you have to accept that cars are needed in the modern world

There’s that word “need” again.

Do so many people really “need” to live bloody miles away from where they work?

Do so many people “need” cars for every member of the family and a couple of spares?

Do people “need” to make ridiculous short journeys when they could easily walk or cycle?

The point is that driving is not without cost and that most of the cost is born by people who get no benefit from it – ie indigenous populations who have their resources exploited to manufacture and power it and the entire global population that will bear the cost of climate change if we don’t curb car use.

There’s that word “need” again.

Do you need and in depth explanation or can I assume that you really do know what I mean?

However, understanding where those traits came from, and justifying their continued proliferation in the face of mounting evidence that its destroying our planet, are two different things.

+1. We aren’t in caves anymore and don’t have to behave like alpha’s, we are at least intelligent enough to know this. Except when we are coerced into thinking primitively, “survival of the fittest” looking after no.1.

We have a fleeting existence on this rock, and we waste it worrying about man made problems such as global economics and the like. Is all this stuff strictly necessary? While Humans have always traded, it has come to the point where it dominates our lives pretty much all the time. Time to turn the control down from number 11.

Or even time to throw it away. This may not be in-keeping with the environmentalist agenda of the OP, but this is something I certainly wouldn’t want re-cycled.

We can’t keep consuming the way we are, we may think we are trying to give our Children a good future, but in my view we are damaging it.

It’s curious how we are made to think about economics on a global scale, all our economies are interconnected, yet we are still in competition with everyone else over everything else, nation against nation competing with each other. Perhaps one day will think of Humanity on a global scale, instead of just what nationality we are.

My inner hippy has now retreated back into the cupboard, but will be putting in more regular appearances in the future. 8)

RPRT – as it happens I tend to agree with you BUT I don’t pretend to be all holier than thou nor do I stereotype people by the car they drive…

FWIW I live a couple of miles away from my work and cycle in whenever possible. My total annual car mileage is around 6000 miles. I do like driving cars though.

I wonder how that compares with the hair shirt brigade on here… 🙂

fervouredimage – Member

A night out with you must be a barrel of laughs.

I believe the correct response is to post-up a piccie of a handbag but I don’t think that’ll be very constructive.

I must say that your reaction has given rise to a few chuckles this end and if I were you I’d take a stand back and have a think about why you really repsonded to that post at all. But let’s take a look at it for a second – you’re attempting to take the piss out of me for having a real-world version of the discussion we’re having right here on this thread. You’ve also expressed opinions on this topic and I’m assuming you formulated them before today, which means there’s a good chance you’ve gone over them with another person at some point, although that’s obviously a guess and not a given. Surely, taking both points into account, you can see the absurdity of your somewhat flippant comment ?

And the first response was also rather childish…

No, not really, because you’ve picked on an utterly moot point and ignored the over arching theme of my post.

I’ve re-read your post and still can’t see anything in my response that makes you think I don’t understand you. You used words like “absolutely” and “unequivocally” in relation to how folk percieve themselves.

As others are quoting Fight Club I’ll follow…

I would flip through catalogs and wonder, “What kind of dining set defines me as a person?” We used to read pornography. Now it was the Horchow Collection.

Kind of captures your point, yes? Now whilst I agree with it to some extent I wouldn’t be so gullible as to propose that everyone fell into that catagory. How could I possibly know for sure. I doubt I’d be able to give even a close approximation to the percentages to be honest.

Your statement was, as I wrote, a sweeping generalisation. If I’ve missed the point then maybe you’d like to elaborate instead of sulk. I know I’d feel the need to express further if I felt I’d been misunderstood, maybe you do too, considering the gravity of the subject, eh…

I wonder how that compares with the hair shirt brigade on here…

That’s not really the point.

How you compare with others in the UK isn’t really significant.

How WE compare with people in other countries is way more important.

The difficult truth is that OUR way of living is unsustainable – it’s too resource intensive and too polluting to continue – if you are relying on having everything you have now in the future then you are deluded. If you really want to do something for yourself then you should follow the likes of Edukator and ween yourself off stuff you don’t need now while you can do it painlessly instead of waiting for it to be taken away. Living with less isn’t about being virtuous, it’s about being resilient and protecting yourself from inevitable future shock.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy6iwP9Ux3A[/video]

http://www.guylaramee.com/index.php?/intro/
was looking at this today.it’s pretty good.

‘night.

RPRT – by the way you dodged the question I suspect my way of life probably has less impact than yours so I think it is you that has missed the point…

Easy to talk the talk though, eh. What are YOU personally doing?

So to recap, even though the natural resources of this world are running out, even though the planets surface is becoming more and more inhospitable to our race, even though there is an entire universe of dangers out there in the vast ness of space and much closer.

It is more important for each of us to exercise our right as free individuals and put our perspective across, than it is to work together to make the world a better place, who needs development and evolution, when you could go for the big online thread win, you ass is grass bitch an I iz de vaporizer.

That gentle madams and ladies is the problem, we need to stay focused on the solutions to our problems and stop the psychological sabre rattling, we are a race with the capacity to understand the very laws of creation, there is nothing on earth or in the heavens that could be denied us.

But do not let that stop you, prepare your hand bags keyboard badass’s, CARRY ON!

I’m lucky enough to live somewhere very similar to what you describe.

Small 2 bedroom cottage surrounded by fields, which I have insulated to levels that means it needs hardly any heating even in the middle of winter.
12v lighting powered by solar (battery storage) so rarely need mains power for lighting.

Not quite energy neutral yet but getting there.

My workshop is bigger than the house (and I spend more time in than I do in the house.)

We have worked hard, but we hardly consume much at all now we are sorted.

I want a property that’s a good size, not massive and only for function, but I really want to build it myself with a different take on technology in relation to energy consumption!

Have you ever considered trying to create some kind of engine for power?

What about vegetables and food, do you farm your own?

Have you ever considered trying to create some kind of engine for power?

Out of what and running on what?
Surely you should be thinking about reducing consumption rather than alternative ways of producing?

Don I am not in a handbag mood, sorry!

Don I am not in a handbag mood, sorry!

You’ve lost me. 😕

kaesae sexgod

Don I am not in a handbag mood, sorry!

Donsimon small member
You’ve lost me.

Unfortunately and apparently not! 😉 😀

You’ve really lost me now. 😐

kaesae – Member
What about vegetables and food, do you farm your own?

We do grow a bit but nowhere near enough to be self sufficient. It’s more of a hobby.

With proper insulation any house can be made very energy efficient.

Although it is an easier task in a new build. But I like old houses. Plus my profession is insulation of “hard to treat” properties, solid walled, stone build etc.
So I suppose I would be daft not to use my skills etc to do my own place.

And don simon is spot on too.

Reducing energy consumption is the first thing to do.

Production is always second.

The main reason being, If you don’t reduce consumption first, you need to produce more. Making the job a lot harder.

But if you reduce your energy need first, you make producing enough to keep you going a lot easier.

Yes especially when you can save mucho £££££

My flat is awful, the walls are chalk and hollow, trying to hang stuff can be tricky and if you are drunk and fall into the wall 50/50 if you go through it or not 🙂

Saying that I am thankful for a roof over my head and all of the little things like a fridge, food to eat or even a good bed to sleep in.

Reducing energy consumption is the first thing to do.

For this reason I’m not too unhappy to see the FITs reduced. It’ll be interesting to see how it fares with lower subsidies. It sends the wrong message.

How will you determine the best way to conserve energy before you know what the source is?

I agree on the FIT’s, although it could have been handled better.

It just shouldn’t be the first priority, although not sure it was done for the right reasons.

Will more effort be put into reduction as a result ? Will have to wait and see ?

trying to hang stuff can be tricky and if you are drunk and fall into the wall 50/50 if you go through it or not

LOL @ getting pissed and then a spot of DIY. Got that particular T-shirt 😀 In my case, “putting up” shelves.

Will more effort be put into reduction as a result ? Will have to wait and see ?

2016 and 2050 are key dates, aren’t they?

Yeah, chalk walls! they are completely hollow, chalk ceilings as well, so easy to put your foot through!

kaesae – Member
How will you determine the best way to conserve energy before you know what the source is?

Not sure I know what you mean.

Require less heat to maintain house temperature – Whatever the source.
Require less electricity – Whatever the source.

Insulation ❓ how do you ensure that you do not end up with a situation where you need to operate a cooling system in the summer?

As above, without knowing what the energy source is, how do you reduce energy consumption effectively beforehand ❓

Are there any threads on this subject?

How much does say for example cold effect energy transference in electrical systems, does it effect it at all?

2016 and 2050 are key dates, aren’t they?

They are, but deadlines are often missed 😕

Too much to do to reach the targets at the current rate of change in my opinion.

Insulation how do you ensure that you do not end up with a situation where you need to operate a cooling system in the summer?

With proper insulation and controls to reduce solar heat gain (passive controls not air conditioning).
Feast your eyes on this.

So natural sources of cool air like shade?

Insulation how do you ensure that you do not end up with a situation where you need to operate a cooling system in the summer?

Mechanical ventilation helps. (kitchen and bathrooms) and will also recover useable heat when needed in winter.

But good insulation helps to keep a house cool too.

Using 12v lighting reduces heat generated.

As above, without knowing what the energy source is, how do you reduce energy consumption effectively beforehand

It will always be electricity- however it’s produced ?

It will always be heat- however it’s produced ?

So natural sources of cool air like shade?

Orientation.
Window size.
Balcony type shading.
My personal favourite, shutters (because they’re effective in the winter and the summer).

Photovoltaic panels for shutters 💡

I’m sure friday nights used to be more fun than this.

Sounds good kevevs PARTY FRIDAY, I want to see if I can save some money, my flat is drafty and a nightmare to heat!

Photo synthetic panels for shutters

Don’t know about that mate, but with a 95% reduction in solar heat gain and adding a 30-40% improvement in winter heat loss, and the associated wonga, passive, don’t require energy to run and little or no maintenance. Use them when you want and keep them tucked away when you don’t.
After using them for ten tears in Spain, I think I can say they work and work well.

More on shading (read north as south as it’s Australian- but the sun still works in the same way).

Kaesae – Duct tape everything. it might not be pretty but you will be hermetically sealed! Then peel it off in Spring 🙂

Find the draughts, and seal them up.

Might sound simplistic, but that’s the way to start, as simple as possible.