lose out.

If you’re all such good businessmen/women, why afren’t you out there turning your great ideas into a profitbale business lead by you?

For many it can be becuase that is not where their interest lies. Not everyone’s be all and end all in money.

Plus people here are not claiming they are great businessmen/women but that many Engineers are. Not a difficult concept to grasp.

If you’re all such good businessmen/women, why afren’t you out there turning your great ideas into a profitbale business lead by you?

I suspect because they get paid a tidy wage to not have to worry about running their own business with all the stress and long hours that entails. Not everyone wants to be a millionaire. No, I’ll rephrase that. Not everyone wants to work their wotsits off for a few extra quid when their current wage – and hours – keep them in a comfortable lifestyle with time to ride their bike.

Or maybe it’s because we enjoy the technical side, instead of the side we all see on Sugar’s program.

See, that’s fine. and that’s part of what he is saying (though he is an odious twonk, and sees “business” as selling crap products to consumers – ironic then that he’s made most of his money through property investment).

I’m a lawyer, so recognise this. Most lawyers are hopeless business people – they have no concept of where to blur the lines or ignore something altogether. What they’re into is accuracy on legal points and aversion to all risk. Engineers – on the whole – fall into the same category: really good at getting incredible detail just right, but ultimately not driven by how to maximise profit.

The part of the business I work for was founded by teo engineers. Between them the cross the continuum from precision and risk aversion to entrpreneurship.

I like engineers, but for the most part it shouldn’t be assumed that being technically really good at something lends itself to beign really good in a different sphere.

I’ll help you with the answer – you see all the techy stuff around it, but you don’t see the bigger picture. Few people like engineers, doctors, academics, lawyers, teachers, etc. do

Few people who aren’t engineers etc. make is as business people either – for every SAS there are thousands of failed barrow boys. The fact us lot aren’t successful businessmen doesn’t prove his point any more than the fact all the other people on here who aren’t engineers and aren’t successful business people disproves it.

You’re also missing the point that has been mentioned on here, that proper engineers with professional training will have done business and been trained to look at the bigger picture, so have a pretty good idea of profit and loss. Reinforcing the point that being a techy doesn’t make you an engineer.

but for the most part it shouldn’t be assumed that being technically really good at something lends itself to beign really good in a different sphere

Neither should it be assumed that they’ll be rubbish in a different sphere. The best engineers are likely to be really bright folks who can turn their hand to other stuff.

I like engineers, but for the most part it shouldn’t be assumed that being technically really good at something lends itself to beign really good in a different sphere

True enough, but the reverse is also true. Just because you are a good engineer it should NOT be assumed that you’re rubbish at business.

I’ll tell you what, ourmaninthenorth, your last post shows something:

lawyers are as bad at spelling as engineers!

ourmaninthenorth: Thats not really the point though is it?

If you wan’t to be a teckie you don’t wan’t to be an entrepreneur? What a lot of people are saying is that engineering gives you many skills that are highly desirable in the city/accounting/buissness etc.

Hence if you have an engineer who is motivated to do buissness then they have an excellent skills base to make it. In my buissness the best managers are engineers that have gone to the commercial side …not QS’s who know the cost of everything and the vale of nowt!

Not quite the point I was making, though I concede my hasty typing hasn’t made a great impression….

My view of the world is this:

There is a continuum of risk analysis. We all fit into it, and we apply it to our daily lives. To one side is complete risk aversion – you don’t leave the house for fear of a car crash. To the other is recklessness – you run through fast moving traffic.

Professionals are employed – on the whole – to take a measured approach to risk. Vast technical knowledge allows a more precise analysis of that risk. But, the differenence is – in the eyes of Sugar – that what that professional does with the risk is different from his “business person”.

The professional says “here is the answer to whether or not you will go to court/that building will fall down/that plane will stay in the air”. The Alan Sugar “businessman” says “if I do this, I’ll make £x million” and tends to play down the risk of not making the money.

Of course, this is true of so many people, whether they’re technical experts or not, and so it is perfectly possible to be both good engineer and good risk taker. But, as I said before – on the whole – being a precise person whose primary focus is on the technical does not naturally lend itself to the Alan Sugar model of “business”.

I haven’t read every thread of this one but Sugar hasn’t met a lad that used to ride with us yonks ago. He worked at the time for Black & Decker as an engineer, focusing on the electrical side of things. Even then I thought ‘Knoxy’s gonna go places’, he was building lights out of bits of plumbing & 18v drill batteries with 10 amp bulbs, experimenting all the time (this was back in the late 80’s) He got into diving & built himself one of those motors that pull you along underwater which actually worked. This is him in blue…

This is his page on LinkedIn,

http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksknox

I’m sure there’s many more like him out there too.