Housing bubble.

I would imagine you are correct in regards to investment firms picking up the glut of cheap houses – however I only need the one.

So does everyone else in London with good skills & making a decent salary but stuck renting, that’s the problem… whereas the reality is that even in the current climate there are plenty of investors looking at rent prices & thinking there’s still more money to be squeezed out of them yet…

I do feel sorry for people in your situation – the easy answer is gtf out of London, I’ve said it & so have plenty of others but I also understand it’s much easier said than done just to up sticks & move your entire life across the country… although that watermill place a couple of pages back did look tempting!

“Sorry but mobile phones, a car, a laptop, a fast internet connection etc are basic essentials now if you want to stand any chance of holding down a decent job”

if your self employed.

So take the 2 bed flat mentioned on the last page for £220k. Still not chump change, but the mortgage will be about the same or less than the Studio flat rent.

Shall IGMC now?

I do feel sorry for people in your situation – the easy answer is gtf out of London, I’ve said it & so have plenty of others but I also understand it’s much easier said than done just to up sticks & move your entire life across the country… although that watermill place a couple of pages back did look tempting!

I appreciate that but I’m not asking for people to feel sorry for me – I’m in a very good position, I work in a high growth profession and it puts me in better stead than most.

What I’m asking for is some genuine action in regards to this – we need FAR FAR FAR more houses being built!!

What is essentially being asked is anyone under the age of 30 without wealthy parents need to GTFO of London/SE as soon as they can – we’re talking hundreds of thousands of people (if not millions), not just me.

cornholio98 – Member

nonsense

Are you a 18-21 year old currently seeking employment?

What is essentially being asked is anyone under the age of 30 without wealthy parents need to GTFO of London/SE as soon as they can – we’re talking hundreds of thousands of people (if not millions), not just me.

I’m under 30.
My parents whilst not on the breadline, their contribution to the house buying process was enough to hire the man with a van (and I didn’t ask for it or absolutely need it, but it did make the long wait to payday a bit more comfortable than it would have been).
I’ve made it work.

I did spend a lot of time looking at that watermill though! so I won’t deny the temptation to leave wasn’t strong!

But what you’re saying boils down to the fact I’ve spent the last 10years doing what it sounds like you’re about to have to do, and you want a shortcut that involves me going bankrupt so you can have my house!

hexhamstu – Member

cornholio98 – Member

nonsense

Are you a 18-21 year old currently seeking employment?

Not any more? What is your point?

I’m under 30. I’ve made it work.

That is fantastic and encouraging to hear. But you are the exception and most definitely not the rule.

The issue stands with the difficulty achieving it.

There are no “starter” houses here. There are houses, and that is the issue.

But what you’re saying boils down to the fact I’ve spent the last 10years doing what it sounds like you’re about to have to do, and you want a shortcut that involves me going bankrupt so you can have my house!

I can understand how what I said would be construed that way – what I was implying that perhaps for my personal situation a crash wouldn’t be the end of the world. I don’t want your house.

That is fantastic and encouraging to hear. But you are the exception and most definitely not the rule.

No, I’d say I’m in the majority.

Just googled it, the average age for a fist time buyer is the SE is 29, London it’s 32. So actually I’m Mr 50%, neither a majority or a minority, next step 2.4 kids.

What I’m asking for is some genuine action in regards to this – we need FAR FAR FAR more houses being built!!

What is essentially being asked is anyone under the age of 30 without wealthy parents need to GTFO of London/SE as soon as they can – we’re talking hundreds of thousands of people (if not millions), not just me.

The trouble is that there isn’t the space to build that many houses in the SE unless you build on green belt. The houses at Wisley airport that you mentioned will never be built with this current government. What we need is decentralisation of our economy but that is extremely difficult and can take generations. Go to other parts of the UK and places like Newcastle you see lots of house building, we need the economy to follow.

Just googled it, the average age for a fist time buyer is the SE is 29, London it’s 32.

Where was your source and how recent was it? I will point you to this.

It’s from Shelter and created in March 2015. It pretty much disagrees with everything you’ve said and proves how distorted the house prices have become in regards to age. In fact I would encourage anyone that disagrees it’s hard for a younger person to get on the housing ladder to read it – it’s quite eye opening.

The trouble is that there isn’t the space to build that many houses in the SE unless you build on green belt. The houses at Wisley airport that you mentioned will never be built with this current government. What we need is decentralisation of our economy but that is extremely difficult and can take generations. Go to other parts of the UK and places like Newcastle you see lots of house building, we need the economy to follow.

So it is a government policy issue that needs to be resolved and nothing to do with my or my generations unwillingless to work for it which is what is being implied by most in this thread..

And a quote from the article referenced above:

The average number of first time buyers each year since 2007 is around half of the average level between 1980 and 2003. According to the Council of Mortgage Lenders, assistance for first time buyers (such as the so-called “bank of mum and dad”) is now far more common, increasing from 31% in June quarter 2005 to 66% in June quarter 2011. The increase in assistance for first time buyers under 30 was even stronger, with 77% buying a home with some form of assistance in 2011.
This significant decline in first time buyer activity has flowed through to lower rates of home ownership for younger age groups, which has declined since the early 1990s. The decline has been particularly acute for 25-34 year olds. The proportion of 25-34 year olds owning their own home was 67% in 1991, but has declined to 36% in 2013-14. The decline was even stronger for those aged 16-24, amongst whom the number of homeowners has declined dramatically from
36% in 1991 to 9% in 2013-14.

😀 At 30 i was effectively homeless. Or couchsurfing.

And what London/SE does NOT needed is a lot more people living there, sucking investment out of the rest of the UK

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/aug/07/london-gets-24-times-as-much-infrastructure-north-east-england

Other projects in the capital including tube improvements mean that £5,426 will have been spent on each resident of London compared to £223 on those in the north-east region.

i raise you march and england centric and give you august and uk wide….

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mortgageshome/article-3184763/Young-homebuyers-st.html

i decided i didnt want to rent for the rest of my life and went and worked in africa for 2 years age 23 – thats how i made it work- got to see some of africa, got to see some sights i wish i hadnt and i got to see some sights ill never forget.

enbern

I don’t think that it is unwillingness to work but inflexibility. I can fully understand that you may not want to move away from you friends and family in order to find somewhere to live. In a perfect world you would not have to.
Trouble is people have to move for work or to be closer to better schools etc. At this time it appears that the location you are in ticks every box except affordability for purchase so compromise will be needed.
The South East is a mad place to try to start out…

And what London/SE does NOT needed is a lot more people living there, sucking investment out of the rest of the UK

Politicians spend more money in London, people move there. People move there, so politicians spend more money there. Politicians spend more money in London, people move there. People move there so politicians spend more money there.

And so it continues for eternity.

Once again this is a policy fault of the government and does not implicate fault on myself or my generation AT ALL.

The South East is a mad place to try to start out…

You’re telling me!! Unfortunately (or fortunately? I don’t know..) for me it’s the hand that was dealt.

I have aging parents who were lucky (wise?) enough to buy a property down here when it was cheap and thus they are staying put. I won’t be leaving my family and friends and if it means I have to find £500k for a house then so be it.

It doesn’t have to be that way though. They could just build more starter houses..

In the place that I was born and grew up, where every single person I know on this planet lives and where my job is based.
Surrey.

Life sucks, I too was born there….as an NHS employee I can’t afford anything more than a shoe box there now….but to be honest why would I want to live there!?

Surrey is busy, overcrowded, dirty, expensive etc….broaden your horizons and you’ll realise that there are many many places around the country better than bloody Surrey!
If you were to move somewhere else you’d find that you see as much of your friends and family as you did before, we certainly have done, people love coming to stay and everyone has cars so getting around is a doddle….the UK is tiny, it’s not like having to trek across Australia to see friends!

Part of growing up is branching out in different directions, I have friends all over the country and now abroad too…..life would be very boring if we’d all just stayed in Surrey….now I can holiday in Oz with friends on the cheap, friends can come to Wales and stay with me and we can go hiking and cycling together….life’s good, I couldn’t imagine anything more boring than spending my adult life where I grew up.

Surrey is busy, overcrowded, dirty, expensive etc….broaden your horizons and you’ll realise that there are many many places around the country better than bloody Surrey!

I don’t disagree with you but home is where the heart is etc etc

I’m not totally against moving elsewhere but it isn’t a solution to the issue.

The issue is there isn’t enough being done to make sure there are a good and steady influx of new homes for first time buyers in London and South East.

It has nothing to do with my ambitions to stay here or my lack of willingless to move or my inflexibility to find work elsewhere.

The problem is purely there isn’t enough houses and a massive inaction on behalf of the government to do anything at all about it.

“a massive inaction on behalf of the government to do anything at all about it.”

in response too –

“Politicians spend more money in London, people move there. People move there, so politicians spend more money there. Politicians spend more money in London, people move there. People move there so politicians spend more money there.”

perhaps….. just thinking outloud.

Betterer?

Where was your source and how recent was it? I will point you to this.

Google something along the lines of “average age first time buyer in surrey”, googling it again doesn’t throw up the same local paper article, but plenty of national press articles from last year say it’s 29 nationally 32 in London so it’s probably taken from the same report. That shelter report doesn’t actually give an age figure just proportions of people in various age brackets owning their own home.

Moving from the place you know isn’t that scary. We did it eight years ago, and went from a too small house in a rough estate of Nottingham to a just about adequate modest house with a mountain behind it and a loch in front of it. We didn’t know anyone at all when we moved, and now we know more people than I can count. OK, both our jobs are ones that can be anywhere, which isn’t the case for all (although I’m not sure why lots more can’t be these days), so I appreciate it’s not as easy for everyone. But there’s life outside of Surrey, sometimes a better one.

perhaps….. just thinking outloud.

@trail_rat In response to general infrastructure investment and not directly housing.

Betterer?

@scotroutes You aren’t necessarily wrong but again it is a policy issue and not a “young generation slacking” issue.

That shelter report doesn’t actually give an age figure just proportions of people in various age brackets owning their own home.

@thisisnotaspoon Correct however there is a correlation that agrees with my point that it is prohibitively difficult for our age group to own a home.

Surrey is busy, overcrowded, dirty, expensive etc….broaden your horizons and you’ll realise that there are many many places around the country better than bloody Surrey!

… and did I mention that there’s a neat little duplex not far from here going at a snip?

enbern – how about looking south towards Crawley, a lot cheaper down there.

At no point have I said it is. I’m merely trying to point out that building more homes is repeating the past/current mistakes – and you can see how that is working out.

how about looking south towards Crawley, a lot cheaper down there.

I think this is where I will inevitably end up. Somewhere “around” Surrey that is still close enough to London to commute.

At no point have I said it is. I’m merely trying to point out that building more homes is repeating the past/current mistakes – and you can see how that is working out.

No you are right apologies, you haven’t actually said that but it’s been implied quite a few times throughout the thread by others.

I can’t understand how building more homes would do anything but good in relation to the house prices in London/SE though – the lack of housing is the reason it’s become so expensive.

@trail_rat In response to general infrastructure investment and not directly housing.

i know what you meant , i was making a point that the two might be related.

yes they want the infrastructure in london they want people to be able to move about london and to get to london BUT they dont want you actually living in london because its already over crowded.

although its a crap policy as all it does is prices out your service workers.

See that supply/demand equation?

yes they want the infrastructure in london they want people to be able to move about london and to get to london BUT they dont want you actually living in london.

And this relates back to the original quote – if they were to invest more in the North then it would become far more attractive and perhaps start bridging the divide.

Doesn’t solve my issue of lack of southern housing though unfortunately.

See that supply/demand equation?

I understand supply and demand. In this case there is a lack of supply and an abundance of demand – hence the expensive prices. Build more houses and maybe it will even out and I won’t be in this thread complaining about ridiculous house prices.

You really can’t see that by investing in the other regions people would be more likely to move and so there would be a greater supply of houses in the SE?

You really can’t see that by investing in the other regions people would be more likely to move and so there would be a greater supply of houses in the SE?

I need a house now – not in 30 years.

Great thread and very interesting read, thanks.

I’ve considered contributing many points on this debated issue, the illusion, BTL, lenders (I.e. the city) being the only winners, ever – this was why the illusion was created in the first place. And many others.

However, if I were to choose one contribution to offer from the many, to this thread…

enbern: You got to get out more dude. The world is a big place and the universe even bigger. Do your soul a favour 8)

You got to get out more dude. The world is a big place and the universe even bigger. Do your soul a favour

I appreciate the advice. In every other aspect of my life I have immense satisfaction.

I’ve got a lovely woman, a great family, the best hobby in the world in bikes and a good bunch of people to have debates with on this forum.

Unfortunately I don’t have a house and this thread has seen my rage 🙂

For me, far more should be done to move industry, business parks and by default people out of the South East.

As others have said, there’s loads of cheap unoccupied houses around the country….but sadly no jobs for people to work if they buy one of those.

The government should be offering tax breaks to firms that are willing to setup outside of the South East, the government could contribute to relocation costs for those prepared to move which would surely be cheaper than trying to help people buy in the South East!?

We have a lovely country in general but a bizarre obsession with the South East, that photo above if the Surrey Hills is wonderful and I’ve enjoyed riding that area, sadly because it’s the only nice hilly bit of countryside down south it gets busy, trails get pulled down and you can ride from one side to the other in less that a day…..i can ride the same stuff in Wales, but not see another soul, build what I want and know it’ll still be there in a month and spend days eexploring areas that dwarf the Surrey Hills….seriously folks, if the government won’t help then do what you can to relocate somewhere better and more affordable….i don’t earn what I was earning a year ago but I don’t need to, there’s no bars, cinemas, restaurants etc on my doorstep like there was in the South, it’s a simpler way of living and far less stressful.

I need a house now – not in 30 years.

Trouble is this is a problem that has taken a couple of generations to create to its current stage, and it is a problem that will take a couple of generations to fix, from when action is actually taken.

There are two main reasons why politicians aren’t really motivated to take action, primarily because their political careers will be well over by the time benefits of action are reaped, and secondly it is the banking industry and financiers who benefit most from inflated housing prices.

yes they want the infrastructure in london they want people to be able to move about london and to get to london BUT they dont want you actually living in london because its already over crowded.

As far as I can tell, the only solution is technological.

People need to stop fannying about and commit to remote working, where it’s possible (and it is, for a large number of us). And ‘oh it’s not the same blabla’ that’s not an excuse. Make it work. Get used to it.

Physical commuting causes no end of massive problems with expensive solutions. There’s a massive environmental cost of all that transport – the fuel and the making of the extra cars – and then there’s the cost of all those roads.

As a side effect, we’d be able to live wherever we felt like. We could move to the countryside without crowding around the good transport links. That would take a massive amount of money out of London and spread it into rural communities -and it’d save a huge amount of money in the process. House prices would plummet in London, but the rest of the country could easily accommodate the extras.

Downside is slashed fuel duty income.

Build more houses – just not on the Green Belt please 🙂

Airport policies (well taxes) have pushed people SE.

When they changed the passenger tax to per aircraft rather than per person it made it uneconomical to fly a half empty plane to a regional airport. This reduced the amount of flights to and from smaller airports and pushed them SE. This makes business travel easier from the SE so more attractive to certain businesses.
Changing planes when going on holiday is a PITA so you also add some desirability to the region because of that.

Poor planning in the late 90’s has given us the situation we have now. Good planning might help us in another 15-20 years…

Build more houses – just not on the Green Belt please

Why not on the green belt? A lot of it is not very special, not very pretty, and not much use for anything else than building. It’s only there to stop towns merging.
A relic from the 60s that’s past it’s sell by date.