20% of all USD ever printed being printed in the last 12 months doesn’t worry you?

No idea whether that’s true but even if it is, it’s not something I’m going to lose any sleep about, and it’s not something I would want to “solve” by devising an entirely arbitrary cryptographic system with no inherent value as an alternative to a USD that’s based on the perceived value of the US economy. If printing money is a problem, the solution is to stop printing money. Many people would say that within reason it isn’t a problem.

an absolutely limited currency stops anyone ‘printing more’ – but that’s not necessarily an issue in itself. printing money has been used to help countries avoid recessions, which would be considered a good thing by most people – its also been demonstrated that printing 20% (which isn’t really true, the m2 money supply compared to quantitative easing in the last year shows it at closer to 3% – $20,000 bn vs $700bn) doesn’t actively devalue a currency compared to things which people actually need to buy – asset prices may have risen (particularly shares) – but that doesn’t really matter. USD itself has not devalued compared to other currencies

so no, USD quantitative easing doesn’t bother me in the slightest. I also don’t have a stash of tin cans nor an emergency grab bag.

so no, USD quantitative easing doesn’t bother me in the slightest. I also don’t have a stash of tin cans nor an emergency grab bag.

I think there are two groups of people investing in crypto now. The first group have been in it from the start. They are true believers and speculators.

A second group who are just joining the party is made up of far more cautious investors who like to hedge their bets. I’m in the second group which is why I’ve spent the last month getting my head around the whole thing.

I’m not going ‘all in’ but I’m also not prepared to live with the risk that I could lose a significant chunk of my savings if this massive injection of money has unforeseen consequences.

my 2p: the worldwide market for a fungible deflationary government independent store of value is a big multiple of that of gold (which itself today is about 12x that of bitcoin, which I think is about half of all crypto, don’t quote me on that).

it will touch every life**.

look down, that barely perceptible murmer beneath your feet is the tectonic plates of finance shifting.

** or it will go to zero and you all get a good laugh. also possible.

(The Tesla thing is just cheap PR and Musk leveraging his voice).

even if you’re sceptical consider putting just a teeny bit in, then you have skin in the game, are paying attention, and are exposed to the possibility however remote of it going 100x. once it’s in kiss it mentally goodbye, don’t expect to see it again as fiat except maybe the last moment before a payee receives it. pretend it’s gone forever.

catch up in year y’all.

I’m not going ‘all in’ but I’m also not prepared to live with the risk that I could lose a significant chunk of my savings if this massive injection of money has unforeseen consequences.

So you’re managing the risk of inflation by betting some of your savings. Not a position I’d take but it’s your money…

the worldwide market for a fungible deflationary government independent store of value is a big multiple of that of gold (which itself today is about 12x that of bitcoin, which I think is about half of all crypto, don’t quote me on that).

it will touch every life**.

I’m not even going to try to pick that apart, but the cryptocurrency bullshit bingo score is impressive.

So you’re managing the risk of inflation by betting some of your savings. Not a position I’d take but it’s your money…

Every investment is a bet. I’m not prepared to bet all my money that this unprecedented injection of money will have no effect.

If you are then you’re braver than me.

all cool @Rio. “2 opinions make a market” as I once heard.

as @brucewee infers we’re all in the market whether we like it or not. to hold fiat is to be long on fiat and short on crypto. it’s all just opinion.

I feel like I need to research cryptocurrency & decide if it really is worth investing in.

But – where the hell do I even start?

I don’t even understand what all this talk of fiat is. What does fiat mean?

Fiat is a state currency that is kind of just representative of something rather than something valuable itself. For example GBP is fiat currency, gold isn’t even though it can be used as currency. You can ‘print’ more GBP, you cant just magic more gold out of nowhere
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Someone can probably do better than that…

But – where the hell do I even start?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania

Does anyone use kraken for crypto trading.Ive just signed up and now got to the verify stage.It wants my address and photo of ID.Website seems to run slow on my iPad too.Just wondering if this is normal and if it’s a good company to use.thanks

I’ve got Kracken. I’ve used it to spend a small amount. The website does run slow, it takes a few seconds for it to update each screen as you navigate around, but it is pretty easy and seems legit. You have to buy and sell via the website, the app just allows you to monitor your account, whereas coinbase allowes you to buy on the app.

I don’t think most of them have the terrible ecological impact of bitcoin but bitcoin really is an absolute disgrace. A proper case of yet another human opening pandora’ box.

Bitcoin currently uses more electricity than the Netherlands. And a lot of it is “mined” in parts of China with cheap coal powered electricity. And for what?

Makes me even more angry than Brexit!

I use Kraken app on my iPhone and I can buy and sell through that. Seems to work fine, but I’m no expert. 🙂

I just got a bit concerned when the site asked me to upload a ID photo,is that normal?Im only thinking of investing 500 pounds so is kraken better than coin base for this.

If anyone wants to use coin base sign up using this link and we’ll both get $10 worth of Bitcoin
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https://www.coinbase.com/join/howett_6
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They also have a few ‘tutorial’ videos, look a bit like promos to me, but they give an idea on a few and you get $50 just for watching them and answering a multiple choice question
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Not the cheapest for day trades so do that and then transfer everything to coin base pro.
.

But – where the hell do I even start?

Not on Youtube or Reddit I hope!

From the suggestions so far on this thread, those places seem to be inhabited by the nut jobs in America who are convinced that either:

1) Civilisation is about to collapse
2) The Federal Government is about to come to Hicksville USA to repossess their trailer park and take everything they own (ie half a dozen confederate flags, a AR-15, a dozen hand guns and a huge pile of porn mags)

And the solution to both these highly probably events is an entirely unstable crypto currency which they’ll invest all of $200 representing their life savings, so the Feds can’t get it.

We’ve even had someone suggest, on this thread, that the UK Government is going to ban people owning Gold so we’d better get into Crypto. Apparently they’d done a lot of research on the subject.

I’ve done a lot of drugs in my time but even I can smell this paranoid delusion horse shit at 50 miles!

If you fancy making a few £ and have a few £ you can loose, then fine, place a bet you might get lucky.

However, whatever the real problem actually is, crypto isn’t the answer!

I just got a bit concerned when the site asked me to upload a ID photo,is that normal?Im only thinking of investing 500 pounds so is kraken better than coin base for this.

All the major exchanges do it now as part of Know Your Customer (KYC) to stop fraudulent activity. Kraken is more security focused so should be OK but there have been exchanges in the past that have leaked customer information which isnt great obviously. Sadly if you want to invest in crypto it is a risk you have to take. Kraken, Binance, Gemini and Coinbase are the major options and none of them perfect

How about this dude. Went all in when it was $1-2k ish. Sold his house, his cars, and even bikes! Then travelled around the world with his family having little adventures and spreading the word. Admittedly, he sounded comfortable before he did all this.

Crypto Family

I guess the real test will be if Hans Gruber demands 50 mil USD? or 1000 BTC?

Apparently they’d done a lot of research on the subject.

I think any research is better than none.

You’re starting to sound quite evangelical yourself. You refuse to learn anything about the subject but your preaching an ideology that has worked reasonably well for the last 50 years or so but is now in danger of no longer being fit for purpose.

You don’t answer the points anyone makes and just make increasingly insulting comments towards anyone who questions your lack of analysis.

There are evangelicals on both sides of this debate and I think you’re definitely finding your religion.

Play nicely guys, this thread is quite interesting and I’m learning some things, let’s just discuss the relevant points and not get personal and get it shut down.

At what point does a hardware wallet become worthwhile? Anyone got any experience with them or recommendations?

The one that seems to jump out for a newbie seems to be the ledger nano s. Can these be operated entirely via a tablet or is a desk tp/laptop needed?

Re. hardware wallets – Nano got in trouble for a data breach recently (only relevant if you bought from them direct, but still…).

Trezor have issues if a criminal gets hold of the physical device itself, but otherwise are about on par with Nanos, though the Trezor code is open source which is reassuring in my view.

I think the Coinkite Coldcard MK3 is widely regarded as the best, but hard to get in the UK (watch out for the old Mk1 ones being sold on eBay, as they’re cr@p).

They’ll all need desktop computer access unless your tablet has a USB socket.

Supplementary question to the above. Is it possible to back one up, just in case?
Hardware wallet under the mattress doesn’t seem any safer than cash? Can still be stolen (less use to their if they don’t have a password but the owner has still lost it), damaged in flood or fire, or just plain lost

Andrewh – read up on recovery seeds.

Hardware wallets!!? Is this something else to learn!? 🙂

If I’m buying through Kraken are my purchases not logged in my account with them?

Each small purchase I made has been confirmed by email by Kraken and has a signature.asc file attached.

At my ripe old age, I’m eventually in a situation of now saving a decent amount each month after years of painful house stuff. Premium Bonds are doing nothing, I’ve a S&S ISA that’s doing ‘ok’ but elements are stuttering with the strong pound at the moment so I’ve stuck in a ‘would be prepared to lose’ amount into a mix of cryptocurrencies. £450 as it stands – I’m not rich and will be a bit cheesed off if I lose it all but the risk/reward is just too tempting. I’ll possibly add more if there’s a crash in one of them!

I’ve done not much more research than look at what US arm of Paypal have adopted and invested in those. Unless you have some insider information, I can’t see any advantage of too much research into various methodologies/principles of the rest of them, because as far as I can see it’s just like most aspects of economics..guesswork. That’s not to say I won’t, but if I put any money into them I really would be expecting to say goodbye to it, or have the balls to get out at any peak.

I’m approaching it as the same as going to a casino. Have some fun by watching your fortunes rise and fall, be prepared to loose it, hope you win big and don’t play with what you can’t lose.

If I’m buying through Kraken are my purchases not logged in my account with them?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mt._Gox

There ain’t no FCFS compensation if your bitcoin exchange goes tits up.

Mt Gox is the classic example of why not to keep things on an exchange, Bitgrail was another failure where I personally got caught out. However, the major exchanges are probably now more safer for many people that a hardware wallet, lots of people still lose there passwords, wallets, seeds and you are equally stuffed. Also consider if you are only buying small amounts, gas fees for Eth based tokens are currently insane and you will lose out on transfer off and on to the exchange. Coinbase are about to have an IPO to be listed on NYSE, it would be disastrous for them to run off with your money or lose it. Do you think Tesla or Blackrock are sticking there crypto on a thumbdrive? No they use a custodial service provide by the likes of Coinbase of Gemini. I would say the larger the amount you have, the more you should consider a hardware wallet but consider the pro’s and con’s of all the options, it isn’t all pro’s.

Sorry another kraken website query,after going through the verification stuff I’m now just wanting to make a deposit.It doesn’t offer any way of depositing by debit card,only via bacs and getting in touch with my bank.Is there a easier way to deposit money into my account or should I use Coinbase.Ive never transferred money via bacs so a little confused about wether this is normal for crypto currency trading

Not used Kraken but you can buy using credit/debit on coinbase easily enough. The BACS thing is pretty normal though.

You can buy by card on kracken, I’ve got a card saved on there. Don’t remember having to do anything specific to set it up?

I did a test transfer to Kraken of £10 and it worked fine (albeit it took a couple of days). Then I transferred all of my pension savings across*

*I didn’t but subsequent small BACS transfers have also been fine, and hours rather than days.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania

To suggest that this is just a short term boom because of a shortage in supply and an increase in demand, like the Tulip Mania was (and the bike industry is right now), is risible…

This is the next tech boom… Like it, don’t like it, it doesn’t matter. It’s gonna happen!

We’ve even had someone suggest, on this thread, that the UK Government is going to ban people owning Gold so we’d better get into Crypto. Apparently they’d done a lot of research on the subject.

It happened in the US in 1933… 🤷🏻‍♂️

Not saying it’s going to happen again, but stranger things have happened!

However, whatever the real problem actually is, crypto isn’t the answer!

Everybody said the same about the World Wide Web… And they were “proven” right to a large degree whilst we were all still on dialup internet! 🤷🏻‍♂️

All the leading economists are predicting a HUGE crash in the traditional markets some time soon that will make the 2008 Global Financial Crisis look like a drop in the ocean, and quite possibly top the 1929 Wall Street crash! The S&P is hugely overvalued, in a currency that in real terms lost 20% or more in value in 2020 (owing to the significant quantitative easing). People realise this already and are looking for alternatives, those who haven’t realised it already will VERY quickly be looking for a solution the moment the market turns.

Nobody is suggesting to go all in like the Bitcoin Family did… But would you miss 1%, 2%, 5% of your spare capital each month? Only you can answer that question honestly, but I suggest whatever the answer is, you consider putting at least some of it into Crypto currency right now and keeping it for 5-10 years…

I’d suggest listening to this podcast for an insight into blockchain. It’s enlightening.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/tim.blog/2017/06/04/nick-szabo/amp/

For what my opinion is worth if you’re tempted by bitcoin you could hedge slightly by investing in something like Argo Blockchain in an ISA.

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Lol has crypto gone mainstream now!

Must have, as stw community hasn’t declared it off limits like they did in 2017. Many predictions back then of it dissappearing into the sunset at 3000.

Always come here for late adoption to anything, that’s for sure.

Use coinbase pro and binance and split your investment across them as both exchanges go a bit wonky when busy and you don’t want your crypto tied up all in one.

Always put in what you can afford to lose. Etc. I think it’s best to trade ranges and come out before the top and bottom of either.

Or just leave the money there. Definitely the best thing to do if you’re not sure how to trade.