Yes, yes, fiat is invulnerable and crypto is all pretend.

I refer you to articles 7 and 14 of the “Bitcoin Law” of El Salvador, which say the opposite.

El Salvador law only applies to ES! Buying and selling into a country doesn’t fall under national law. The reseller (who sits in ES under ES law) buys from another country (eg T-shirts from China) and the Chinese manuf can determine how they want to be paid eg Dollars etc.

I work for a Telecoms company and we sell all over the world, our terms are USD, it’s up to the local reseller / importer to figure out how to get USD from local currency and pay us (normally via the central bank). Pretty much how all international trade works. Even when selling to operators 100x larger than us, it still works this way.

It simply couldn’t work any other way we’d end up with $m in Nigerian Nira, Kanyan Shillings, etc etc, and then have the additional cost of converting them all back to USD so we can pay our suppliers. We’d then have to up our prices to hedge against 100s of currency fluctuations which would cost the reseller more etc. Basically international trade works, almost exclusively, in USD and Euros.

Yes, yes, the only people who actually know anything about crypto

It’s actually very little to do with crypto and more to do with logic and evidence rather than speculation and $$$ in your eyes.

It’s actually very little to do with crypto and more to do with logic and evidence rather than speculation and $$$ in your eyes.

Yes, yes, the only possible use for crypto is for greedy people to make lots of money.

Yes, yes, the only possible use for crypto is for greedy people to make lots of money.

That is pretty much the first sensible thing you’ve said on this thread.

That is pretty much the first sensible thing you’ve said on this thread.

Yes, yes, you’re very witty and original.

Yes, yes, you’re very witty and original.

Oh the ironing.

If nothing else the immaturity made me laugh

Yes, yes, you are very mature and superior to the vast majority of folk.

Yes, yes, fiat is invulnerable and crypto is all pretend.

Nothing in invulnerable, but fiat currencies are backed by Governments and central banks whose job it is to keep them stable etc. Crypto, by definition, has no such protection and (with the excpetion of stable coins) is completely unstable….

Why would anyone want to migrate from a stable, backed currency, to one which goes up and down like a yo yo, with no protecton etc?

Stick your money in an FSA (or equiv) approved bank account anywhere in the EU and you’re protected up to 100k Euros. If you have more than that, open multiple accounts (with diff banks). Stick your money in BCs and someone swipes your wallet, you’re on your own.

Why would anyone want to migrate from a stable, backed currency, to one which goes up and down like a yo yo, with no protecton etc?

Yes, yes, the only possible use for crypto is for greedy people to make lots of money.

I think brucewee nailed it.

For ES – I see it from 2 sides.

Micro
Easy remittance of value. This benefits the dirt poor who live hand to mouth. Volatile doesn’t matter too much as they they don’t have a lot of value to hold over any kind of significant period. using BTC lightning network – they can remit many times a day, whatever the amount for very little slippage in value – instead of Western Union once a week loosing 10%

As of January 2021, literally half of the population of ES don’t have access to the internet,and large parts of the country – the poorest – suffers regular electricity blackouts. So it won’t benefit the dirt poor but it might benefit the people who can set up businesses to help the dirt poor send and collect money via BTC/Strike. Perhaps for a 10% fee…

https://datareportal.com/reports/digital-2021-el-salvador

Blockchain – as a technology in general – undoubtedly has its uses, but my problems with crypto is that anyone can just fork off a new coin whatever they want right?

Consequently, any bet on a particular coin is to wager that somehow it will end up being the ‘true’ coin? In other words, it’s a bet that a particular coin will have the same arbitrary qualities given to it as the fiat currencies the crypto-evangelists so disdain?!

Just my opinion, of course, but you’d be better putting your money into the lottery! 😀

Perhaps for a 10% fee…

They’ll have competition at much lower rates.

If you look at Africa (I’ve worked a lot there, so just use it as an example), mobile banking has been very successful, you send / receive money via Text message (so you only need a 2G phone).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Pesa

You see it everywhere out there.

Effect on poverty in Kenya

M-Pesa is widely seen as demonstrating that it is possible to make a profit while also improving the lives of the poor.[28] Tavneet Suri, based at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and William Jack, based at Georgetown University have produced a series of papers extolling benefits of M-Pesa. In particular, their 2016 article published in “Science” has been very influential in the international development community. The much cited result of the paper was, that ‘access to M-PESA increased per capita consumption levels and lifted 194,000 households, or 2% of Kenyan households, out of poverty.[29] Global development institutions focusing on the development potential of financial technology frequently cite M-Pesa as a major success story in this respect, citing the poverty-reduction-claim and including a reference to Suri and Jack’s 2016 signature article. In a report on “Financing for Development”, the United Nations write: “The digitalization of finance offers new possibilities for greater financial inclusion and alignment with the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development and implementation of the Social Development Goals. In Kenya, the expansion of mobile money lifted two per cent of households in the country above the poverty line.”[30] However, these findings on the role of M-Pesa in reducing poverty have been contested in a recent paper, arguing that Suri and Jack’s work contains so many serious errors, omissions, logical inconsistencies and flawed methodologies that it is actually correct to say that they have helped to catalyse into existence a largely false narrative surrounding the power of the fin-tech industry to advance the cause of poverty reduction and sustainable development in Africa (and elsewhere).[31]

So far there are two types of contributors on this thread. Those who have an idea about how little they know about crypto and those who have no idea know how little they know about crypto.

Arguing with those who don’t know how little they know is kind of like arguing with Brexit supporters. Frustrating and pointless.

I’m sure you have your own theories about where we are in the current price cycle and why the recent drops in price haven’t had the expected effect on BTC dominance but you are just keeping them to yourself.

I mean, you are aware of the price cycles being closely tied to the halving schedule, aren’t you? Do you think that the current cycle has peaked or are we in the midst of an accumulation phase in a Wyckoff distribution?

Do you think the Flippening is likely in this market cycle given that BTC dominance is stuck at 40%.

BTC mining council: good thing or bad thing?

Arguing with those who don’t know how little they know is kind of like arguing with Brexit supporters. Frustrating and pointless.

Tell me about it!

Good to see we’re finally starting to agree on things here. Nice to get some consensus in this thread.

Blockchain – as a technology in general – undoubtedly has its uses, but my problems with crypto is that anyone can just fork off a new coin whatever they want right?

Consequently, any bet on a particular coin is to wager that somehow it will end up being the ‘true’ coin? In other words, it’s a bet that a particular coin will have the same arbitrary qualities given to it as the fiat currencies the crypto-evangelists so disdain?!

Just my opinion, of course, but you’d be better putting your money into the lottery! 😀

See what I said about people who don’t know how little they know.

Just your opinion which you are entitled to, yes, but your clearly done so little research that your opinion is worthless.

Sorry to be so harsh but it is getting a little frustrating having to explain the same thing over and over again to people who have opinions based on what is basically no knowledge whatsoever.

I’m not going to explain it to you here because, as I said, I would describe myself as knowing how little I know, but I would begin by comparing BTC and ETH and pay particular attention to the planned changes for ETH 2.0.

Then I would take a look at Cardano and Polkadot and, what are effectively their test branches, Kusama and Rune.

Then maybe we can actually have a discussion.

Tell me about it!

Good to see we’re finally starting to agree on things here. Nice to get some consensus in this thread.

I agree. Would you categorise yourself as knowing how little you know or having no idea how little you know?

I’m sure you have your own theories about where we are in the current price cycle

Nope, no interest in that whatsoever. But the belief that you can predict the future from past trends and that those trends will never change would suggest that anyone holding even a tiny amount BC will eventually end up a multi-billionaire and that BC will eventually be worth 100x more than the planet’s total GDP, does seem a bit of a stetch to me.

Do you think the Flippening is likely in this market cycle given that BTC dominance is stuck at 40%.

Neither know nor care!

BTC mining council: good thing or bad thing?

If they can fundamentally change BC so mining is actually efficient eg on a par with Visa transactions then it would be a good thing for the environment. Other than that, don’t really care.

Ah, so you’re definitely in the category of having no idea how little you know.

Ah, so you’re definitely in the category of having no idea how little you know.

If it that makes you feel better, fill your boots!

If it that makes you feel better, fill your boots!

What would make me feel better is, if you are going to insist on always throwing your contributions into this thread, maybe learn something about the subject first.

but your clearly done so little research that your opinion is worthless.

That’s rather defensive don’t you think?

Is it not true that new coins can just be created at will like dogecoin was?

What would make me feel better is,

Just a suggestion, but you could just come up with a better argument?

Here’s a handy guide…

You’ve dropped down to the lowest tier. Try and stay in the top 2 or 3 tiers…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Is it not true that new coins can just be created at will like dogecoin was?

7,800 at the last count and rising…

That’s rather defensive don’t you think?

Exasperation more than anything else. Hence why I wrote this straight after.

Sorry to be so harsh but it is getting a little frustrating having to explain the same thing over and over again to people who have opinions based on what is basically no knowledge whatsoever.

Opinions are fine. Uniformed opinions are annoying.

Is it not true that new coins can just be created at will like dogecoin was?

Sure. However, there are very few coins in the top 100 by market cap that have done this.

Dogecoin was created as a joke. Even the creators don’t hold much because they thought it was going to disappear into obscurity.

Elon Musk, on the other hand, holds a lot and may be the single whale who owns 40% of all Dogecoin.

I’m not sure what his endgame is. At first I thought he was trying to pump the price so he could dump his holdings. Now I think he’s got some sort of deluded idea that he can replace BTC as the dominant coin in the crypto market.

Dogecoin doesn’t even have any active developers which makes Musk tweeting that he was working with Dogecoin developers very suspicious.

Given that this is the BTC cycle where we are seeing institutions getting into crypto I’m hoping his plan will fail spectacularly.

7,800 at the last count and rising…

Indeed. Must be the most frenzied bubble in living memory?

Must be the most frenzied bubble in living memory?

I suspect Tulips were as exciting back in the day….

You’ve dropped down to the lowest tier. Try and stay in the top 2 or 3 tiers…

How about we make a deal. I’ll try to be nicer if you try to be smarter (how’s that for bottom tier)?

Go away, do some research, and come back when you want a discussion rather than constantly stating your opinions as if they were irrefutable facts.

If you are not persuaded by the basic concept of decentralised currencies, you’re not going to spend your time reading everything about them. I know **** all about Scientology but a brief overview means I’m thoroughly unconvinced without having to read the works of L Ron Hubbard.

constantly stating your opinions as if they were irrefutable facts.

I just disagree with you, that’s all.

If my arguments are flawed, just point out my mistakes and make a good counter argument.

If my arguments are flawed, just point out my mistakes and make a good counter argument.

I would, but the problem is that as soon as I do you say stuff like this:

Nope, no interest in that whatsoever.

Neither know nor care!

I mean, I can discuss things all I want but if you have no idea what I’m talking about and you refuse to learn anything it kind of stifles debate.

It’s like trying to discuss Brexit with someone who has no idea what a border is.

If you are not persuaded by the basic concept of decentralised currencies, you’re not going to spend your time reading everything about them.

People seem to be quite happy to take time out of their day to write their opinions about Crypto on an internet forum. Is it too much to ask that you spend, at a minimum, the same amount of time reading about crypto as you do talking about it?

Going back to the original topic, how do you know which cryptocurrencies to buy, those wanting to gamble/make a sound informed investment in the future of payments might find this useful – An examination of the Cryptocurrency Pump and Dump Ecosystem.  Apparently you need to be in the right Telegram or Discord groups to get the “signals” that tell you what’s going to be pumped next. To the moon!

I definitely spend more time reading about it than commenting on this thread! The Reddit bitcoin forum was enough to put me off ‘investing’. Still, it’s an interesting topic and I’m intrigued to see where it all goes. But I guess I don’t care enough to read about the flippening…

Like many bubbles, it will end in tears IMHO. I know anecdotally of suburban Joe Averages putting their money into crypto now, it’s gone way beyond a few dude-bros on Reddit. To the moon!

The Reddit bitcoin forum was enough to put me off ‘investing’.

I can’t comment about that. I never use reddit or twitter to read about crypto although I did look into using them for sentiment analysis for my trading bots.

I find youtube quite useful for general introductions to topics and some analysis. There is a lot of crap out there, though. These are the two channels I would recommend people look at if they are just starting out:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqK_GSMbpiV8spgD3ZGloSw

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRvqjQPSeaWn-uEx-w0XOIg

@footflaps
You know deep down if the government in el Salvador could have made frogs a legal currency and found a way to screw over the general population they would.
It’s greedy and corrupted governments that are the problem in most poor countries.
Bitcoin is just like a hammer a useful tool right now but if something else came along they would use that.

And let’s face being pegged to the mighty dollar has not worked well for south America.

I hope the people pull it off if that want use crypto

And let’s face being pegged to the mighty dollar has not worked well for south America.

It has advantages and disadvanteges. Fundamentally though, I don’t think crypto will make any difference, it doesn’t solve poor governence and rampant corruption which are the bigger issues they face.

I mean, I can discuss things all I want but if you have no idea what I’m talking about and you refuse to learn anything it kind of stifles debate.

Your arguemet was: Do you know what X is? If not the you’re an idiot and not allowed to contribute anymore.

A much better approach would be to explain what X is, why it matters and try and persuade me (or anyone else) on the merits of the case…..

See what I said about people who don’t know how little they know.

Just your opinion which you are entitled to, yes, but your clearly done so little research that your opinion is worthless.

Sorry to be so harsh but it is getting a little frustrating having to explain the same thing over and over again to people who have opinions based on what is basically no knowledge whatsoever.

I’m not going to explain it to you here because, as I said, I would describe myself as knowing how little I know, but I would begin by comparing BTC and ETH and pay particular attention to the planned changes for ETH 2.0.

Then I would take a look at Cardano and Polkadot and, what are effectively their test branches, Kusama and Rune.

None of this rather robust response actually engages with the poster’s points, however.

Consequently, any bet on a particular coin is to wager that somehow it will end up being the ‘true’ coin? In other words, it’s a bet that a particular coin will have the same arbitrary qualities given to it as the fiat currencies the crypto-evangelists so disdain?!

To a degree. People who are ‘in it for the tech’ make the case for XRP or MIOTA being very efficient, or ADA being used in a developing country, and invest accordingly. Perhaps not in the hope that it will be the ‘one true coin’ but at least that it will see wider adoption.

But in 2021 I think much (most?) of the crypto market is now a)speculation and b)outright pump and dump. DOGE is a pile of crap, no-one believes it is useful, and yet it increased by ~ 2000% in 5 months, and now has the 6th biggest ‘market cap’ of all coins. It’s pure gambling and manipulation. Even Shiba Inu, a pointless fork of DOGE, which spiked and crashed again to the tune of thousands of % in a fortnight last month, is still the 33rd biggest coin. No-one believes any of this crap will be the ‘one true coin’ but they do think they can make a quick buck.

For instance, have a read of this reddit thread on r/Cryptocurrency, by someone attempting to warn of scams, and the infinite amount of replies from semi-literate prats who don’t care if something’s a hollow scam so long as they think they can profit from it:

Doge paved way to a lot of scam coins: Beware of SH*T coins like Safemoon, Elongate, safemars, safegalaxy, safe whatever. from CryptoCurrency

It’s a mess. To say the least.

ooh, didn’t know that link would embed like that