How to deal with E-Bikes on Strava Segments

Wow if you genuinely care about a KOM on strava that’s pretty damn sad,

The only thing sad is not having empathy for other people’s enjoyment . To the OP flag them and put a polite message on their ride. It’ll work with some but not others. Judging by some replies on here from the e-mtb fanboys, my assumption that E-mtb’s are attractive to the selfish me me generation who don’t give f@#$% avout anyone else is correct.

I had a KOM for 18 months on a segment I had only ridden once.

I say ridden…I actually mean walking slowly, pushing my bike and breathing out my arse up a long flight of steps.

They all count! (Humblebrags not withstanding. I had one up Buckden Pike which involved eating my sandwiches and having a wee. Not a quick one either.) Some are mainly about the speed you can open and close gates. Whatever, these are all important mtb skills. Never mind your wheelies and manuals.

Out on the trail, surely we should be adopting a “steam gives way to sail” principle for e-bikes?

I managed to get 2nd on a 2 minute climb by beating all the local riders who have good times everywhere (the same people are om the top ten on most segments)
My average speed was 11mph up the climb. The rider with the KoM averaged 16.5 mph up the climb so clearly on an eBike and annoying that I have missed a KoM (I don’t have that many!)

Given e-bikes cut out at 15mph you may just have come across someone fast. Interestingly I smashed up one of the steep (think the sign is about 18%) road climbs near us on my levo in turbo which has had a few pros and a lot of very fast riders up it. I’d count myself as fairly fit and i was totally knackered at the top. Turns out i was only about 16th of all time; amazing what the top level guys push out. Don’t worry though, i switched it to e-bike shortly after to avoid causing huge upset to number 17.

Rubbish, it works fine for MTB as it is. Any off road rides will be on MTBs rather than road bikes so they are separated naturally.

That’s sort of my point. You only get mtb KoM by accident of design, same as you’d get them in a scull on a river simply because there are no road bikes. That doesn’t mean it’s designed for rowing.
That same accident of design means (legal) ebikes on road aren’t challenging the properly quick for KoM any how, its self selecting. It does mean they can top leader boards off road though because, you’re only getting KoMs on your mtb because it’s (or at least should be) quicker off road than a road bike. (a road ebike should fair badly off road regardless of being an ebike, does that mean your human powered mtb is cheating?)

Ultimately is getting cross that its not been designed to solve a problem with using it for something is not designed for.

That’s the point, it’s about you challenging you but in relation to the limits of what is possible, so comparing yourself to others is essential in determining those peaks of performance. Like in running, in cycling the great thing is that this is relatively pure in terms of human performance (drugs/ cheating/ and small variances in bike technology aside) – compared at least to other forms of ‘racing’ cars/boats etc..where equipment can be more dominant.

Ebikes change that aspect of cycling massively.

Given e-bikes cut out at 15mph you may just have come across someone fast.

No, that is not possible. The top 10 is made up of the fastest people (who log times on Strava) around the forest. The top ten ranges from 9.3mph to 10.3 mph and I posted 10.8mph. Just went back into Strava and checked and I now have the KoM as flagged the ride earlier after reading this thread and the rider who was hitting 16mph is now second with 10mph so that must have been their second best time (without using an eBike I would guess)

I had better get down the pub and brag to everyone I have another KoM…

i exported a .gpx file from another package into strava a while back and it imported the ride at the average speed of the ride. everywhere. which was very flattering uphill and bagged me a few KoM’s but not so flattering downhill.

deleted it once i’d worked out what had happened.

surely we should be adopting a “steam gives way to sail” principle for e-bikes?

That doesn’t work though – pedal bikes are still powered just like rowing boats don’t get priority over ‘powered’ boats. Or do you have a purely wind-controlled bike? 😉

There is one spurious section on a local mtb ride of ours that runs sort of parallel at times with a road, I would say parts of it are at least 2/300m away from the road, however my old kom was taken by a bastid roadie blasting down the tarmac. If he and quite a few of the others had actually done it at that speed I would have bought them a 🤴 myself 😂

Or do you have a purely wind-controlled bike?

I’ve purely wind powered posting about bikes. Does that count?

@wrightyson one of the things which amuses me (and very much confirms my “it’s only me I’m competing with” approach to strava) is how bonkers some of the segments are.

I ride the same route to work and back most days is rare I get the same segments logged 3 days out of 5,i pick up concurrent ones, overlapping ones, and so on but today for instance I logged 11 of the 18 different segments on my commute. Yesterday picked up 13 and 3 of those weren’t on today’s log, despite my route being to with a fraction of a lane width either side of yesterday’s.

I ride the same route to work and back most days is rare I get the same segments logged 3 days out of 5,i pick up concurrent ones, overlapping ones, and so on but today for instance I logged 11 of the 18 different segments on my commute. Yesterday picked up 13 and 3 of those weren’t on today’s log, despite my route being to with a fraction of a lane width either side of yesterday’s.

if you click the bit at the bottom of the segment list that says ‘don’t see the segment you are looking for’, it’ll give a list of all the partial matches, and the reasons for not matching.

Judging by some replies on here from the e-mtb fanboys, my assumption that E-mtb’s are attractive to the selfish me me generation who don’t give f@#$% avout anyone else is correct.

Sweeping assumption-tastic there fella.

if you click the bit at the bottom…

Indeed, I’m not bothered per se, just very much reinforces my opinion that its only so much “use” and getting het up about how other folk use it and with what bike etc is a bit daft since the only data you can view objectively is your own and that of the folk you were riding with.

I tend to look at Strava times (on uphill segments) as a rough guide to what I should be aiming for if I’m going well – so if the top 10% is stuffed with ebikers, there is no chance of me getting in there.

On some of the segments around here the top 10s are hilarious – leader (by 30 seconds on a 4 minute segment) will be someone with 59 miles this year who is like lightning on the uphills, and mediocre at best on everything else, second is some chubber with similar mileage, third is someone doing 3 peaks cyclocross training, fourth is some old fella with pics of his Trek Superfly attached, with loads of genuinely quick local guys making up the numbers.

I tend to flag if it’s obvious from the pics or the description, in the hope that Strava will nudge a few of them towards classifying them as an ebike ride in future.

t’s about you challenging you but in relation to the limits of what is possible, so comparing yourself to others is essential

The simple solution I guess is to look at the times of names you recognise as genuine speedy and ignore all the randoms. Round here it’s generally Alex Pilkington or Pete Keron…

I know that there are folks around us specifically going out on ebikes to get fastest times on segments. I also know there are some people that will be riding the overgate mtb challenge in a few weeks on an ebike because it doesnt have an ebike category and they can come in the top 50 or whatever.

the issue was that whilst i was actually riding up the hill and these are narrow bridleways, it isn’t a great deal of fun having someone constantly buzzing your back wheel and wanting to get past

So why mention the fact he was on an e-Bike then? Just inconsiderate riding surely?

you should be able to click buttons for group/solo, wet/dry, night/day, etc etc

That’s actually more important on road than off, as on flat segments being in a group makes an enormous difference.

A few of the regular top 10s on my local trails are STWers. Bastards.

Increasingly these days Strava is a means of measuring my decline 😢

Knowing that I’m just outside the top ten on a segment can be a remarkable spur to put some effort in but generally I’ll be in the top 10% or so for any given segment and as Martin says, round here the top ten is usually full of the usual suspects like Alex P and Paul Oldham.

As above – group riding (done correctly) on road makes a massive difference. There’s a local segment from Rylstone down to the Craven Heifer just outside Skipton “Blast down South” it’s called. My best time in a group is 7.5mins but my best solo time is at least a minute slower, possibly more.

“How to deal with E-Bikes on Strava Segments”

buy one and have some fun

@molgrips i mention they were on e-bikes as i would hope there is an expectation when you’re on one, that there is a good chance when you are going up a long climb, that you may well be quicker than others, and that in having that expectation you’d have the manners to realise or appreciate the harder effort the person not on an e-bike is having to put into the climb to get up it, and therefore treat them with a little consideration.

As stated i have no issue whatsoever with e-bikes, there just needs to be some consideration by those using them especially on long events/ climbs, that others may be slower than them and be considerate to the fact.

A few of the regular top 10s on my local trails are STWers. Bastards

Rubbish, no one here actually rides a bike.

I know that there are folks around us specifically going out on ebikes to get fastest times on segments. I also know there are some people that will be riding the overgate mtb challenge in a few weeks on an ebike because it doesnt have an ebike category and they can come in the top 50 or whatever.

This makes me sad. But not as sad as the folk doing it.

Rubbish, no one here actually rides a bike.

I have my moments, did I mention my 🤴’s earlier?

I’ve got my son in to it of late, he’s 14 and I’ve made it perfectly clear it’s not an indication of a lot. However he does like to see how he’s beating adults down certain sections and he genuinely uses it as a tool to time runs on sections we session often, he can then play with different lines etc the next time he rides.

In the real world he’s been mid table when racing for real this year so far, so that keeps his head in check, he’s giving 18 months away to most riders in his age group so hopefully he can improve on that.

I have an Ebike.
When i go out to the forest i get left for dead by several of the (admittedly) younger and considerably fitter guys in my riding group.
So I’m of the opinion that a young, fit rider is quicker than an Ebike.
Certainly, when i was in my 20s, I could go much quicker than i can go on my Ebike nowadays.
I’m 50 btw.
I don’t use strava, although I have an account.
If i did, being beaten wouldn’t bother me at all, I’m not proud, but i can understand why someone might be annoyed at being ‘beaten’ by someone with a battery.
But ultimately, unless they admit it, you’ll never actually know if they did or not.
I accept, of course that it’s all utterly pointless.
Happy trails folks.

I have my moments, did I mention my 🤴’s earlier?

You did, but by way of comparison, facebook says I’ve got 100s of friends, and strava is just Facebook for cyclists isn’t it? 😉

But have you got any 🤴’s…..

Dry prime ground conditions, Tail winds, TT bikes. drafting, riding in a bunch, Ebikes, heading out especially to target one segment?
there’s not a whole lot of difference really.
Strava is rarely a level playing field. If you want that. race for real.

There are guys who come over here from the City especially to hunt KOMs on dull bridleways/shared paths all lycra’d up on carbon CX bikes. Kinda odd but whatever.
it’s not worth moaning about.

Old ladies in cars pass all the time! You must be beside yourself! They dont even record themselves on strava. Cheats!

But have you got any 🤴’s…..

Seems there’s no prizes for being the minceiest of mince core.

(i just went to check what the top times were over one of the climbs on my commute and it seems to have been cheated today, someone clocking 60kph average over 1k up hill, I doubt that’ll stay. 2nd is 36kph over the same I struggle to do that on the flat!)

Dry prime ground conditions, Tail winds, TT bikes. drafting, riding in a bunch, Ebikes, heading out especially to target one segment?
there’s not a whole lot of difference really.

Not a whole lot of difference? All fair game – except for the EBike. Was looking at Chris Froome’s stats recently, the VAM figure is interesting (Vertical Ascent Metres per hour), his KOM’s for a sustained 30min climb are around 1600 VAM. I’ll be happy with anything over 1000VAM. A guy took a KOM off me offroad and his VAM was around 1500 for 20mins, which raised suspicion. Thats bonkers fast, really surprised me, possibly de-restricted I suppose. From comments above it seems ebikers get some satisfaction out of this, which is weird as it’s not the rider doing most of that work it’s a motor, so where does the sense of achievement come from other than hurting Stravaists fragile Ego’s.

As stated i have no issue whatsoever with e-bikes, there just needs to be some consideration by those using them especially on long events/ climbs, that others may be slower than them and be considerate to the fact.

Same consideration that everyone needs everywhere tho.

Hmm, hadn’t considered VAM as I wasn’t sure what the hell it was (you can tell I’m deadly serious about all this!). Not many climbs where I’ve taken an hour until I remembered I just beat the hour for Puig Major on Majorca which has 826 metres of ascent so I’d say my maximum VAM was in that sort of ball-park.

At the other end of the scale my wife and I were out touring and on one climb I got a puncture so fixed that and thought “I might be last on Strava!” Except I wasn’t, I was next to last 😕

I remember flagging one Strava KOM as dubious. It was the one going up Five Rise Locks in Bingley – the KOM time for going up was faster than the KOM for the descent segment! Looking at the activity the guy had been heading down the way but the trace just went weird with him apparently going down, up then down again. I suspect the GPS/Strava just got a couple of errant pings and interpreted them as him going up the ramp.

Was looking at Chris Froome’s stats recently

the VAM figure is interesting

really?

Vag interests me but I’ve genuinely no idea or interest in what vam even is.

cyclists baffle me.

I remember flagging one Strava KOM as dubious. It was the one going up Five Rise Locks in Bingley – the KOM time for going up was faster than the KOM for the descent segment! Looking at the activity the guy had been heading down the way but the trace just went weird with him apparently going down, up then down again. I suspect the GPS/Strava just got a couple of errant pings and interpreted them as him going up the ramp.

Quality of life restored.

Pwew!

Only reason I want an ebike is for strava ha ha ha

VAM= rate of climbing. You can clearly see it when viewing Strava on a desktop, but not so visible in the app. Most Garmin units can display it as a metric either instantly or averaged over 30seconds. For those of us who like seeing how quickly we can haul our asses up mountains it’s useful, but VAG’s are cool to.

I’m more bothered about ****ts cutting corners and putting multiple lines in on established trails to make not overly technical trails simpler. If you’re that fussed, get a bloody road bike and ride in a straight line.

“So the EBikers don’t compete on the existing segments, they have to make new one’s. Makes sense now. That seems like a Strava flaw they need to rectify- surely would’nt be hard to seperate the data into two streams per segment as they do it for QOM/KOM anyway.”

Considering I set up about half the local strava segments (years ago!) there was no way I was going to set them all up again for e-bikes. And it won’t let you make such short segments nowadays, even though we have plenty of short steep trails that track fairly accurately.

So on my ebike I just set my rides to private so I don’t show on leader boards. I can see my times if I want to but I’m not messing up the non-e results. It’s a bit annoying because I ride the ebike both turned on and off and if I break a DH PR or get higher up the leaderboard it would be nice to be there but then again I don’t care that much nowadays!

It shows how fit some XC riders are because even with the motor on it’s not easy to beat KOMs.

cyclists baffle me.

Why do you spend time on a cycling forum then ??