Housing bubble.

Why not on the green belt? A lot of it is not very special, not very pretty, and not much use for anything else than building…

There is a big “protect the greenbelt” sentiment around here, it does feel like it translates quite well into “protect my assets” though.

I grew up in the London end of Surrey (Surbiton, FWIW) and moved out to Berkshire in 2004 because for the price of a 1-bed flat in Surbiton we could have a 3-bed house in Berkshire. So I don’t have a huge amount of sympathy for anyone who stamps their feet about how unfair it is they can’t afford to live where they grew up.

There was a young guy on another forum I used to visit, lived in Milton Keynes I think, with his folks. He maintained he’d only ever consider moving out if he could buy somewhere in a specific (expensive, unrealistic) part of London. In the meantime he spent a lot of his disposable income running a Ferrari 355 and moaning that he couldn’t afford to buy a house 🙄

“I think, with his folks. He maintained he’d only ever consider moving out if he could buy somewhere in a specific (expensive, unrealistic) part of London. In the meantime he spent a lot of his disposable income running a Ferrari 355 “

I wouldn’t like to have tested it but I’m sure my parents would have beat the day lights out of me if i bought a Ferrari and tried to continue living at home….

So I don’t have a huge amount of sympathy for anyone who stamps their feet about how unfair it is they can’t afford to live where they grew up.

No sympathy required. You made the decision to move to Berkshire and that is a decision only you could have made.

Had there been enough houses and they were reasonably priced I’m sure you would have stayed though, and that is the point I want to make.

We can make compromises all day long and eventually I imagine I’d end up in the middle of nowhere in a house that cost me £25k. It might not have a roof but hey, I own a house right?

Or we could fix the problem at the source and everyone is happy.

FYI I don’t drive a Ferrari 355 (I wish I did).

I’ve been reading this thread with interest, but it seems to be going in circles now. Enbern – have you written to your MP and Brandon Lewis (housing minister)? Might be a positive step if not.

@thisisnotaspoon Correct however there is a correlation that agrees with my point that it is prohibitively difficult for our age group to own a home.

How old are you?

As I said, the average age is now 29-32. and I suspect the distribution is distorted (and depends on what average you pick), so that those waiting longer than average all come in a rush after 30 as it’s taken everyone 8-10 years of saving to get there and suddenly they’ve got the deposit, wheres people in their 20’s in the north are probably buying before they’re 25.

No ones got it easy, a lot of those people in our parents generation had to deal with 15% interest rates, all very well saying house prices have gone up faster than earnings, but with rates low (and they’ve been in the <4% range for almost 12 years) the affordability of housing probably isn’t all that bad (apart form those lucky 40 somethings who got on the ladder with low prices after the 90’s crash and low interest rates).

This is another issue entirely finbar – there is a big inaction amongst my peers to remedy the situation and unfortunately the more vocal crowd are the ones against house building (for whatever reasons those may be) in this area.

I agree though – it is going around in circles and I’m saying the same things each time. Enough from me.

Embrace the North! 7.12 from Doncaster drops you at King’s Cross at 8.50, houses in Doncaster start at £40k ish for a poor terrace and £250k will get you into all sorts of lovely places. Sorry, enbern, couldn’t get one for £25k but what’s £5k between members of the Audi Owner’s Club.
£30k house on Rightmove, only ten minute’s walk to the station and you might see David Jason filming Open all Hours at the end of your street.

Edit: A grand a month for your season ticket though.

There is a big “protect the greenbelt” sentiment around here

Yeah – lots of opposition to building in some of the villages too – in Effingham there’s a plan to build a new school on scrub land and use the old site for housing but not wanted by locals. Ugly land can go I suppose but the developers want the fields by the nice villages.

@midlifecrashes Consider me very impressed! That commute time is only about 10 minutes more than it takes me now! And the house has a roof!!!

Forget everything I’ve said – I’m going to Doncaster!!!

A grand a month for your season ticket though.

That’s alright – my rent covers that and I get a cheeky payrise!

You really can’t see that by investing in the other regions people would be more likely to move and so there would be a greater supply of houses in the SE?

That wouldn’t change the supply of houses in the SE. It would change demand for houses in the SE. If we are going to get snooty about “supply/demand equations”, we could at least be accurate…

😆

Just to add another bit of evidence to the lunacy. Mate bought a 3 bed semi in central dorking requiring serious work for £410k, have been pricing up extensions etc… but not proceeded, luckily as they found out they are expecting twins and now have to move to a cheaper area to accommodate a bigger family. Re-valued a couple of weeks ago at £525k. All he has done is paint half of the rooms and sand the floor…..

its the same for everyone, not just ftbs. Im nearly 40, just recently moved from west country to surrey, cos wife got new job, got a half size house, and gone from 0 mortgage to 3x bigger mortgage than I ever had before, having been on the “ladder” since 2000….but we have chosen to live here and understand the costs….

So what do you know that they don’t?

That I paid a totally different price fit my house than the land registry and zoopla think, and that my house is a totally different size to the neighbours house, which sold for less, but made zoopla think prices were rocketing up…

That I paid a totally different price fit my house than the land registry and zoopla think

Sounds like stamp duty fraud…

LMAO, Zoopla reckons my house value has increased by nearly a third over 5 years. Aye, okay then…

It’s not just SE that has a problem with house prices – York Harrogate etc is all very expensive compared to incomes not to mention most North Yorkshire market towns

Edit: A grand a month for your season ticket though.

and 3hrs a day on the train…that’s 30 days a year before delays.

A lot of people do that sort of thing though. When I was working in London my commute from Surrey included 1 hour train ride inc the usual delays; was OKish when I worked near Waterloo but a struggle when I had to add a tube ride to get to Kings Cross.

Funny thing is, since basing myself outside of the UK. I’ve sort of lost interest in having a house. If i’d come here 10 years sooner (before i joined the world of work) i’d probably still be renting and i’d have no issue with it. Probably a third of my peers are in rented accommodation, and they are mostly of the generation would would have been first time buyers (UK) in the late 80s!

I understand most of Europe is the same.

Less interest in getting on the property ladder and more into having a home.

Less interest in getting on the property ladder and more into having a home.

I’m not all that bothered about owning, I’m more bothered about the cost.

Aside from the whole “wasted money” argument (which I’m not going to get into because I’m not sure I agree or disagree with it), it is much cheaper as a monthly expense to have a mortgage than it is to rent around here, forgetting the price of the houses and the deposit cost.

“I understand most of Europe is the same.”

could be to do with alot of europe having different rules on rent increases and turfing tennents out…

long term leases etc…

that was my bigest grumble with renting no control over if you would still be living there next year thus no real incentive to become part of the community.

Aside from the whole “wasted money” argument (which I’m not going to get into because I’m not sure I agree or disagree with it), it is much cheaper as a monthly expense to have a mortgage than it is to rent around here, forgetting the price of the houses and the deposit cost.

You’d be surprised compared to the rest of the UK the margins on rents in the SE are tiny.

I lived in Teesside 2011-2012, the house (nice area of a quiet village, terrace house, garden and garage) was worth about £80k, the rent was £550/month (6.8%).

A flat in Wokingham rent’s for about £1000/month and costs about £250k (4.8%).

(and before someone says it, wages in Wokingham are £450/month more than Teesside in pretty much any job above minimum wage)

turfing tennents out.

No arguments with that. Revolting northern muck.

it is much cheaper as a monthly expense to have a mortgage than it is to rent around here, forgetting the price of the houses and the deposit cost.

signed disillusioned of the south east.

The house/mortgage cost pales in insignificance to that of which is decoration/maintenance/upgrades and just general refurb that your landlord used to take care of.

I’m not really looking to jump into the argument again but from some mortgage checks that myself and my partner have done a mortgage would be looking at somewhere in the region of £850-£1000 a month tops and our rent currently sits at around £1500 and I would imagine the house that the mortgage is attached to would be bigger than where we are currently.

I’m sure your house doesn’t cost you £500 a month in maintenance and if it does – unlucky mate.

enbern

You work for the NHS, so apply here:

Borders General Hospital.

http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/20/30/203005_0ecc5a28.jpg

See those hills behind (Eildons), see Strava for segments 🙂

I don’t work for the NHS, my partner does – those hills look lovely and I’ll point her that way 😆

Sounds like stamp duty fraud…

Sounds like a housing developer trade in / gifted deposit scheme. 8)

“I’m not really looking to jump into the argument again but from some mortgage checks that myself and my partner have done a mortgage would be looking at somewhere in the region of £850-£1000 a month tops and our rent currently sits at around £1500 and I would imagine the house that the mortgage is attached to would be bigger than where we are currently.

I’m sure your house doesn’t cost you £500 a month in maintenance and if it does – unlucky mate.”

In which case im back to having no sympathy – just buy a house if it makes so much financial sense …… yesterday they were all 500k and too small … today we can get one thats bigger than you currently have and it only costs 850-1k a month.

and yes move near BR – great riding round there – we travel down there often to ride 😀

Nothings changed – still need a huge deposit and enough of a wage to beat the 4:1 lending rule – which I don’t meet so I wouldn’t be lent enough money to buy one around here anyway.

I’m saying I don’t want to be stuck renting forever because it would work out cheaper as a MONTHLY EXPENSE to have a mortgage vs renting.

Regardless I can see myself getting dragged back into an argument here – let’s agree to disagree.

We can both agree that those hills look awesome and I bet none of us here would mind living near there.

I’m sure your house doesn’t cost you £500 a month in maintenance and if it does – unlucky mate.

You

Would

Be

Amazed

Just totting up the big bills of the last 6 months probably matches your estimate for the mortgage. That is the exception rather than the rule. But it would have been a cold dark winter if the heating and electrics hadn’t been done! And those bills don’t include my own time in doing a lot of the work!

so for your maths to work and your monthly expense to be lower out you need to have a 300k deposit…. – also known as a whole house in much of the country.

I didn’t provide any maths so there is nothing to work out.

Just totting up the big bills of the last 6 months probably matches your estimate for the mortgage. That is the exception rather than the rule. But it would have been a cold dark winter if the heating and electrics hadn’t been done! And those bills don’t include my own time in doing a lot of the work!

As I said – unlucky mate. My parents house hasn’t had anything go wrong or any unexpected expense besides a new washing machine in 10 years – British Gas insurance covers the boiler at £9.99 a month, sounds like it would be ideal for you?

EDIT: As a quick edit as well – if what is being said is true and it’s costing you £1000 a month in repairs it only compounds my argument further that it’s absurd how much housing costs in London/SE – I’d also love to know how my landlord is paying his mortgage if he’s only making 500 quid off me each month.

The house/mortgage cost pales in insignificance to that of which is decoration/maintenance/upgrades and just general refurb that your landlord used to take care of.

Yes but when you add in the value of your asset after 25 years…

Yes but when you add in the value of your asset after 25 years…

And what happens if prices don’t go up like they have done in the past?

All the baby boomers will be selling up over the next 10-15 years to either fund their nursing home care or to release the equity to either use as their pension or give to their kids so they can buy their own place…

Prices are only going up at the moment because a) a tidal wave of corrupt foreign money has poured into London from 2012 onwards b) repeated government subsidies from 2013 onwards to stop the market from crashing. Neither of these things will go on forever.
Osborne has already realised that he’ll fail to get the vote of the under 40s in 5 years time if they’re still renting and unable to start a family…
He also realises that in 10 years time, the MPs in Parliament will be the generation that are currently priced out of housing and their agenda around house prices is likely to be different from the current one given their current experience.. by all accounts they’re already learning the lessons their idiot parents forgot about living a life in debt…

The idea that UK house prices will always and forever go up is largely one based on experience of the last 20 years since we forgot about the 1989 bust. It’s more akin to a religious belief than a fact/data-driven view which is why it’s so damn hard to get people who believe it to think differently!

And what happens if prices don’t go up like they have done in the past?

Doesn’t matter. You still have an asset, assuming you’ve got a repayment mortgage. Even if prices drop to 10% of their 2007 value I’ve still got a house worth £25k. If I’d rented I’d have nothing.

it is much cheaper as a monthly expense to have a mortgage than it is to rent around here, forgetting the price of the houses and the deposit cost.

But thats like saying buying a £100k Porsche with a £99k deposit is cheaper than buying a £15k Fiesta with no deposit.

You can’t ‘forget’ the deposit bit really. Or the stamp duty. Or the solicitors fees. Or the mortgage fee etc. – people with mortgage have had to ‘pay’ these costs as well.

Even if prices drop to 10% of their 2007 value I’ve still got a house worth £25k. If I’d rented I’d have nothing.

So, you think if the proposition to first time buyers was ‘take out this massive loan and in 10 years time you’ll have a house worth only 10% of that loan, with most of it still to pay back’ – that people would be buying 😯

In any case you wouldn’t have a house worth anything – you’d be living in a house owned by the bank and a massive amount of debt to pay off!

Like I said – quasi-religious-belief type irrationality underpins the UK housing market, not rationale assessment, if that’s the best business case you can come up with!

Ever watched Life of Brian? They had a field day with this kind of thinking…